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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Rumours & Speculation => Topic started by: herman on May 23, 2019, 10:36:50 AM

Title: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 23, 2019, 10:36:50 AM
If Horton's contract is still on the Leafs next season, we are most assuredly using LTIR. Is there any downside to just loading up on LTIR contracts to pad the our artificial cap ceiling to essentially cover Marleau's deal (and maybe pick up draft picks)? Clarke MacArthur, Marian Gaborik, David Clarkson, for example. Hyman and Dermott will be on the LTIR to start the season as well.

We have little to no performance bonuses this coming season, and Marleau's contract is off the books 2020, so we shouldn't care about roll over.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 10:44:26 AM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 10:36:50 AM
If Horton's contract is still on the Leafs next season, we are most assuredly using LTIR. Is there any downside to just loading up on LTIR contracts to pad the our artificial cap ceiling to essentially cover Marleau's deal (and maybe pick up draft picks)? Clarke MacArthur, Marian Gaborik, David Clarkson, for example. Hyman and Dermott will be on the LTIR to start the season as well.

We have little to no performance bonuses this coming season, and Marleau's contract is off the books 2020, so we shouldn't care about roll over.

Well, one obvious downside is the 50 contract limit, which LTIR players still count towards. Secondly, it doesn't really artificially pad the ceiling - the functional amount of cap space the Leafs would be able to use would remain the same, they'd just be paying out more real dollars to guys who aren't on the roster.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 23, 2019, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 10:44:26 AM
Well, one obvious downside is the 50 contract limit, which LTIR players still count towards. Secondly, it doesn't really artificially pad the ceiling - the functional amount of cap space the Leafs would be able to use would remain the same, they'd just be paying out more real dollars to guys who aren't on the roster.

Ah yes, that pesky limit. The Leafs are at 37 before filling out the roster, so 43 before addressing any Marlies or prospect signings. There's probably room for one if we want a pick and another team is desperate to not deal with insurance or paying out an injury.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 11:22:15 AM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 10:54:05 AM
Ah yes, that pesky limit. The Leafs are at 37 before filling out the roster, so 43 before addressing any Marlies or prospect signings. There's probably room for one if we want a pick and another team is desperate to not deal with insurance or paying out an injury.

Unless there's a really good draft pick coming back, it's not really worth it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 23, 2019, 03:03:12 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 11:22:15 AM
Unless there's a really good draft pick coming back, it's not really worth it.

Ah, okay.

On to the next thing:

Paul Fenton is shipping out ready to play parts. Minnesota is looking for right-shot scoring options with youth and speed.

Kapanen+ for Spurgeon?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 03:03:12 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 23, 2019, 11:22:15 AM
Unless there's a really good draft pick coming back, it's not really worth it.

Ah, okay.

On to the next thing:

Paul Fenton is shipping out ready to play parts. Minnesota is looking for right-shot scoring options with youth and speed.

Kapanen+ for Spurgeon?

If they can clear the cap space to make it work, and get Spurgeon on a reasonably priced, reasonable term extension, I'm in. If not, then I'd save Kapanen to use in a deal for someone who has more years as a Leaf ahead of him.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2019, 03:08:58 PM
If the rumours of them looking at Kessel are true then that tells me that they're going for it in the next 2 seasons. Gotta think that means Spurgeon isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 23, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
Fenton has made assurances to Spurgeon, but I'm looking at their roster and I don't know what he thinks he can do to climb out of the mushy middle.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on May 23, 2019, 07:59:15 PM
I don't know about Kessel in Minnesota; him and Boudreau might destroy some buffets all over town
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on May 24, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
Fenton has made assurances to Spurgeon, but I'm looking at their roster and I don't know what he thinks he can do to climb out of the mushy middle.

Spurgeon at 30 in 2019 for Kapanen at 23? I don't really like the sound of that....
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 24, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Bender on May 24, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
Fenton has made assurances to Spurgeon, but I'm looking at their roster and I don't know what he thinks he can do to climb out of the mushy middle.

Spurgeon at 30 in 2019 for Kapanen at 23? I don't really like the sound of that....

That's a fair point; at a certain place in the build, you do need to make a push to try to get over the hump though.

Kapanen isn't going to stay cheap (breakaway goals) and I'd argue that his team contributions next year probably aren't going to outweigh adding a 1RD even if only for a year. I get that this is exactly what most people want to say about Nylander, but for me (and Dubas it seems) Nylander = elite and Kapanen = pretty good but mostly replaceable (hello Trevor Moore, Ilya Mikheyev).
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 10:41:26 AM
I think they should take a hard look at moving Kadri as a way to sign Kapanen and/or Johnson before they get offer sheeted.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 24, 2019, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 10:41:26 AM
I think they should take a hard look at moving Kadri as a way to sign Kapanen and/or Johnson before they get offer sheeted.

And then what? Move Nylander to the middle and have just a single legit top-6 winger in the line-up?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 11:50:29 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 24, 2019, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 10:41:26 AM
I think they should take a hard look at moving Kadri as a way to sign Kapanen and/or Johnson before they get offer sheeted.

And then what? Move Nylander to the middle and have just a single legit top-6 winger in the line-up?


Kapanen and Johnsson aren't?

And yes, Nylander plays better as a center.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 24, 2019, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 11:50:29 AM
Kapanen and Johnsson aren't?

And yes, Nylander plays better as a center.

They're sub-50 point players despite spending most of their time with Matthews. I think that they're good 3rd liners who can certainly look not completely out of place in the top-6. We're probably at a semantics battle, but the way I see it is if one of them is the 2nd best player on a top-6 line then that line is in trouble. Is this even really debatable? Didn't we spend a decent amount of time this season and especially in the playoffs talking about how they were holding Matthews back on that line?

I definitely like Nylander as a centre, but I'm not sure I'd say he plays better there. His best hockey has come with Matthews as his centre. And Matthews' best hockey has come with Nylander as his winger. Don't over think things, just keep them together.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 24, 2019, 01:06:50 PM
I'd say the only way to move Kadri would be if they felt Brooks, Engvall or someone else on the Marlies was ready. Not sure they do yet for a 3rd line role. I do agree with ZBBM and also think Kappy and Johnsson are top 6 talents and will only get better. Let's keep in mind that both just finished their 1st full NHL seasons and by all accounts did well. I see no reason for both not to keep progressing. Now instead of arguing about the top 6 thing, let's also keep in mind that not everyone who plays in the top 6 is a top 6 forward. Hyman has been in a top 6 position for 3 years now and not many witch about it. Both Kappy and Johnsson have better numbers then him and can do just as good a job defensively.
I don't mind Nylander as a centre but he can't play with a Brown and Marleau type wingers. Fact is, no one can other then McDavid. Nylander needs a shooter or two with him as he's the puck carrier.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Stressing about the offseason roster.

Worries:
How our D is shaping up
Losing Kappi/Johnsson
Having to trade a Nylander to make it all fit
No $ for July 1
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 24, 2019, 01:20:14 PM
Quote from: herman on May 24, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
That's a fair point; at a certain place in the build, you do need to make a push to try to get over the hump though.

Kapanen isn't going to stay cheap (breakaway goals) and I'd argue that his team contributions next year probably aren't going to outweigh adding a 1RD even if only for a year. I get that this is exactly what most people want to say about Nylander, but for me (and Dubas it seems) Nylander = elite and Kapanen = pretty good but mostly replaceable (hello Trevor Moore, Ilya Mikheyev).

I'm all for moving Kapanen - I think his decision making/instincts/hockey IQ/whatever you want to call it will keep him from being much more than what he already is, which is a good but not great 2nd line winger. He's not a player you absolutely need to hold on to, but, he's a valuable trade chip. So, I'm not on board with moving him for a short-term piece, like Spurgeon would be right now. If he's moved, it has to be for someone with more than one year left on his contract.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on May 24, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Stressing about the offseason roster.

Worries:
How our D is shaping up
Losing Kappi/Johnsson
Having to trade a Nylander to make it all fit
No $ for July 1

I think we're actually in decent shape and losing one of Johnsson or Kapanen isn't a big deal when we can get something back in trade. We have one year of pain next year and going forward we have a bunch of cap space and Sandin/Liljegren might be able to make the team in a year and a bit. I think we'll have a few more bits solved at that point, although you have to start wondering how long Freddy can be Freddy for, he's 30 this year.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 24, 2019, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Stressing about the offseason roster.

Worries:
How our D is shaping up
Losing Kappi/Johnsson
Having to trade a Nylander to make it all fit
No $ for July 1

Positives
D is going to be fine, we have a lot of meat and potatoes on the farm. Just going to be young and very fast.
Won't lose either Kapi or Mango.
Not trading Nylander, however Brown and Kadri, Zaitzev may go and Gardiner is going.  Bridge deals for both Kapi and Mango (sounds like a new detective show).
A team without Cap problems not doing their job or competitive right now.

Somehow I hope that Dubas can fix the Marleau Conundrum (a hockey relativity problem that Einstein probably couldn't solve).

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Highlander on May 24, 2019, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Stressing about the offseason roster.

Worries:
How our D is shaping up
Losing Kappi/Johnsson
Having to trade a Nylander to make it all fit
No $ for July 1

Positives
D is going to be fine, we have a lot of meat and potatoes on the farm. Just going to be young and very fast.
Won't lose either Kapi or Mango.
Not trading Nylander, however Brown and Kadri, Zaitzev may go and Gardiner is going.  Bridge deals for both Kapi and Mango (sounds like a new detective show).
A team without Cap problems not doing their job or competitive right now.

Somehow I hope that Dubas can fix the Marleau Conundrum (a hockey relativity problem that Einstein probably couldn't solve).
All of your suggestions are obviously easier said than done.

D won't be fine, 2 rookies into the lineup won't be pretty.
No one wants Zaitzev or Brown at their cap hits.
Mango and Kappi probably don't want bridge deals.
Marleau will be on the cap.
Oh yeah, that Marner contract too.

I wish I could fast forward to October to see how this plays out.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on May 24, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Highlander on May 24, 2019, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 24, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Stressing about the offseason roster.

Worries:
How our D is shaping up
Losing Kappi/Johnsson
Having to trade a Nylander to make it all fit
No $ for July 1

Positives
D is going to be fine, we have a lot of meat and potatoes on the farm. Just going to be young and very fast.
Won't lose either Kapi or Mango.
Not trading Nylander, however Brown and Kadri, Zaitzev may go and Gardiner is going.  Bridge deals for both Kapi and Mango (sounds like a new detective show).
A team without Cap problems not doing their job or competitive right now.

Somehow I hope that Dubas can fix the Marleau Conundrum (a hockey relativity problem that Einstein probably couldn't solve).
All of your suggestions are obviously easier said than done.

D won't be fine, 2 rookies into the lineup won't be pretty.
No one wants Zaitzev or Brown at their cap hits.
Mango and Kappi probably don't want bridge deals.
Marleau will be on the cap.
Oh yeah, that Marner contract too.

I wish I could fast forward to October to see how this plays out.

Brown is easily tradeable, I believe. His salary is well below league average, he's a reasonable PKer, he scored 20 goals a couple of years ago. He's prime-aged.  We might not get much in return for him, but there are plenty of teams who would take him on.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on May 24, 2019, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

+1

Kadri can prop up a 3rd line all by himself. The other two can't.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on May 24, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

I generally agree but Kadri's really got to be on his last legs in terms of making stupid decisions. It doesn't matter how great a value his deal is when he's not in the line-up when the team needs him most.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on May 24, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 24, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

I generally agree but Kadri's really got to be on his last legs in terms of making stupid decisions. It doesn't matter how great a value his deal is when he's not in the line-up when the team needs him most.

I've given this a few more weeks of thought, and I still think there's no way that they can bring him back. What he did again this year can't be condoned.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on May 24, 2019, 07:05:28 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I found Kadri looking slow at times over the season relative to the pace of the game. Certainly not calling him a plug by any stretch, but if he and Kapanen were moved for a substantial piece/pieces on the back end, I'd be interested to see what might be out there as a value UFA 3C. I think Nylander is wasted anywhere but the Matthews or Tavaras line.

The priority in the offseason after Marner should be to substantially bolster the top 4 D, assuming sans Gardiner. We're going to have to be prepared to lose something good to get it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

All the more reason to deal him now.  We can't afford him as 3C once the contract is over.  And while I wouldn't use as a rationale his suspensions (though Nik's basic point is well taken), Frycer is probably right in terms of what should be prioritized if he is traded.  If you do trade him for a roster defenseman instead of picks, then you can't use that space to sign Johnsson/Kapanen.

Yeah, one way or another we are likely losing somebody pretty good this offseason beyond just Gardiner.

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on May 24, 2019, 11:22:39 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 24, 2019, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 24, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
No way in hell I'd let Kadri go before Johnsson and Kapanen. Kadri's on a fantastic deal is a significantly greater value.

All the more reason to deal him now.  We can't afford him as 3C once the contract is over.  And while I wouldn't use as a rationale his suspensions (though Nik's basic point is well taken), Frycer is probably right in terms of what should be prioritized if he is traded.  If you do trade him for a roster defenseman instead of picks, then you can't use that space to sign Johnsson/Kapanen.

Yeah, one way or another we are likely losing somebody pretty good this offseason beyond just Gardiner.
Why trade him with term?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on May 24, 2019, 11:32:43 PM
Dubas on the Leafs cap situation:

Quote"Everybody knows our situation," Leafs GM Kyle Dubas said Friday over the phone. "We've got three restricted free agents up front that are important not just in the short term but the long term, because they're relatively young guys. You've got Andreas who is 24, 'Kappy' will be turning 23, and Mitch just turned 22. So you've got those guys that we want to lock up because we see them as very important core pieces of our group."

...if Toronto wants to get what it really needs – a right-shot, top-pair defenseman in the vein of Jacob Trouba, Dougie Hamilton or Colton Parayko – it has to move a bigger piece. Might it be Kapanen or Johnsson? We can't say for sure, and Dubas' best-case scenario is to obviously to keep both, but he did point out to me something important about Johnsson's status.

Quote"He was a restricted free agent last year and took his qualifying offer, so he's arbitration eligible now, which means there will be a resolution," Dubas said. "It won't be long and drawn out. By the end of July, we'll have a solution to his status one way or another, whether that's a negotiated settlement or whether the arbiter declares what his worth is. And regardless of what the outcome of the summer is for him, he is a player that we strongly value. "

Because Johnsson's contract situation, as Dubas explains, has a clear resolution timeline, you could make a case Johnsson is more likely than Kapanen to remain a Leaf.

Still, after what transpired with Nazem Kadri for a second consecutive post-season and, given his affordable $4.5-million cap hit, it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he was the Leaf who ended up dealt. Nylander, whose cap hit comes in at just below $7 million, would be the best player to move from a financial standpoint, but Dubas has insisted he won't trade him.

Long story short: we know the Leafs need a right-shot blueliner, but the RFAs are their first priority. Once those contracts – at the very least Marner's – are sorted, Dubas can turn his attention to chasing that D-man. The guess here is that it will require trading Brown plus one of the team's core secondary forwards from the group of Johnsson, Kapanen, Kadri and Nylander.


https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/ask-me-anything-which-nhl-team-will-make-the-boldest-off-season-moves (https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/ask-me-anything-which-nhl-team-will-make-the-boldest-off-season-moves)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on May 25, 2019, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: Bender on May 24, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Quote from: herman on May 23, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
Fenton has made assurances to Spurgeon, but I'm looking at their roster and I don't know what he thinks he can do to climb out of the mushy middle.

Spurgeon at 30 in 2019 for Kapanen at 23? I don't really like the sound of that....

Yea, Spurgeon will be 30 and is a UFA after this season. That's a pretty big overpayment, imo. Is Larsson a better target? He has an extra year left and Edmonton already (for some reason) covets Brown. Maybe a Kapanen, Brown, + swap for Larsson and Paajarvi?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 03, 2019, 10:23:20 AM
https://twitter.com/thefourthperiod/status/1135544586636578816

Where Marleau/Marner money might go... draft lottery specialist!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 03, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
You might want to check who his agent is...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 03, 2019, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 03, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
You might want to check who his agent is...

Teehee
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:00:56 AM
Sean Avery is claiming the leafs have traded Kadri for Trouba...people seem to think he may be joking ...

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/sean-avery-trade-leafs-jets-kadri-trouba
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 05, 2019, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:00:56 AM
Sean Avery is claiming the leafs have traded Kadri for Trouba...people seem to think he may be joking ...

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/sean-avery-trade-leafs-jets-kadri-trouba

I'm sure this is just Avery being Avery (a previous instagram post yesterday showed him forcing someone to apologize to a wall that they just peed on) but how amazing would it be if the Leafs started giving all these leaks to just completely random people to drop for the next year instead of schmoes like Dreger.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 11:07:48 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 05, 2019, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:00:56 AM
Sean Avery is claiming the leafs have traded Kadri for Trouba...people seem to think he may be joking ...

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/sean-avery-trade-leafs-jets-kadri-trouba

I'm sure this is just Avery being Avery (a previous instagram post yesterday showed him forcing someone to apologize to a wall that they just peed on) but how amazing would it be if the Leafs started giving all these leaks to just completely random people to drop for the next year instead of schmoes like Dreger.

Lol. Like maybe me. 

I'm sure it was a joke, commenting on the fact that Canadian fans are talking about off-season moves while the playoffs continue.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 05, 2019, 11:48:46 AM
https://twitter.com/tsn1040/status/1136291525950943233
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on June 05, 2019, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: herman on June 05, 2019, 11:48:46 AM
https://twitter.com/tsn1040/status/1136291525950943233


Connor Brown for Puljujarvi let's go!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 05, 2019, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: herman on June 05, 2019, 11:48:46 AM
https://twitter.com/tsn1040/status/1136291525950943233

Use cap space + assets from Marleau/Zaitsev/Kapanen/Brown to bring in a legitimate top-3 RHD and slide Puli in as 3RW.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:24:21 PM
Yeah, 2016 was a pretty good year to have won the lottery.  Pretty swift drop off in talent.  Very few winners beyond Matthews, Sergachev, McAvoy for their draft ranking it seems.  Even Laine's future looks a little suspect for a #2 overall pick (relative to some #2 overall picks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NHL_Entry_Draft#Round_one

edit:  I guess there is Tkachuk and Clayton Keller too.  Though Keller had just 47 points in 82 games last year ...  Nylander, Marner, Matthews was a pretty great run.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on June 05, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:24:21 PM
Yeah, 2016 was a pretty good year to have won the lottery.  Pretty swift drop off in talent.  Very few winners beyond Matthews, Sergachev, McAvoy for their draft ranking it seems.  Even Laine's future looks a little suspect for a #2 overall pick (relative to some #2 overall picks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NHL_Entry_Draft#Round_one

That's probably a little quick on the draw. We're talking about 20-21 year olds. Leaving aside guys you're forgetting like Tkachuk and Dubois looking pretty good right now it's way too early to judge a pretty defense heavy firstround.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:29:14 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 05, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: princedpw on June 05, 2019, 01:24:21 PM
Yeah, 2016 was a pretty good year to have won the lottery.  Pretty swift drop off in talent.  Very few winners beyond Matthews, Sergachev, McAvoy for their draft ranking it seems.  Even Laine's future looks a little suspect for a #2 overall pick (relative to some #2 overall picks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NHL_Entry_Draft#Round_one

That's probably a little quick on the draw. We're talking about 20-21 year olds. Leaving aside guys you're forgetting like Tkachuk and Dubois looking pretty good right now it's way too early to judge a pretty defense heavy firstround.

Fair enough... (I just edited as you were posting ...)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 05, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 05, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
That's probably a little quick on the draw. We're talking about 20-21 year olds. Leaving aside guys you're forgetting like Tkachuk and Dubois looking pretty good right now it's way too early to judge a pretty defense heavy firstround.

Yup, especially when it looks like a lot of teams are taking a patient approach with guys they drafted. Juolevi, for instance, was only brought over to play in the AHL last season. More and more teams are buying into a patient approach with their better prospects.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 08, 2019, 09:32:04 AM
Been seeing rumours of Kovalchuk coming to Toronto for Marleau. On the surface it makes little sense since they're both paid 6.25 a year, but what if the Kings retain 3 million. With the Leafs paying a chunk of Marleau's salary on July 1st, the money would even out, not totally, and the cap hit would be 9 next year 3 the year after for the Kings and 3 for the Leafs in both years. Kovalchuk could be decent playing with a guy like Marner.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on June 08, 2019, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 08, 2019, 09:32:04 AM
Been seeing rumours of Kovalchuk coming to Toronto for Marleau. On the surface it makes little sense since they're both paid 6.25 a year, but what if the Kings retain 3 million. With the Leafs paying a chunk of Marleau's salary on July 1st, the money would even out, not totally, and the cap hit would be 9 next year 3 the year after for the Kings and 3 for the Leafs in both years. Kovalchuk could be decent playing with a guy like Marner.


Kovalchuk at 3M has to be easier to swallow than Marleau at 6, but you'd have Kovalchuk for 2 seasons; if he's not a total bust it might make sense.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 08, 2019, 09:42:06 PM
frick the K man
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 09, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
If Perry gets bought out, would you take him on a one year league minimum contract?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 09, 2019, 07:09:14 PM
Quote from: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 09, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
If Perry gets bought out, would you take him on a one year league minimum contract?

He's pretty broken, and a defensive liability these days. He also plays a position where the Leafs are pretty deep, and doesn't provide enough of what they need. So, I'd say no.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 09, 2019, 08:18:37 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 09, 2019, 07:09:14 PM
Quote from: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 09, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
If Perry gets bought out, would you take him on a one year league minimum contract?

He's pretty broken, and a defensive liability these days. He also plays a position where the Leafs are pretty deep, and doesn't provide enough of what they need. So, I'd say no.
It would depend on other moves first before getting him. Dont really see a need at the moment tho
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 09, 2019, 09:13:26 PM
If Kadri, Brown and Bracco go to get RD help, he could potentially be a good 3rd line RW banging in feeds from Willy.

At league minimum there is no risk imo.

If he can stay healthy and play against bottom six opposition with Willy feeding him...seems like a low risk/high reward swing.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bates on June 09, 2019, 09:35:01 PM
Quote from: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 09, 2019, 09:13:26 PM
If Kadri, Brown and Bracco go to get RD help, he could potentially be a good 3rd line RW banging in feeds from Willy.

At league minimum there is no risk imo.

If he can stay healthy and play against bottom six opposition with Willy feeding him...seems like a low risk/high reward swing.

Plus when the Bruins get a little dirty we would have a guy for the job.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 09:50:30 AM
Assuming we lose at least one of Brown or Kappy (which is almost a certainty I'd imagine) then yeah I'd definitely take Perry at anything sub-$1mil. Why not. Worst case they bench/waive him if he's a total bust.

I'm not entirely sure why the Ducks would consider buying him out though. Obviously last season sucked for him but starting in February put him way, way behind. And before that season he was still scoring at a 50-point pace so that's not completely awful. Why not play out a full season and see if he can rebuild some value. If he gets back to 50 points then next offseason when he has just 1 year left on his deal you can probably trade him for something decent as long as you retain some salary (edit: by some I mean of course the max 50%). 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
Presuming Zaitsev and Marleau and Brown are moved, without losing other roster players (which isn't very likely) and not accounting for the return because who knows... this is our depth chart. I only included Marlies that have a (small) chance to crack the roster.

LWCRWLDRD
Hyman +TavaresMarnerRiellyHoll
JohnssonMatthewsNylanderMuzzin
MikheyevKadriKapanenDermott +
MooreGauthierRosen
Petan
EngvallBraccoSandinLiljegren
MarchmentKorshkovKivihalme
TimashovBorgman
Carcone

Hainsey is very likely returning.

I don't know that utility scorer Tyler Ennis is going to take another league-min contract, given how he performed here; he still has 1.21667M coming from Minnesota's buyout last offseason, so that could help.

I'm betting the fringe signings/call ups/trades are going to prioritize penalty killers since Hyman is injured and we're dropping Brown and Zaitsev. (I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
(I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)

I've wondered too if Babcock finally gets his wish there, especially if it's involved in a larger Zaitsev trade.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 10, 2019, 11:40:28 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
(I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)

I've wondered too if Babcock finally gets his wish there, especially if it's involved in a larger Zaitsev trade.

1 year left at 1.8M for the OG Ben Smith... I don't hate it anymore.

Especially if the d corps looks like:

Rielly - Trouba or Hamilton
Gardiner - Dermott
Hainsey - Holl
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 12:00:49 PM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 11:40:28 AM
1 year left at 1.8M for the OG Ben Smith... I don't hate it anymore.

2 years left. So his contract still sucks, but it's also probably re-tradeable if need be.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 10, 2019, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
I'm betting the fringe signings/call ups/trades are going to prioritize penalty killers since Hyman is injured and we're dropping Brown and Zaitsev. (I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)

Yup. That's another big reason I don't think Perry is a fit for the Leafs. I don't think Nylander gets moved to 3C, even if Kadri is dealt. But, more importantly, the team isn't lacking in goal scoring. It is lacking in reliable twoway forwards, and Perry is not that - at least, not any more. He doesn't have the speed to keep up anymore.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Groundskeeper Willie on June 10, 2019, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
(I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)

I've wondered too if Babcock finally gets his wish there, especially if it's involved in a larger Zaitsev trade.
There's talk of Brandon Dubinsky getting bought out, is his game still good enough to fill a centre role if he'll sign cheap?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 10, 2019, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
I'm betting the fringe signings/call ups/trades are going to prioritize penalty killers since Hyman is injured and we're dropping Brown and Zaitsev. (I think Luke Glendening for 4C is happening -- or someone equivalent)

Yup. That's another big reason I don't think Perry is a fit for the Leafs. I don't think Nylander gets moved to 3C, even if Kadri is dealt. But, more importantly, the team isn't lacking in goal scoring. It is lacking in reliable twoway forwards, and Perry is not that - at least, not any more. He doesn't have the speed to keep up anymore.

Let's not forget that we're coming off a season where our PP2 scored like 6 goals or something all year (I don't actually know the number). We could use a huge boost there and Perry could potentially provide it.

As for PK options, just based off Herman's roster we still have Hyman and Kapanen. Moore probably gets minutes there. Mikheyev played in all situations in Russia so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tried there. Plus I'd have to imagine that our new PK coach will see the value in having an actual centre play minutes there so I'd guess we see 2 of Tavares/Kadri/4C play. That's 6 options. Could see Johnsson getting tried there too during Hyman's absence, but once that settles I'd hope the primary PK quartet becomes Hyman and Kapanen and then two of those centres. I think we're ok there.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 10, 2019, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2019, 12:00:49 PM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 11:40:28 AM
1 year left at 1.8M for the OG Ben Smith... I don't hate it anymore.

2 years left. So his contract still sucks, but it's also probably re-tradeable if need be.

Wow my table reading comprehension is in summer mode.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 10, 2019, 01:33:46 PM
PK: #
PP: ^
IR: +
pending contract: $

LWCRWLDRD
Hyman +#Tavares #^Marner $#^Rielly #^Holl #
Johnsson $^Matthews ^Nylander ^Muzzin #
Mikheyev #^Kadri ^Kapanen $#^Dermott +#^
Moore #^GauthierRosen ^
Petan ^
Engvall #^Bracco ^Sandin #^Liljegren #^
Marchment ^Korshkov #^Kivihalme #^
Timashov #^Borgman #^
Carcone $#^
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on June 10, 2019, 01:46:18 PM
Let's go Mar-ner *clap* *clap* *clapclapclap*
Let's go Mar-ner *clap* *clap* *clapclapclap*
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 10, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
If our line up only features 2 changes up front and Gauthier as our 4th line centre we're in trouble. The playoffs have shown once again that you need production from your bottom 6 and Goat offers nothing in that department.
I think we'll see Marchment and Engvall get a real shot at making the team. Bracco is all but ready for an NHL job also. Brooks is also another guy to keep an eye on. He's a centre and did kill penalties for the Marlies. I think Lilypad will be on the team, along with Rosen and the 2 with outside chances are Borgman, then Sandin. I can see as many as 5 Marlies or maybe more on the team next season. Can also see scenarios where one or more of Hyman, Kappy, Johnsson, Brown are moved. I think Dubas is going to do something unexpected.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on June 10, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 10, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
If our line up only features 2 changes up front and Gauthier as our 4th line centre we're in trouble. The playoffs have shown once again that you need production from your bottom 6 and Goat offers nothing in that department.
I think we'll see Marchment and Engvall get a real shot at making the team. Bracco is all but ready for an NHL job also. Brooks is also another guy to keep an eye on. He's a centre and did kill penalties for the Marlies. I think Lilypad will be on the team, along with Rosen and the 2 with outside chances are Borgman, then Sandin. I can see as many as 5 Marlies or maybe more on the team next season. Can also see scenarios where one or more of Hyman, Kappy, Johnsson, Brown are moved. I think Dubas is going to do something unexpected.

If Bracco isn't traded in some package, he only makes the team if one of Kapanen/Johnsson are gone since I can't seem them putting Bracco on the 4th line.  Can Bracco play the left side, or can Kapanen?  Maybe a Kapanen-Kadri-Bracco line makes sense. 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 10, 2019, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 10, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 10, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
If our line up only features 2 changes up front and Gauthier as our 4th line centre we're in trouble. The playoffs have shown once again that you need production from your bottom 6 and Goat offers nothing in that department.
I think we'll see Marchment and Engvall get a real shot at making the team. Bracco is all but ready for an NHL job also. Brooks is also another guy to keep an eye on. He's a centre and did kill penalties for the Marlies. I think Lilypad will be on the team, along with Rosen and the 2 with outside chances are Borgman, then Sandin. I can see as many as 5 Marlies or maybe more on the team next season. Can also see scenarios where one or more of Hyman, Kappy, Johnsson, Brown are moved. I think Dubas is going to do something unexpected.

If Bracco isn't traded in some package, he only makes the team if one of Kapanen/Johnsson are gone since I can't seem them putting Bracco on the 4th line.  Can Bracco play the left side, or can Kapanen?  Maybe a Kapanen-Kadri-Bracco line makes sense. 
I would agree with that. Can't see them playing him on the 4th line unless the line is something like Moore, Engvall, Bracco. I think it's more likely Bracco to be on the 3rd line and Marchment on the 4th with Moore and Engvall. Bracco is a cheaper option then either Kappy, Johnsson, Hyman, or Brown although I don't see him in the same defensive role as any of those guys. Dubas has some options to improve the D and the forwards with these kids. Petan is still a wild card, as well as Korshkov and Mikheyev potentially on the 3rd line. The real questions are who can be replaced with cheaper parts? Can any Marlies player do Hyman's, Brown's job for at least half the price? Can any replace Kappy or Johnsson to bring us a Dman?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 10, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
I sense a decent overhaul coming, even with a team that was largely successful on the percentages, as they couldn't make the turn in match up play. Fortunately, the success was largely on the back of the core players that are locked in (or pending RFA deals) with only Tavares and Andersen (and Gardiner) at or near their peaks.

With the way the Raptors' finals run has gone, I can see more pressure at MLSE for load management superseding hockey ego. Only resting players after they're already sort of hurt. Never believe anything Zach Hyman says about potential injuries. The Leafs need to get ahead of the hockey curve here. We're going to make the playoffs; seeding doesn't matter that much. The finals are as much, if not more about physical attrition than skill.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 10, 2019, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: herman on June 10, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
I sense a decent overhaul coming, even with a team that was largely successful on the percentages, as they couldn't make the turn in match up play. Fortunately, the success was largely on the back of the core players that are locked in (or pending RFA deals) with only Tavares and Andersen (and Gardiner) at or near their peaks.

With the way the Raptors' finals run has gone, I can see more pressure at MLSE for load management superseding hockey ego. Only resting players after they're already sort of hurt. Never believe anything Zach Hyman says about potential injuries. The Leafs need to get ahead of the hockey curve here. We're going to make the playoffs; seeding doesn't matter that much. The finals are as much, if not more about physical attrition than skill.
I certainly hope so. Even with Riley playing at Norris consideration levels the D wasn't good enough. All we're looking at currently is less Gardiner and Hainsey plus rookies. I think for the better good flipping offensive depth for is necessary.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2019, 01:58:21 PM
Both Dreger and LeBrun are still saying the Rangers might trade Kreider this offseason. I know we need a RHD badly and all but he still might be my dream target.

Just imagine a top-6 of:

Kreider-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson/Hyman-Tavares-Marner

*SWOONS*
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 18, 2019, 02:07:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2019, 01:58:21 PM
Both Dreger and LeBrun are still saying the Rangers might trade Kreider this offseason. I know we need a RHD badly and all but he still might be my dream target.

Just imagine a top-6 of:

Kreider-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson/Hyman-Tavares-Marner

*SWOONS*
Kreider-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Tavares-Marner
Much better...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 18, 2019, 03:42:38 PM
Just throwing some **** at the wall:



With the Canes looking for offence:
Kadri for Hamilton

With the Wild unsure what they're doing, how about:
Kadri + Zaitsev for Dumba + something?

Or with Philly making major changes, how about:
Kadri for Laughton + Myers + pick
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:25:16 PM
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1141438346951970816

Adjust accordingly
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 19, 2019, 04:28:37 PM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:25:16 PM
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1141438346951970816

Adjust accordingly

So we are trading Kapanen and Johnsson at the draft?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:39:17 PM
I think it just means we're dumping Marleau and Zaitsev with more of a sweetener (which might be cap space too) to avoid taking back bad salary, shipping off Brown for someone who needs seasoning, and promoting more Marlies. Gauthier, Moore, Rosen, and Sparks are all at cap hits below league minimum. It's manageable, just much more difficult to bolster the defense at the top of the depth chart.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:54:26 PM
We're not the only cap-strapped team in the league either. Vegas managed to paint themselves into a corner already.

https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1141430860597665792

Winnipeg has already shelled out a top pairing player. Tampa will magically make it work thanks to no taxes and nice weather, but they're in the red zone when the sea level rises.

The Leafs only need to ride out one year, and there's a lot that can be done at the deadline.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2019, 04:59:49 PM
Trading Pacioretty would be very odd. That 4-year, $7mil AAV extension he signed immediately after his trade there hasn't even kicked in yet...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 19, 2019, 05:18:37 PM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:54:26 PM
We're not the only cap-strapped team in the league either.

That's my worry — there will be competition for cap space, increasing the cost of dumping, say Marleau, if it is even possible.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 19, 2019, 05:33:33 PM
Quote from: princedpw on June 19, 2019, 05:18:37 PM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 04:54:26 PM
We're not the only cap-strapped team in the league either.

That's my worry — there will be competition for cap space, increasing the cost of dumping, say Marleau, if it is even possible.

Arizona just picked up a new owner, so there might be some of that cap space going beyond just the floor.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 19, 2019, 05:38:41 PM
I'm becoming less and less convinced we'll be able to offload both Marleau and Zaitsev.  In fact, I wonder if we'll be able to get one moved.

And to be clear, this isn't a patience thing.  It's a landscape thing.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 19, 2019, 07:10:29 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1141479639266856960
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on June 19, 2019, 07:14:28 PM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 07:10:29 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1141479639266856960

Ujiri effect, hopefully.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 20, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
https://twitter.com/nhlbymatty/status/1141363166086983681

What do we call this effect?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Peter D. on June 20, 2019, 11:11:15 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 07:10:29 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1141479639266856960

I thought any Marner trade speculation was complete b.s.  What the...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 20, 2019, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 05:33:33 PM
Arizona just picked up a new owner, so there might be some of that cap space going beyond just the floor.

For what it's worth, the Coyotes already have the 5th highest projected cap hit for next season. They have about $1mil more committed than the Leafs do. That of course includes Hossa's deal but even without that they're about $10mil over whatever the floor is going to be.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 20, 2019, 11:15:39 AM
Quote from: Peter D. on June 20, 2019, 11:11:15 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2019, 07:10:29 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1141479639266856960

I thought any Marner trade speculation was complete b.s.  What the...

I wouldn't worry about it as it's just due diligence to establish valuation and give us an out of Marner's camp takes it that far. They did the same for Nylander's negotiation even though there was no intention to trade.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Peter D. on June 20, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 11:15:39 AM
I wouldn't worry about it as it's just due diligence to establish valuation and give us an out of Marner's camp takes it that far. They did the same for Nylander's negotiation even though there was no intention to trade.

Likely.  But I wasn't fond of how the first two "big three" contracts were handled, and I'm not liking the direction this one is headed in.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on June 20, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Peter D. on June 20, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 11:15:39 AM
I wouldn't worry about it as it's just due diligence to establish valuation and give us an out of Marner's camp takes it that far. They did the same for Nylander's negotiation even though there was no intention to trade.

Likely.  But I wasn't fond of how the first two "big three" contracts were handled, and I'm not liking the direction this one is headed in.

What does that even mean though? You don't have a hell of a lot of options if the player digs in to try and get the best deal of themselves out of you.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on June 20, 2019, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
https://twitter.com/nhlbymatty/status/1141363166086983681

What do we call this effect?

? What do you mean?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on June 20, 2019, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
https://twitter.com/nhlbymatty/status/1141363166086983681

What do we call this effect?

The.... stupid effect? No idea...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 20, 2019, 01:55:11 PM
You know how sports media is always "how does this affect the Leafs?" about any sports news? Matheson is like that with Keith Gretzky and it is really a sight to behold.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 20, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
https://twitter.com/nhlbymatty/status/1141363166086983681

What do we call this effect?

The Anti-Analytics Impact?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on June 20, 2019, 02:29:05 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 06:46:49 AM
https://twitter.com/nhlbymatty/status/1141363166086983681

What do we call this effect?

I love this "groundwork has been laid out" crap on a third line forward for a 2nd round pick...like in took them weeks to get down to this? 

Deals get done in 1 2-minute phone call at the draft that are infinitely more complicated than a "Brown for a pick" trade.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 20, 2019, 03:00:11 PM
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1141770228805844993
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 20, 2019, 03:47:06 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 03:00:11 PM
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1141770228805844993
A RHD to play for 30 minutes a game for no salary. I would be looking at a Sergachev-Drouin type of trade. Elite D prospect ready to go.

I am stressing that nothings dropped yet in Toronto. Just so much uncertainty.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on June 20, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 03:00:11 PM
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1141770228805844993

That seems oddly specific. Why not a centre back for Kapanen and a D back for Kadri (who's significantly more valuable than Kapanen.)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on June 20, 2019, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 20, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
That seems oddly specific. Why not a centre back for Kapanen and a D back for Kadri (who's significantly more valuable than Kapanen.)

I think it has to do with the possibility of only making one of those deals. Dealing Kapanen only makes a ton of sense if you're addressing a problem area and if you're dealing Kadri you're basically turning the Centre position into a problem area(assuming Nylander is Matthews' permanent sidekick, which I think he would be).
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 20, 2019, 04:53:17 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 20, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
Quote from: herman on June 20, 2019, 03:00:11 PM
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1141770228805844993

That seems oddly specific. Why not a centre back for Kapanen and a D back for Kadri (who's significantly more valuable than Kapanen.)
For a team looking for a C, what C could they possibly offer in return? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on June 20, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 20, 2019, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 20, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
That seems oddly specific. Why not a centre back for Kapanen and a D back for Kadri (who's significantly more valuable than Kapanen.)

I think it has to do with the possibility of only making one of those deals. Dealing Kapanen only makes a ton of sense if you're addressing a problem area and if you're dealing Kadri you're basically turning the Centre position into a problem area(assuming Nylander is Matthews' permanent sidekick, which I think he would be).

I had thought of that. Hopefully they'd be able to pull off a Kapanen trade first. Kadri would probably be a key piece in a Pesce trade. Solves a need for both teams I think.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 20, 2019, 04:59:38 PM
Speaking of Kapanen and Pesce...

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1141811522403835904
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 20, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
3 years of Kadri at $4.5M is an incredible value. The return should be substantial. Hayes got what? I would hang onto Kadri unless it's an RHD young Dman with multiple years of control.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 20, 2019, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 20, 2019, 04:59:38 PM
Speaking of Kapanen and Pesce...

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1141811522403835904

Throw in a 2nd rounder sweetener and get that mofo over here already!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 20, 2019, 09:31:08 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 20, 2019, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 20, 2019, 04:59:38 PM
Speaking of Kapanen and Pesce...

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1141811522403835904

Throw in a 2nd rounder sweetener and get that mofo over here already!
Smells fishy to me.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on June 21, 2019, 01:36:05 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on May 24, 2019, 11:32:43 PM
...if Toronto wants to get what it really needs – a right-shot, top-pair defenseman in the vein of Jacob Trouba, Dougie Hamilton or Colton Parayko – it has to move a bigger piece. Might it be Kapanen or Johnsson?

I'm pretty sure anyone willing to let go of a top pair right hand D like those examples is looking for more than Kapanen or Johnsson in return.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 22, 2019, 06:08:07 PM
Start your spreadsheets!

https://twitter.com/tsnbobmckenzie/status/1142547708693164032
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: herman on June 22, 2019, 06:08:07 PM
Start your spreadsheets!

https://twitter.com/tsnbobmckenzie/status/1142547708693164032

With Mitch at 11, Kapanen at 3.25, Johnsson at 3.5, we're a smidge over the cap with Z and Dermott as our top 2 on the right and no spare D.

We can move Brown in order to get a spare D under 1M if we replace him with a 1M winger.

Unless I goofed something, it's looking pretty tight.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:14:17 PM
With Mitch at 11, Kapanen at 3.25, Johnsson at 3.5, we're a smidge over the cap with Z and Dermott as our top 2 on the right and no spare D.

We can move Brown in order to get a spare D under 1M if we replace him with a 1M winger.

Unless I goofed something, it's looking pretty tight.

Right now, once Horton's deal is factored, the Leafs have about 19.3 million in space. With those three at 17.75 they're 1.55 under the cap.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:25:01 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:14:17 PM
With Mitch at 11, Kapanen at 3.25, Johnsson at 3.5, we're a smidge over the cap with Z and Dermott as our top 2 on the right and no spare D.

We can move Brown in order to get a spare D under 1M if we replace him with a 1M winger.

Unless I goofed something, it's looking pretty tight.

Right now, once Horton's deal is factored, the Leafs have about 19.3 million in space. With those three at 17.75 they're 1.55 under the cap.

This is from capfriendly with Horton on  LTIR.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2019, 06:29:01 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:25:01 PM
This is from capfriendly with Horton on  LTIR.

Trust me. Go to capfriendly and see how beneath each position they have the total cap hit. Total them up. The only way to get to the 67 million they have listed is with Horton counting.

They have

Forwards - 40.67
Defense - 15.03
Goalies - 5.75

That's 61.45

Then you add Horton and Kessel, that's how you get to 67. I appreciate that the way they have it is confusing but a player can't be on LTIR in the off-season I'm fairly sure. Their number just reflects that.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:35:57 PM
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1247184

This doesn't take Hyman or Dermott's injuries into account.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2019, 06:29:01 PM
Trust me. Go to capfriendly and see how beneath each position they have the total cap hit. Total them up. The only way to get to the 67 million they have listed is with Horton counting.

They have

Forwards - 40.67
Defense - 15.03
Goalies - 5.75

That's 61.45

Then you add Horton and Kessel, that's how you get to 67. I appreciate that the way they have it is confusing but a player can't be on LTIR in the off-season I'm fairly sure. Their number just reflects that.

It's not confusing at all.  If you look at the team I published and linked, we're over.  Your account above only accounts for 16 players (+ Kessel) for 67 M.  Now add Mitch (11M, my estimate), Kapanen (3.25M), Johnsson (3.5M), another D (Rosen), plus some spares and we're over.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2019, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:42:42 PM
It's not confusing at all.  If you look at the team I published and linked, we're over.  Your account above only accounts for 16 players (+ Kessel) for 67 M.  Now add Mitch (11M, my estimate), Kapanen (3.25M), Johnsson (3.5M), another D (Rosen), plus some spares and we're over.

Fair enough, I thought you were just referring to the team as is.

But I generally think the consensus is that Brown is gone and Zaitsev almost certainly as well. I think ultimately the bigger issue is going to be a not very good/relying heavily on rookies blue line instead of cap pressure.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2019, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:42:42 PM
It's not confusing at all.  If you look at the team I published and linked, we're over.  Your account above only accounts for 16 players (+ Kessel) for 67 M.  Now add Mitch (11M, my estimate), Kapanen (3.25M), Johnsson (3.5M), another D (Rosen), plus some spares and we're over.

Fair enough, I thought you were just referring to the team as is.

But I generally think the consensus is that Brown is gone and Zaitsev almost certainly as well. I think ultimately the bigger issue is going to be a not very good/relying heavily on rookies blue line instead of cap pressure.

Team as is, while filling out a full roster.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 23, 2019, 11:07:10 PM
Let's not overthink this:

To CBJ: Marner rights, Zaitsev
To TOR: Jones, Anderson
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 24, 2019, 12:07:11 AM
Quote from: herman on June 23, 2019, 11:07:10 PM
Let's not overthink this:

To CBJ: Marner rights, Zaitsev
To TOR: Jones, Anderson

I probably do that deal.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 24, 2019, 04:36:13 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 24, 2019, 12:07:11 AM
Quote from: herman on June 23, 2019, 11:07:10 PM
Let's not overthink this:

To CBJ: Marner rights, Zaitsev
To TOR: Jones, Anderson

I probably do that deal.
Id do that deal. Jones is a beast and Anderson brings so nasty.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 24, 2019, 06:56:18 AM
But would Kekäläinen do it? Is one Marner enough to salve the loss of Panarin and Duchene?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on June 24, 2019, 07:01:02 AM
Not a chance in hell they move Jones.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on June 24, 2019, 07:15:06 AM
Quote from: herman on June 24, 2019, 06:56:18 AM
But would Kekäläinen do it? Is one Marner enough to salve the loss of Panarin and Duchene?

Probably not but if you substitute Panarin for Jones and make the deal contingent on a Panarin signing (10x8?) then CBJ ends up getting Marner essentially for Anderson and taking on Zaitsev's contract (since Panarin was leaving for nothing). Leafs get Panarin and Anderson, shed Zaitsev and can make a Kapanen for Pesce swap without hurting the winger depth. They'd also have a nice amount of Cap space left too.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 24, 2019, 09:22:19 AM
Who is playing D this year? It seems we're doing everything possible to bring back ALL our young forwards at the expense of the entire cap. Who is going to play D? 3 rookies to start the year until Dermott comes back (4 if Zaitsev goes)? Yikes... same offense and worse defense.

I really hope Kappi/Johnsson gets flipped for a D. I want Zaitsev back because we absolutely need him.

The timing for the Marleau trade, before bonus paid, was really strange I wonder if Dubas was in on something imminent that fell through?

I would bet on some substantially moves before the summers out. It doesn't make sense to be so front loaded.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on June 24, 2019, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 22, 2019, 06:35:57 PM
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1247184

This doesn't take Hyman or Dermott's injuries into account.
That's a good point, their injuries are long term and this would give Dubas more time for cap management.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on June 24, 2019, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 24, 2019, 09:22:19 AM



The timing for the Marleau trade, before bonus paid, was really strange I wonder if Dubas was in on something imminent that fell through?



I think it was mentioned in here earlier but Marleau can't be bought out after his bonus is paid and thus they potentially wouldn't be able to move him at all, so the timing here is actually imperative not strange.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 03, 2019, 12:09:56 AM
To Minnesota: Harpur
To Toronto: Spurgeon (retain 50%)

Dubas can do this.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 03, 2019, 12:44:49 AM
Quote from: Andy on June 24, 2019, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 24, 2019, 09:22:19 AM



The timing for the Marleau trade, before bonus paid, was really strange I wonder if Dubas was in on something imminent that fell through?



I think it was mentioned in here earlier but Marleau can't be bought out after his bonus is paid and thus they potentially wouldn't be able to move him at all, so the timing here is actually imperative not strange.
The buyout period would have been over if they waited to July 1. Thats why he had to go before then and Carolina had to pay his bonuses.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 07, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
William Nylander
for
Any heavier /well-rounded and sized player with a willingness to hit.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on November 07, 2019, 10:52:54 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 07, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
William Nylander
for
Any heavier /well-rounded and sized player with a willingness to hit.
James Neal for Milan Lucic.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2019, 12:38:46 AM
Quote from: Bender on November 07, 2019, 10:52:54 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 07, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
William Nylander
for
Any heavier /well-rounded and sized player with a willingness to hit.
James Neal for Milan Lucic.
That worked out well for both teams..... said no one
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 08:07:09 AM
....yeah Neal's doing just ok with 11 goals already, 8 of which coming on PP
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on November 08, 2019, 09:41:30 AM
both
/bōTH/

predeterminer · determiner · pronoun
used to refer to two people or things, regarded and identified together.
"both his parents indulged him"

adverb
used before the first of two alternatives to emphasize that the statement being made applies to each (the other alternative being introduced by "and").
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 08, 2019, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 08:07:09 AM
....yeah Neal's doing just ok with 11 goals already, 8 of which coming on PP

Everyone knew that wasn't going to keep up though, and unsurprisingly he now has just 2 goals in his last 9 games.

He's "on pace" for 53 goals right now. I don't think he's a lock to hit even 30.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on November 08, 2019, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on November 08, 2019, 09:45:18 AM
Everyone knew that wasn't going to keep up though, and unsurprisingly he now has just 2 goals in his last 9 games.

He's "on pace" for 53 goals right now. I don't think he's a lock to hit even 30.

His numbers are certainly getting a boost from that 4 goal game in the first week of the season. 7 goals in his first 4 games. He'll need a few more stretches like that to hit 30, for sure.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 08, 2019, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 08:07:09 AM
....yeah Neal's doing just ok with 11 goals already, 8 of which coming on PP

You do realize that Nylander would be Neal in this case, and your proposed return would be Lucic.  You're proposing we trade the more talented player for a guy who's heavier and can hit.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
But I didn't suggest a Nylander trade for either of these players....

Although Neal could've probably been had for a song in the last off season.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on November 08, 2019, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
But I didn't suggest a Nylander trade for either of these players....

Although Neal could've probably been had for a song in the last off season.

That wasn't the point people are making. Look at the recent trades where a high level skill player was traded for someone 'heavier' or more physical. The team trading away the skilled player almost always ends out coming out worse off.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on November 09, 2019, 12:20:34 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on November 08, 2019, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 08, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
But I didn't suggest a Nylander trade for either of these players....

Although Neal could've probably been had for a song in the last off season.

That wasn't the point people are making. Look at the recent trades where a high level skill player was traded for someone 'heavier' or more physical. The team trading away the skilled player almost always ends out coming out worse off.
[emoji108][emoji846]
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on November 09, 2019, 11:38:07 AM
Leafs finally get high end talent and some fans want to piss it away....
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 09, 2019, 12:57:27 PM
When I said "well rounded" what I meant is, a more complete player. This team of ours in my opinion has offense to spare, and so far Willy is as one dimensional as they come. Would you consider him for Tom Wilson, or someone like Josh Anderson? 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 09, 2019, 12:59:47 PM
I really, really hope that there's another Josh Anderson that I'm not aware of who is like 10x better than the Josh Anderson that I am aware of.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 09, 2019, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on November 09, 2019, 12:59:47 PM
I really, really hope that there's another Josh Anderson that I'm not aware of who is like 10x better than the Josh Anderson that I am aware of.

An almost 30 goal scorer last year who does things Willy doesnt, has size, hits, goes to the net and is from Ontario. Trading a little from an over abundance of offense to fill a gap that is a glaring deficiency, seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on November 09, 2019, 01:09:48 PM
I think Anderson/Wilson types are guys you can draft/develop much easier than high end offensive skill. Trading Nylander for someone like that because we don't love how the season has started seems like an overreaction of the highest order.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on November 09, 2019, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on November 09, 2019, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on November 09, 2019, 12:59:47 PM
I really, really hope that there's another Josh Anderson that I'm not aware of who is like 10x better than the Josh Anderson that I am aware of.

An almost 30 goal scorer last year who does things Willy doesnt, has size, hits, goes to the net and is from Ontario. Trading a little from an over abundance of offense to fill a gap that is a glaring deficiency, seems reasonable to me.

I really would have thought that what we've seen from Marner lately would kill off the idea that being local matters in the least.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on November 09, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
How true.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on November 09, 2019, 01:35:50 PM
It's also easier/more possible to teach a skilled player to add a defensive dimension to his game than the other way around.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 09, 2019, 01:58:45 PM
When's this "developing" going to take place? Don't know about you guys but I'm tired of watching this group get pushed around. As I see it, they should be all in this year.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on November 09, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
What is getting pushed around? Are we losing because of being pushed? Or are we losing because we aren't scoring or getting scored on?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on November 09, 2019, 02:05:07 PM
https://twitter.com/steveburtch/status/1193182013781622784

Development is happening
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on November 09, 2019, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: herman on November 09, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
What is getting pushed around? Are we losing because of being pushed? Or are we losing because we aren't scoring or getting scored on?
We have issues in generating chances and our xga is bad, although Andersen had an atrocious start. Hutch isn't helping either.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on November 09, 2019, 02:57:03 PM
We are seriously having a discussion about career high 47 point Josh Anderson?  Two years older than Nylander and way worse.  This is just silliness
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 09, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: L K on November 09, 2019, 02:57:03 PM
We are seriously having a discussion about career high 47 point Josh Anderson?  Two years older than Nylander and way worse.  This is just silliness

It'd basically be David Clarkson all over again. Grit! Local kid! (almost) 30 goals one time!

Come on people.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on November 09, 2019, 03:58:07 PM
I'd be open to a Josh Anderson for Jeremy Bracco move. He is a Darren Ferris client though and unless the cap spikes, we are better off not bothering.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on November 09, 2019, 05:40:44 PM
What I'm hearing here is basically Nylander for Hyman.  And that's a stupid trade idea 24x7.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on November 09, 2019, 10:00:24 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on November 09, 2019, 05:40:44 PM
What I'm hearing here is basically Nylander for Hyman.  And that's a stupid trade idea 24x7.
Quote from: AvroArrow on November 09, 2019, 05:40:44 PM
What I'm hearing here is basically Nylander for Hyman.  And that's a stupid trade idea 24x7.
For sure.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on November 10, 2019, 08:43:08 PM
Hyman is a lightweight and not at all intimidating.

https://youtu.be/6eYTdg0t6jw
(https://youtu.be/6eYTdg0t6jw)

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: RedLeaf on November 20, 2019, 01:42:47 PM
Saw this idea on some trade rumour site. Wanted to run this by the fans here. Trade Tyson Barrie for TJ Brody from Calgary. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on November 20, 2019, 02:22:13 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on November 20, 2019, 01:42:47 PM
Saw this idea on some trade rumour site. Wanted to run this by the fans here. Trade Tyson Barrie for TJ Brody from Calgary. Thoughts?

TJ Brodie collapsed in practice and is undergoing a series of tests.  Probably not the guy you'd want to trade for at the moment.  Health wise I hope he is ok.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: wnc096 on November 20, 2019, 02:30:19 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on November 20, 2019, 01:42:47 PM
Saw this idea on some trade rumour site. Wanted to run this by the fans here. Trade Tyson Barrie for TJ Brody from Calgary. Thoughts?

I live in Calgary.  people here were not high on Brodie before he went down
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 08:34:25 AM
Georgiev pls
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 08:34:25 AM
Georgiev pls

With Hank about to ride off into the sunset, do we think he's even available at all?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 08:34:25 AM
Georgiev pls

With Hank about to ride off into the sunset, do we think he's even available at all?

They have another goalie, Igor Shestyorkin, who is projected to be even better than him. Right now he's dominating in his first AHL season. But since Lundqvist has one more season on his deal after this one, do they want to keep Shestyorkin in the AHL for 2 straight seasons (would he want to play in the AHL for 2 straight seasons?) or do they want to clear the back-up spot up so he can start getting NHL minutes while Lundqvist is still around to platoon/mentor him?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on December 09, 2019, 09:43:12 AM
How about Johnsson (3.4) + Ceci (4.5) -1.5m retained
for
Raanta (4.25) and Crouse (1.0)

Get a good, experienced goalie, a physical winger w/ upside and clear 1.25million on the Cap. Sandin comes up and Dermott moves to the right side. All problems fixed?????

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 08:34:25 AM
Georgiev pls

With Hank about to ride off into the sunset, do we think he's even available at all?

They have another goalie, Igor Shestyorkin, who is projected to be even better than him. Right now he's dominating in his first AHL season. But since Lundqvist has one more season on his deal after this one, do they want to keep Shestyorkin in the AHL for 2 straight seasons (would he want to play in the AHL for 2 straight seasons?) or do they want to clear the back-up spot up so he can start getting NHL minutes while Lundqvist is still around to platoon/mentor him?

Sounds like they might be making a mistake...I'm all for capitalizing on that.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 10:01:20 AM
He's the perfect goalie for the Leafs style of defense.
https://twitter.com/EvolvingHockey/status/1203875163554664448

Like, I'm feeding them Kapanen and a 4th for their backup goalie in a rebuild year when they have 3.
Hire New York's goalie coach* while we're at it, although he's probably attached to Lundqvist's hip.

* Benoit Allaire, brother of Francois
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
So flesh this out for me herman...he's an RFA with arbitration rights after this season?

Freddie is due for a deal after 2020-2021, and the defence needs to re-sign a bunch of guys likely with raises. 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 10:17:27 AM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
So flesh this out for me herman...he's an RFA with arbitration rights after this season?

Freddie is due for a deal after 2020-2021, and the defence needs to re-sign a bunch of guys likely with raises. 


I'd say it's unlikely he gets much more than $1.5mil, if that, after this season. He's still a back-up goalie with little games played. And assuming we're using herman's trade proposal we're still coming out ahead in terms of cap space with Kapanen going out.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bates on December 09, 2019, 10:29:36 AM
Quote from: Andy on December 09, 2019, 09:43:12 AM
How about Johnsson (3.4) + Ceci (4.5) -1.5m retained
for
Raanta (4.25) and Crouse (1.0)

Get a good, experienced goalie, a physical winger w/ upside and clear 1.25million on the Cap. Sandin comes up and Dermott moves to the right side. All problems fixed?????

What's in that for the Coyote's?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 10:17:27 AM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
So flesh this out for me herman...he's an RFA with arbitration rights after this season?

Freddie is due for a deal after 2020-2021, and the defence needs to re-sign a bunch of guys likely with raises. 


I'd say it's unlikely he gets much more than $1.5mil, if that, after this season. He's still a back-up goalie with little games played. And assuming we're using herman's trade proposal we're still coming out ahead in terms of cap space with Kapanen going out.

My trade proposal is a deliberate overpay.

Our cap situation is significantly cleaner next year regardless.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 10:32:12 AM
My trade proposal is a deliberate overpay.

Our cap situation is significantly cleaner next year regardless.

I don't even really think it's an overpay, although some people here will probably think it is. We're talking about a pretty good young goalie who the Rangers don't technically have to trade. For a second I thought that they would be in a bind when it came to expansion but Lundqvist is a pending UFA (and likely retiring) heading into the draft and Shestyorkin isn't eligible for it. So they can protect Georgiev no problem. If that wasn't the case there would be a lot more pressure on the Rangers to move him.

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 10:46:01 AM
Didn't realize that Georgiev was an undrafted free agent. It'd be nice if the Leafs' "Russian Whisperer" could start looking at goalies too.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on December 09, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: Bates on December 09, 2019, 10:29:36 AM
Quote from: Andy on December 09, 2019, 09:43:12 AM
How about Johnsson (3.4) + Ceci (4.5) -1.5m retained
for
Raanta (4.25) and Crouse (1.0)

Get a good, experienced goalie, a physical winger w/ upside and clear 1.25million on the Cap. Sandin comes up and Dermott moves to the right side. All problems fixed?????

What's in that for the Coyote's?

Three years of Johnsson is pretty good for a back-up goalie.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on December 09, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
If Detroit really wants to solidify last overall why don't they trade us Bernier for Ceci? Salary will work, Bernier could be backup this year and next and Ceci makes the Wings even worse this season. It's a win-win
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 10:17:27 AM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
So flesh this out for me herman...he's an RFA with arbitration rights after this season?

Freddie is due for a deal after 2020-2021, and the defence needs to re-sign a bunch of guys likely with raises. 


I'd say it's unlikely he gets much more than $1.5mil, if that, after this season. He's still a back-up goalie with little games played. And assuming we're using herman's trade proposal we're still coming out ahead in terms of cap space with Kapanen going out.

I understand that with Kapanen going out, you can bring in a $1.5 guy...I'm just worried about next year's picture given they've got 1 NHL defenseman under contract for next season at this point.

I'll say Dermott gets $1.5m X 2.

That would obviously result in:

Rielly ($5)  -     Pietrangelo ($8)
Dermott  ($1.5)  -   Tanev ($2)
Sandin ($.9)  - Liljegren ($.9)
Holl ($.7)

I think you'd have to let Hyman walk to get to something like this and have $1.5 in a back-up?

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
I understand that with Kapanen going out, you can bring in a $1.5 guy...I'm just worried about next year's picture given they've got 1 NHL defenseman under contract for next season at this point.

Let's just assume that this trade happens and we re-sign Georgiev to a $1.5mil bridge deal. Let's also assume that next years salary cap is $84.5mil because I believe that was the last projected figure, but who knows what it will actually be. This is what our roster would look like with who we have currently signed (plus the Georgiev trade):

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Petan-Kerfoot-_____
Agostino-_____-Moore

Rielly-_____
_____-_____
Sandin-Liljegren

Andersen
Georgiev

That's a 15 man roster with about a $66.4mil cap hit. Using an $84.5mil ceiling, that gives us about $18mil in cap space to fill in those gaps.

Let's make a couple of quick signings. We'll plug in Engvall at 4C at $950k. Let's have Mikheyev will that last top-9 forward spot at $2.5mil (that contract is tricky to predict though). Let's also throw in a random 13th forward, say Timashov at $800k. Guys like him, Petan, Agostino, Engvall can all be replaced by others but odds are their roster spots will be filled by sub-$1mil players. That gets us set at forward. We're now at just under $14mil in cap space.

Now let's look at the defence. You have Dermott re-signing for $1.5mil. That seems low to me. He's been up and down this season so I genuinely don't know what he's getting, but let's call it $2.5mil instead. Let's also assume we sign a 7th defenceman for league minimum ($750k). I'll just pick a completely random defenceman off the top of my head: Martin Marincin.

Let's look at what that roster looks like now:

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Petan-Kerfoot-Hyman
Timashov-Engvall-Moore
Agostino

Rielly-_____
Dermott-_____
Sandin-Liljegren
Marincin

Andersen
Georgiev

So now we have about $10.6mil to sign two top-4, preferably right handed defencemen. Can you fit Pietrangelo and Tanev like you suggusted? Pietro at $8mil sounds about right but I'd have to guess Tanev gets at least twice what you suggested so that duo is probably out. But maybe one of Muzzin or Barrie and Tanev? That could potentially fit. I'm also just now remembering that Justin Holl exists. Right now him and Muzzin are forming the shutdown pair. If that keeps up all season long and he doesn't seem out of place, you could probably re-sign both of those guys for under $8mil, have Dermott move to the right side with Rielly, and still have about $2mil left in cap space to play with. Or you could use all of that $10.6mil on a Pietrangelo+Holl signing.

So, basically I do think that there is room to play with here. Especially if at least one of Kapanen/Johnsson/Mikheyev/Hyman is dealt by the offseason.

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 04:41:46 PM
1. What did you pay for Hyman?
2.  I thought Tanev gets less because he's missed a lot of games...
3.  I knew you'd find a way to get Marincin on this roster again.  I purposely left him out.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: RedLeaf on December 09, 2019, 04:42:15 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/10-potential-backup-goalie-targets-maple-leafs/

Sparks is on that. list. lol
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 04:59:55 PM
With the way our top 4 forwards are set up, we can conceivably cheap out hard on their LWs, as long as they fit the style of forechecks good and is reasonably defensively responsible. One of those spots is good for a showcase free-agent looking to build up his next contract off a league min deal. I'm thinking re-signing Marincin and Holl is nearly a forgone conclusion so long as they're amenable to <$1M.

Other than the backup, if the guy costs 1.5-2M, I'm leaning towards just using a league min. player instead. And honestly, I'm looking for a Rielly trade, even though that may be unpopular, especially if it leads to a Seth Jonesian return.

Basically:
Tier 1 - Core: 11.63M + 11M + 10.893M + 6.96M + 5M + 5M + future1RD
Tier 2 - Key Depth: 3.5M + 3.4M + 2.25M + BackupGoalie
Tier 3 - ELCs: ELC x 4 to 5
Tier 4 - Expendables: League Minimum x 6-8
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 05:02:39 PM
Quote from: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 04:41:46 PM
1. What did you pay for Hyman?
2.  I thought Tanev gets less because he's missed a lot of games...
3.  I knew you'd find a way to get Marincin on this roster again.  I purposely left him out.

1. Hyman's current contract runs for one more season after this one, so he's still there at $2.25mil.
2. I doubt that'll effect his AAV that much. He might not get term, but someone will still pay him a decent amount. Especially if he can stay healthy this season, which he has so far.
3. I told you I selected him at random.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 04:59:55 PM
I'm thinking re-signing Marincin and Holl is nearly a forgone conclusion so long as they're amenable to <$1M.

This is making a pretty big assumption, but if Holl continues playing 18 minutes a night with Muzzin he isn't coming back for under $1mil.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 05:12:59 PM
I was sure Hyman was up this year.  I think I confused his contract with Connor Brown's. 

Connor Brown.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 04:59:55 PM
I'm thinking re-signing Marincin and Holl is nearly a forgone conclusion so long as they're amenable to <$1M.

This is making a pretty big assumption, but if Holl continues playing 18 minutes a night with Muzzin he isn't coming back for under $1mil.

I mean he shouldn't take that haircut. But Dubas/Keefe were the group that fished him out of the ECHL and repeatedly went to bat for him and I wonder how much that counts for.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 04:59:55 PM
I'm thinking re-signing Marincin and Holl is nearly a forgone conclusion so long as they're amenable to <$1M.

This is making a pretty big assumption, but if Holl continues playing 18 minutes a night with Muzzin he isn't coming back for under $1mil.

I mean he shouldn't take that haircut. But Dubas/Keefe were the group that fished him out of the ECHL and repeatedly went to bat for him and I wonder how much that counts for.

It counts for zero.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1204133239666798592

Y'know who'd be a good third line scoring option on this team after Kappy is traded
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 09, 2019, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:13:13 PM
I mean he shouldn't take that haircut. But Dubas/Keefe were the group that fished him out of the ECHL and repeatedly went to bat for him and I wonder how much that counts for.

This could be his best/only chance for a big pay-day in his NHL career. If his agent can spin "6-foot-4 right-handed defenceman who can skate and play 18 minutes a night" during the interview period then I couldn't blame him for going with whoever offers the most.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1204133239666798592

Y'know who'd be a good third line scoring option on this team after Kappy is traded
Bracco
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 09, 2019, 08:24:11 PM
I don't watch any Marlies hockey, but my understanding is that Bracco is Petan light.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 09, 2019, 09:01:43 PM
Bracco is very one dimensional.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: OldTimeHockey on December 10, 2019, 08:18:55 AM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1204133239666798592

Y'know who'd be a good third line scoring option on this team after Kappy is traded

As much as I've always said that Leivo was a lazy player, one thing I do admire is his attitude through all the crap that went on.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: OldTimeHockey on December 10, 2019, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.

I agree with this. I use to feel the opposite as I felt Johnsson had better hockey sense but I find that Kapanen has taken a big step this year and has started controlling play.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on December 10, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1204133239666798592

Y'know who'd be a good third line scoring option on this team after Kappy is traded
Bracco? :o
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Dappleganger on December 10, 2019, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1204133239666798592

Y'know who'd be a good third line scoring option on this team after Kappy is traded

A guy playing on the top line with 2nd powerplay minutes on pace for 16 goals?  ???
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 10, 2019, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 09:01:43 PM
Bracco is very one dimensional.
Have you seen him play? The games I've seen him play he works hard in both ends. I'd like to see him get a shot.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 11, 2019, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 10, 2019, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 09:01:43 PM
Bracco is very one dimensional.
Have you seen him play? The games I've seen him play he works hard in both ends. I'd like to see him get a shot.

Yeah, there's a difference between working hard and being effective though, and Bracco's effectiveness is primarily making passes. Getting the puck and all that other stuff needs significant seasoning.

Leivo, Timashov, Petan, Aberg all have more to offer at this time.

But hey, if NYR want Bracco for Georgiev, then yes pls
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 11, 2019, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: herman on December 11, 2019, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 10, 2019, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: herman on December 09, 2019, 09:01:43 PM
Bracco is very one dimensional.
Have you seen him play? The games I've seen him play he works hard in both ends. I'd like to see him get a shot.

Yeah, there's a difference between working hard and being effective though, and Bracco's effectiveness is primarily making passes. Getting the puck and all that other stuff needs significant seasoning.

Leivo, Timashov, Petan, Aberg all have more to offer at this time.

But hey, if NYR want Bracco for Georgiev, then yes pls

Big fan eh?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 13, 2019, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.

Johnsson can play in the top-6, Kappy can't/won't. A minuscule age difference and cap hit don't make up for that to me.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 13, 2019, 10:48:56 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 13, 2019, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.

Johnsson can play in the top-6, Kappy can't/won't. A minuscule age difference and cap hit don't make up for that to me.

I have never seen such a skilled, physically gifted player nerf the creativity from top lines so quickly and effortlessly as Kapanen with Tavares/Marner and Matthews/Nylander.

Latest 31 Thoughts (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-jim-montgomery-firing-hockeys-latest-bombshell/)
Quote13. Not that they want to, but when things were going poorly for the Maple Leafs, another GM said Toronto learned it could trade Kasperi Kapanen very easily. "But they don't want to," he added.

Do it before others catch on.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 13, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Anyone think they start Hutchinson tomorrow night?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on December 13, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Frank E on December 13, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Anyone think they start Hutchinson tomorrow night?
Hopefully Jarry or Georgiev.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 13, 2019, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Highlander on December 13, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Frank E on December 13, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Anyone think they start Hutchinson tomorrow night?
Hopefully Jarry or Georgiev.
Don't see Pitt trading Jarry. Maybe the Leafs can get DeSmith but he has a 1.25 mill hit for 3 years. Has pretty good numbers in his brief NHL career.
Don't know if NYR will part with Georgiev.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on December 13, 2019, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: herman on December 13, 2019, 10:48:56 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 13, 2019, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.

Johnsson can play in the top-6, Kappy can't/won't. A minuscule age difference and cap hit don't make up for that to me.

I have never seen such a skilled, physically gifted player nerf the creativity from top lines so quickly and effortlessly as Kapanen with Tavares/Marner and Matthews/Nylander.

Latest 31 Thoughts (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-jim-montgomery-firing-hockeys-latest-bombshell/)
Quote13. Not that they want to, but when things were going poorly for the Maple Leafs, another GM said Toronto learned it could trade Kasperi Kapanen very easily. "But they don't want to," he added.

Do it before others catch on.

I think Kapanen is a fish out of water when he has to play on the Left Side.  Before Willy was back last season Kapanen looked better on Matthews right side- and the biggest frustration was taking long shots off the rush instead of stopping up and creating offense with the second wave of players.  He's seemed to improve that this season, but now Willy and Marner have those RW positions taken.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on December 13, 2019, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on December 13, 2019, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: herman on December 13, 2019, 10:48:56 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on December 13, 2019, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on December 09, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I'm still trading Johnsson before Kappy. Kappy is 1 1/2+ years younger, is a cheaper hit and I think a better overall player.

Johnsson can play in the top-6, Kappy can't/won't. A minuscule age difference and cap hit don't make up for that to me.

I have never seen such a skilled, physically gifted player nerf the creativity from top lines so quickly and effortlessly as Kapanen with Tavares/Marner and Matthews/Nylander.

Latest 31 Thoughts (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-jim-montgomery-firing-hockeys-latest-bombshell/)
Quote13. Not that they want to, but when things were going poorly for the Maple Leafs, another GM said Toronto learned it could trade Kasperi Kapanen very easily. "But they don't want to," he added.

Do it before others catch on.

I think Kapanen is a fish out of water when he has to play on the Left Side.  Before Willy was back last season Kapanen looked better on Matthews right side- and the biggest frustration was taking long shots off the rush instead of stopping up and creating offense with the second wave of players.  He's seemed to improve that this season, but now Willy and Marner have those RW positions taken.

Last season you also had Kadri in at 3C, who produced about double of what Kerfoot's P/GP is this season.  So I think it might be difficult for Kapanen to keep up his current pace at 3RW.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 13, 2019, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on December 13, 2019, 02:40:09 PM
I think Kapanen is a fish out of water when he has to play on the Left Side.  Before Willy was back last season Kapanen looked better on Matthews right side- and the biggest frustration was taking long shots off the rush instead of stopping up and creating offense with the second wave of players.  He's seemed to improve that this season, but now Willy and Marner have those RW positions taken.

Yes, he's not suited for the left side. Last night, Nylander played the left side.

Honestly, I think it's just Kapanen plays a certain style that is not conducive to supporting the give-and-go, heads-up seam plays that 91-16, 34-88 have built their success on. Even when he was on the right side with Matthews, you could visibly see the frustration his play was causing Matthews much of the time, especially when he would Leroy Jenkins the zone and then fizzle the play on a bad angle wrister into the crest. The dude has good puck handling skills and just blistering speed, but his read on the game is sorely behind his physical capabilities, you know?

On breakaways, that lack of group-attack awareness is negligible. In a 3rd line checking role, against lower quality competition, he can stand out a bit and do some damage at times. With skilled, creative east-west lines, he's just a non-entity at best and, more often than not, a hindrance.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on December 14, 2019, 04:13:59 PM
Quote from: herman on December 13, 2019, 03:06:31 PM
The dude has good puck handling skills and just blistering speed, but his read on the game is sorely behind his physical capabilities, you know?

On breakaways, that lack of group-attack awareness is negligible. In a 3rd line checking role, against lower quality competition, he can stand out a bit and do some damage at times. With skilled, creative east-west lines, he's just a non-entity at best and, more often than not, a hindrance.

Yeah, I'd agree completely with this. Kapenen is a huge luxury on a team that has the top 6 filled, but he's not really a sniper, or a playmaker, so he's kind of a third line player with devastating speed that can't really fit anywhere else. If other teams fancy him higher up in the lineup, you have to consider moving him for a good return.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: louisstamos on December 14, 2019, 05:33:38 PM
Maybe next season, but Johnsson or Kapanen for Severson make sense?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on December 19, 2019, 10:24:44 PM

So here's kind of a goofy trade idea but bear with me:

To the Devils:

Cody Ceci
Alex Kerfoot

To the Leafs:

PK Subban(4 million retained)
2nd round pick

To my mind while this trade isn't a huge win for either side, it gives both teams some utility. The Devils get a useful forward and get out of most of what looks like one of the worst contracts in the league. The Leafs get cap space to maybe fix the back-up goalie mess, what should be a high 2nd round pick and PK Subban on what works out to a 3 year/15 million dollar deal.

I'm sure some people look at Subban's numbers and think they don't want to go near it but there are some numbers there that aren't brutally awful and I'm about as comfortable with Subban at 3/15 as I am trying to sign Muzzin or Barrie. Who knows, bring Subban back to his hometown team and hope he can snap back from whatever the hell is going on there and the Leafs maybe have a steal.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Deebo on December 19, 2019, 10:52:11 PM
Quote from: Nik Bethune on December 19, 2019, 10:24:44 PM

So here's kind of a goofy trade idea but bear with me:

To the Devils:

Cody Ceci
Alex Kerfoot

To the Leafs:

PK Subban(4 million retained)
2nd round pick

To my mind while this trade isn't a huge win for either side, it gives both teams some utility. The Devils get a useful forward and get out of most of what looks like one of the worst contracts in the league. The Leafs get cap space to maybe fix the back-up goalie mess, what should be a high 2nd round pick and PK Subban on what works out to a 3 year/15 million dollar deal.

I'm sure some people look at Subban's numbers and think they don't want to go near it but there are some numbers there that aren't brutally awful and I'm about as comfortable with Subban at 3/15 as I am trying to sign Muzzin or Barrie. Who knows, bring Subban back to his hometown team and hope he can snap back from whatever the hell is going on there and the Leafs maybe have a steal.


I think that's a little rich on the Devils side, a pick in the thirties seem a little high a price for Kerfoot and getting out of half of Subban's contract when they aren't in any sort of a cap crunch.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on December 19, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
I'd want no part of subban, even if NYJ retained the entire salary. He's been traded off two teams now despite putting up good numbers because of his ego; I don't see why Toronto would want to take on that declining output headache, especially in this market.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 19, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on December 19, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
I'd want no part of subban, even if NYJ retained the entire salary. He's been traded off two teams now despite putting up good numbers because of his ego; I don't see why Toronto would want to take on that declining output headache, especially in this market.
He was moved from Nashville in order for them to sign Josi. And last I checked, the fans in Montreal were pissed that he got traded so I don't get your "especially in this market comment. Having said that I don't see NJ retaining 4 mill and I certainly don't want to pay him 9 mill for the next 2 years and whatever is owed this season.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on December 20, 2019, 12:13:21 AM
Quote from: Deebo on December 19, 2019, 10:52:11 PM
I think that's a little rich on the Devils side, a pick in the thirties seem a little high a price for Kerfoot and getting out of half of Subban's contract when they aren't in any sort of a cap crunch.

So upon looking into it the Devils don't have their 2nd rounder this year(Subban) or next(Gusev) so it might be a moot point but I would point out that the Devils have their 1st, will almost certainly have Arizona's 1st and will still probably be deadline sellers on guys like Simmonds and Vatanen. Combine that with having already had 2 of the last 3 1st overall picks and they're in a prime position to be undervaluing a 2nd round pick.

And it's important to remember that the Devils aren't the Leafs. Getting rid of most of a bad contract isn't just a cap issue for them. If they retain 4 million on Subban but can sign someone who's vaguely equivalent to what Subban is giving them for 3 million or so they have a just as good hockey team while saving 2 million dollars in real money.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on December 20, 2019, 12:18:01 AM
Quote from: Frycer14 on December 19, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
I'd want no part of subban, even if NYJ retained the entire salary. He's been traded off two teams now despite putting up good numbers because of his ego; I don't see why Toronto would want to take on that declining output headache, especially in this market.

As GT pointed out he wasn't traded out of Nashville because of "his ego" and with regards to Montreal I wouldn't look at Bergevin's tenure with the club and say "Man, he always correctly judged who was helping his team win".

I think this environment would actually be good for him. Aside from having an established leadership guy like Tavares, absolutely nobody would be looking to Subban to be a star on the team with Matthews and the gang already in that position. He could just be a player on the team. 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on December 30, 2019, 07:27:32 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1211789892868591617

Duh.

Name your good enough defensemen you think the Leafs could get 1-for-1 for each!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on December 30, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: herman on December 30, 2019, 07:27:32 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1211789892868591617

Duh.

Name your good enough defensemen you think the Leafs could get 1-for-1 for each!
Slow day speculation.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bates on December 30, 2019, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: herman on December 30, 2019, 07:27:32 PM
https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1211789892868591617

Duh.

Name your good enough defensemen you think the Leafs could get 1-for-1 for each!

I'd trade Ceci for either if them.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on January 17, 2020, 06:57:23 PM
https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1218262348143759363
Friedman reporter that Bracco would not be enough to land Georgiev. Dreger gets the sense that not even Kapanen 1-for-1 would meet New York's current ask.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: disco on January 17, 2020, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: herman on January 17, 2020, 06:57:23 PM
https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1218262348143759363
Friedman reporter that Bracco would not be enough to land Georgiev. Dreger gets the sense that not even Kapanen 1-for-1 would meet New York's current ask.

Georgiev has half a year left until he's RFA correct? So the young roster player would net you basically a the rest of the year and then a shot at signing a good, young RFA goaltender. If it's just the rental part then Johnsson or Kapanen is too much. But if there's a realistic chance of signing him to like a 3-year deal at a good rate, then I'd say it's worth it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 17, 2020, 07:24:48 PM
I've proposed both Kapanen and Bracco one-for-one at times, knowing that the first one was probably too much and the second too little. As usual, goalies are tricky.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Hobbes on January 17, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
An added wrinkle is that he wouldn't be exempt from the expansion draft which means even assuming he re-signs with us we would have to expose either him or Andersson.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on January 17, 2020, 08:21:11 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on January 17, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
An added wrinkle is that he wouldn't be exempt from the expansion draft which means even assuming he re-signs with us we would have to expose either him or Andersson.
We can't trade for anyone who cannot be protected, it is a law in BC.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on January 17, 2020, 11:00:50 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on January 17, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
An added wrinkle is that he wouldn't be exempt from the expansion draft which means even assuming he re-signs with us we would have to expose either him or Andersson.

As things stand right now, Andersen would be a pending UFA heading I to the expansion draft, which makes for an easier decision.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on January 19, 2020, 11:58:36 AM
I think its time to bite the bullet and make the trade for Georgiev, Freddo is seeing more rubber than a lady in Amsterdams red lite section and Hutch is not always clutch.
Tandam goaltending seems to be becoming more of the new normal and as Busta says perhaps Georgiev becomes the new man. 
If we have to lose a Johnsson or Kapi or even better Kerfoot/Barrie at this point so be it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 19, 2020, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Highlander on January 19, 2020, 11:58:36 AM
I think its time to bite the bullet and make the trade for Georgiev, Freddo is seeing more rubber than a lady in Amsterdams red lite section and Hutch is not always clutch.
Tandam goaltending seems to be becoming more of the new normal and as Busta says perhaps Georgiev becomes the new man. 
If we have to lose a Johnsson or Kapi or even better Kerfoot/Barrie at this point so be it.
I think you do Johnsson, maybe add in Hyman or Bracco and def try to unload CC. I would like
to get back Georgiev along with Lias Andersson or Brendan Lemieux. Don't know too many on the Rangers roster or what's on the farm. I think Andersson would benefit from the Leafs development team.

edited.. just saw that Andersson has a potential for 850K in bonuses so not sure we'd like to take that on unless the plan is to leave him in the minors. I guess scratch him from the list.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on January 31, 2020, 09:49:52 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/01/31/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-january-31/

Let's get this ball rolling
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: disco on January 31, 2020, 11:08:24 PM
I would tender Muzz a very fair offer. During his injury we saw the back-end severely exposed, especially with Rielly out. He brings a calming veteran presence and is the club's best defensive defenseman by far. He also hits in the playoffs. After the Big-4 you're going to need D, and I think he's one you spend some precious cap dollars on. 31 if he signs again, but the Leafs are in a reasonable 5-year window with this core locked up and I see getting value out of him for most of that. Plus I've heard he wants to stay.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 07, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
Bold trade deadline predictions time:

Kapanen + Dermott for Manson + Ritchie
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 07, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 07, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
Bold trade deadline predictions time:

Kapanen + Dermott for Manson + Ritchie

Kapanen + Dermott for Savard and Anderson
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 07, 2020, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 07, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 07, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
Bold trade deadline predictions time:

Kapanen + Dermott for Manson + Ritchie

Kapanen + Dermott for Savard and Anderson
I would do that move. Not sure Columbus would
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on February 08, 2020, 12:14:17 PM
I can't remember for sure, but I've heard Ristolainen's name bantered about. If indeed he was available and not just being shown out there for interest, I'd be trying to get him to solve our problems on RD.
I would gather, that a trade with Buffalo would be hard to do, but I like his style. He's only 25 and the points seem there. I was actually surprised to hear his name, but things are ready to esplode in Buffalo, any second!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on February 08, 2020, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 07, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 07, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
Bold trade deadline predictions time:

Kapanen + Dermott for Manson + Ritchie

Kapanen + Dermott for Savard and Anderson

I think CLB happily takes Kapanen straight up for Anderson and Dermott for Savard too. We may be able to extract a decent pick and/or prospect out of this proposed deal.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 08, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: BlueWhiteBlood on February 08, 2020, 12:14:17 PM
I can't remember for sure, but I've heard Ristolainen's name bantered about. If indeed he was available and not just being shown out there for interest, I'd be trying to get him to solve our problems on RD.
I would gather, that a trade with Buffalo would be hard to do, but I like his style. He's only 25 and the points seem there. I was actually surprised to hear his name, but things are ready to esplode in Buffalo, any second!

Quote from: herman on February 04, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
You need a big strong RHD who can block shots and take the body and clear the net.

https://twitter.com/dimfilipovic/status/1224855213942530050
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 08, 2020, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: herman on February 08, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: BlueWhiteBlood on February 08, 2020, 12:14:17 PM
I can't remember for sure, but I've heard Ristolainen's name bantered about. If indeed he was available and not just being shown out there for interest, I'd be trying to get him to solve our problems on RD.
I would gather, that a trade with Buffalo would be hard to do, but I like his style. He's only 25 and the points seem there. I was actually surprised to hear his name, but things are ready to esplode in Buffalo, any second!

Quote from: herman on February 04, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
You need a big strong RHD who can block shots and take the body and clear the net.

https://twitter.com/dimfilipovic/status/1224855213942530050

LOL, he's stacking the bodies up like firewood. I would definitely love to see him as an add, but I can't imagine Buffalo is going to make that deal (with the Leafs).
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 08, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
No.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 08, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 08, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
No.

R U Sirius?

I'd trade Auston Matthews for Rammin' Rasmus Ristolainen, the Finnish Finisher.  YES I WOULD.

That guy is a bulldozer.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on February 08, 2020, 01:38:46 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 08, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 08, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
No.

R U Sirius?

I'd trade Auston Matthews for Rammin' Rasmus Ristolainen, the Finnish Finisher.  YES I WOULD.

That guy is a bulldozer.

Don't you want to send a 3rd rounder with Matthews to ensure his departure?  :-X ;)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Dappleganger on February 08, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
Quote from: Andy on February 08, 2020, 01:38:46 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 08, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 08, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
No.

R U Sirius?

I'd trade Auston Matthews for Rammin' Rasmus Ristolainen, the Finnish Finisher.  YES I WOULD.

That guy is a bulldozer.

Don't you want to send a 3rd rounder with Matthews to ensure his departure?  :-X ;)

A 3rd rounder that becomes a 2nd rounder if Rasmus gets 2 boarding majors before the end of the season.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on February 08, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: herman on February 04, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
You need a big strong RHD who can block shots and take the body and clear the net.

https://twitter.com/dimfilipovic/status/1224855213942530050


I don't for a second think that Buffalo would entertain a deal with us, but that is definitely the kind of young defenseman I'd like to see on Rielly's other side. I've never seen that clip, but now that I have, I like him even more.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on February 08, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: BlueWhiteBlood on February 08, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: herman on February 04, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
You need a big strong RHD who can block shots and take the body and clear the net.

https://twitter.com/dimfilipovic/status/1224855213942530050


I don't for a second think that Buffalo would entertain a deal with us, but that is definitely the kind of young defenseman I'd like to see on Rielly's other side. I've never seen that clip, but now that I have, I like him even more.
Risto is hugely gaffe prone.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 10, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
Why not both Thornton and Marleau, amirite
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: herman on February 10, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
Why not both Thornton and Marleau, amirite

Sure, Marlies could use some veteran leadership too.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season

I'm coming around to the idea of Thornton for cheap at the deadline. He'd be a good stabilizing defensive presence on the 3rd line, and might even be able to help out the 2nd PP unit.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season

I'm coming around to the idea of Thornton for cheap at the deadline. He'd be a good stabilizing defensive presence on the 3rd line, and might even be able to help out the 2nd PP unit.
Who's coming off the 3rd line and going to the 4th? Kappy, Spezza or Johnsson? I'd take all 3 over Joe at this point. 4th line guy to replace Gauthier, I'm ok with. Also what are you giving up to get him?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: louisstamos on February 11, 2020, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season

I'm coming around to the idea of Thornton for cheap at the deadline. He'd be a good stabilizing defensive presence on the 3rd line, and might even be able to help out the 2nd PP unit.
Who's coming off the 3rd line and going to the 4th? Kappy, Spezza or Johnsson? I'd take all 3 over Joe at this point. 4th line guy to replace Gauthier, I'm ok with. Also what are you giving up to get him?

Thornton for Gauthier.  ;D
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season

I'm coming around to the idea of Thornton for cheap at the deadline. He'd be a good stabilizing defensive presence on the 3rd line, and might even be able to help out the 2nd PP unit.

I'm assuming a few things here: 1) he wants to get traded for a shot at a Cup, 2) he'll pick the Leafs as his first choice team, and 3) the Sharks will basically do whatever he wants to make him happy. All that means the Leafs would be able to acquire him for a cheap price. I'm thinking like Timashov and a late draft pick that could go up a round or two depending how far the Leafs go in the playoffs. Sharks would need to retain 50% of his cap hit too unless Rielly or Ceci are done for the regular season. But imagine a forward group of:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Johnsson-Thornton-Kapanen
Clifford-Engvall-Spezza

I think the Leafs clearly like Kerfoot on the wing and as good as Engvall and Spezza have been this season I don't think they're the absolute best options at 3C, especially if they need that line to take some tough match-ups every now and then.

It leaves Mikheyev on the outside, but I'm not sure we should be counting on him to return this season. If he does that's a nice bonus and the team could figure out how to handle that then.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Tired: The Leafs need to upgrade their defence at the deadline

Wired: The Leafs should acquire Joe Thornton because they haven't had a consistent 3C all season

I'm coming around to the idea of Thornton for cheap at the deadline. He'd be a good stabilizing defensive presence on the 3rd line, and might even be able to help out the 2nd PP unit.

I'm assuming a few things here: 1) he wants to get traded for a shot at a Cup, 2) he'll pick the Leafs as his first choice team, and 3) the Sharks will basically do whatever he wants to make him happy. All that means the Leafs would be able to acquire him for a cheap price. I'm thinking like Timashov and a late draft pick that could go up a round or two depending how far the Leafs go in the playoffs. Sharks would need to retain 50% of his cap hit too unless Rielly or Ceci are done for the regular season. But imagine a forward group of:

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Johnsson-Thornton-Kapanen
Clifford-Engvall-Spezza

I think the Leafs clearly like Kerfoot on the wing and as good as Engvall and Spezza have been this season I don't think they're the absolute best options at 3C, especially if they need that line to take some tough match-ups every now and then.

It leaves Mikheyev on the outside, but I'm not sure we should be counting on him to return this season. If he does that's a nice bonus and the team could figure out how to handle that then.
Why make the 3rd line weaker? Just a few stats...
Spezza 2.6 Points/60, Joe 1.7
Spezza 1.99 Ev Points/60...Joe 1.5
Spezza 8.6 PowerPlayPoints/60...Joe 2.9 (Spezza averages 1:06/game, Joe 1:50/game)
Faceoffs, Spezza 52.6%, Joe, 47%
Again, unless he's going on the 4th line, hard pass for me.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 11, 2020, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Who's coming off the 3rd line and going to the 4th? Kappy, Spezza or Johnsson? I'd take all 3 over Joe at this point. 4th line guy to replace Gauthier, I'm ok with. Also what are you giving up to get him?

I'd organize my lines similar to how CtB posted, and run them both more like 3rd lines, with ice time based on situation, how each group is playing, etc.

I wouldn't give up much for him - a mid round pick (like a conditional 4th or similar), a depth prospect, etc.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
Why make the 3rd line weaker? Just a few stats...
Spezza 2.6 Points/60, Joe 1.7
Spezza 1.99 Ev Points/60...Joe 1.5
Spezza 8.6 PowerPlayPoints/60...Joe 2.9 (Spezza averages 1:06/game, Joe 1:50/game)
Faceoffs, Spezza 52.6%, Joe, 47%
Again, unless he's going on the 4th line, hard pass for me.

1) A Thornton trade wouldn't change how Spezza is used on the powerplay.

2) I'm not really sure the offensive talents between the two players is as big as you think, especially when you factor in how massively different the two team environments are this season. Thornton did put up 51 points in 73 games last season after all. San Jose is just a mess offensively this season (and defensively and in goal).

3) In any event, I'm not proposing the Leafs should look to acquire a 3C for any offensive reasons. It's to improve the forward group defensively, something I think pretty much everyone would agree should be looked at. I've been on the Spezza hype train since the day they signed him, but he's still someone best used in a sheltered role. Come playoff time you can't hide your 3C. Thornton's an underrated defensive player. I'd just be more comfortable with him there if the 3rd line needed to take some shifts against the Bergeron trio or Stamkos/Kucherov or Ovi.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on February 11, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 11, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
Why make the 3rd line weaker? Just a few stats...
Spezza 2.6 Points/60, Joe 1.7
Spezza 1.99 Ev Points/60...Joe 1.5
Spezza 8.6 PowerPlayPoints/60...Joe 2.9 (Spezza averages 1:06/game, Joe 1:50/game)
Faceoffs, Spezza 52.6%, Joe, 47%
Again, unless he's going on the 4th line, hard pass for me.

1) A Thornton trade wouldn't change how Spezza is used on the powerplay.

2) I'm not really sure the offensive talents between the two players is as big as you think, especially when you factor in how massively different the two team environments are this season. Thornton did put up 51 points in 73 games last season after all. San Jose is just a mess offensively this season (and defensively and in goal).

3) In any event, I'm not proposing the Leafs should look to acquire a 3C for any offensive reasons. It's to improve the forward group defensively, something I think pretty much everyone would agree should be looked at. I've been on the Spezza hype train since the day they signed him, but he's still someone best used in a sheltered role. Come playoff time you can't hide your 3C. Thornton's an underrated defensive player. I'd just be more comfortable with him there if the 3rd line needed to take some shifts against the Bergeron trio or Stamkos/Kucherov or Ovi.

I like this idea.  And maybe Thornton can be a calming presence when they get all nervous in those tight games.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 12, 2020, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
2) I'm not really sure the offensive talents between the two players is as big as you think, especially when you factor in how massively different the two team environments are this season. Thornton did put up 51 points in 73 games last season after all. San Jose is just a mess offensively this season (and defensively and in goal).

So would you say that as a hockey team, they have no redeeming qualities at all?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on February 12, 2020, 07:12:30 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on February 12, 2020, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
2) I'm not really sure the offensive talents between the two players is as big as you think, especially when you factor in how massively different the two team environments are this season. Thornton did put up 51 points in 73 games last season after all. San Jose is just a mess offensively this season (and defensively and in goal).

So would you say that as a hockey team, they have no redeeming qualities at all?

Well, they've got Vlasic under contract for another 20 years at $7m per.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 12, 2020, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: Frank E on February 12, 2020, 07:12:30 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on February 12, 2020, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 11, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
2) I'm not really sure the offensive talents between the two players is as big as you think, especially when you factor in how massively different the two team environments are this season. Thornton did put up 51 points in 73 games last season after all. San Jose is just a mess offensively this season (and defensively and in goal).

So would you say that as a hockey team, they have no redeeming qualities at all?

Well, they've got Vlasic under contract for another 20 years at $7m per.

Your defenceman just isn't a defenceman unless it is a Vlasic.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on February 13, 2020, 10:44:01 AM
I approve of this pickle joke.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 13, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on February 13, 2020, 10:44:01 AM
I approve of this pickle joke.
(https://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/c_fill,dpr_auto,q_90,w_920/fl_lossy,pg_1/vmy66dj8j2ktwiugrzfz.jpg)

FTFY
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: louisstamos on February 14, 2020, 01:45:29 PM
Don't know the best place to put it, but Dreger says a deal for Muzzin is imminent.  Lebrun speculating it's $5.5x4:

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1228372887368863746
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 14, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
It's Muzzin's birthday next week

Would you move on from Morgan?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 14, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
$5.5M for 4 years is probably the upper limit of what I'd do.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 14, 2020, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: herman on February 14, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
It's Muzzin's birthday next week

Would you move on from Morgan?
Absolutely not. While he has his defensive faults, he's a great puck mover and his contract is cheap. 2 more years at 5.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 14, 2020, 03:48:14 PM
Would prefer low 5's, but happy with only 4 years.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 14, 2020, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: herman on February 14, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Would you move on from Morgan?

Only if we're getting a comparable quality RHD back.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 14, 2020, 08:50:03 PM
wish it was 2 years, but Robidas Island is just of the coast of the Bettman Sea.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 16, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/1229152496783953920

I would take Blake Coleman
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 16, 2020, 06:03:46 PM
Quote from: herman on February 16, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/1229152496783953920

I would take Blake Coleman
[/quote

He'll go to Boston
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 16, 2020, 06:15:21 PM
Booooooo
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 16, 2020, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: herman on February 16, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/1229152496783953920

I would take Blake Coleman

Yup. He's be a nice addition to the 3rd line.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on February 16, 2020, 07:02:59 PM
I wouldn't want to overpay him as a free agent but yeah, depending on the cost he would be a great addition.  Too bad the Leafs really don't have the assets to acquire forwards with their need to add a defenseman.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 16, 2020, 07:47:54 PM
There was a report Coleman was Colorado bound, but that was denied by his team.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Dappleganger on February 16, 2020, 07:52:03 PM
Blake Coleman and Damon Severson to the Leafs?  ;D
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on February 16, 2020, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: Dappleganger on February 16, 2020, 07:52:03 PM
Blake Coleman and Damon Severson to the Leafs?  ;D
Tampa [emoji24]
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 16, 2020, 08:39:11 PM
Dagnabit
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 16, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Foote and a 1st is a pretty high price to pay.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 16, 2020, 09:07:47 PM
Wow, glad we didn't pay that, holy smokes.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 18, 2020, 11:00:50 AM
We have a Jake, a Jack, and a John. We are missing a Josh.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Trade costs approaching the deadline are high this year, for sure. If Florida surges, and the Leafs struggle in the games they have left between now and the deadline, it might be in their interest for Toronto to sell off their pending UFAs and regroup for next season. With the way Andersen has performed, along with the way the rest of the team has struggled over the past month or so, the odds are against them having much playoff success, if they even get there. Adding a few more bullets for off-season moves, and building up the pipeline a little could certainly be the smart move here.

At the very least, doesn't seem like a good year to try to make a big move at the deadline.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 18, 2020, 01:16:57 PM
I don't mind if the big move is one that would also have been made in the off-season (ex: too 4 RD with term), but no rentals, for the love of gawd.

I'm still a seller.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Barrie's basically our biggest (only?) trade piece as far as pending UFAs go and I'm just not sure the potential return for him would be worth playing the rest of the season with Holl-Marincin-Liljegren down the right side.

Barrie might not have met expectations but he's still our 1RHD, and we're already down our 1LHD. You're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Barrie might not have met expectations but he's still our 1RHD, and we're already down our 1LHD. You're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?

Andy Greene just went for a 2nd round pick. You don't think Barrie returns a fair amount more than that?

I also don't see moving Barrie as giving up on the season. I don't think the team would be significantly worse without him right now. He's not adding much to the offence, and, unless the goaltending turns a corner soon, the change the defensive side of things won't move the needle all that much.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: wnc096 on February 18, 2020, 01:57:41 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Barrie might not have met expectations but he's still our 1RHD, and we're already down our 1LHD. You're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?

Andy Greene just went for a 2nd round pick. You don't think Barrie returns a fair amount more than that?

I agree. if you can get a 1st for Barrie you take it and run
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on February 18, 2020, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PMHe's not adding much to the offence, and, unless the goaltending turns a corner soon, the change the defensive side of things won't move the needle all that much.

Wow, where do I send my first round pick?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Andy Greene just went for a 2nd round pick. You don't think Barrie returns a fair amount more than that?

This shouldn't really come as any surprise but I don't think NHL GMs always value players properly. Greene is a "dependable", "safe", "veteran", "shutdown" defenceman. Barrie's probably seen by a lot of GMs as a guy who only puts up points and can't play defence. I think Barrie does probably get more than Greene, I just don't think it'd be a lot more.

Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
I also don't see moving Barrie as giving up on the season. I don't think the team would be significantly worse without him right now. He's not adding much to the offence, and, unless the goaltending turns a corner soon, the change the defensive side of things won't move the needle all that much.

He's averaging 25:24 in his last 9 games. That's about 2.5 more minutes a game than Muzzin is getting behind him. The team is leaning on him HARD with Rielly and Ceci out. Yeah the offence isn't there (just 3 assists in those 9 games) but his CF% and xGF% numbers are really good. The team just doesn't have anyone who can replace those 25 minutes, otherwise he wouldn't be playing 25 minutes a night.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on February 18, 2020, 02:12:16 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Barrie's basically our biggest (only?) trade piece as far as pending UFAs go and I'm just not sure the potential return for him would be worth playing the rest of the season with Holl-Marincin-Liljegren down the right side.

Barrie might not have met expectations but he's still our 1RHD, and we're already down our 1LHD. You're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?

Johnson isn't tradeable with his injury but we are likely having to move away from one of Kapanen/Johnson in the offseason anyway.  Maybe we get a bigger package for Kapanen as a deadline deal.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: Nik Bethune on February 18, 2020, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PMHe's not adding much to the offence, and, unless the goaltending turns a corner soon, the change the defensive side of things won't move the needle all that much.

Wow, where do I send my first round pick?

He's not adding much to the Leafs' offence, because of their talent level. Law of diminishing returns and such. For a team that doesn't have the level of firepower the Leafs have, he's much more likely to have a noticeably positive impact.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:16:58 PM
It's not outside the realm of possibilities that the Leafs will be 4 points out of a playoff spot by the deadline, with Florida having a game in hand. We need to be realistic about what that would mean.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on February 18, 2020, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
This shouldn't really come as any surprise but I don't think NHL GMs always value players properly. Greene is a "dependable", "safe", "veteran", "shutdown" defenceman. Barrie's probably seen by a lot of GMs as a guy who only puts up points and can't play defence. I think Barrie does probably get more than Greene, I just don't think it'd be a lot more.

I have nothing to back this up in terms of hard data but I suspect that defensive specialists are the most inflated price wise at the deadline.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on February 18, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
He's not adding much to the Leafs' offence, because of their talent level. Law of diminishing returns and such. For a team that doesn't have the level of firepower the Leafs have, he's much more likely to have a noticeably positive impact.

I was kind of just joking there but as someone who's watched the whole team struggle to score over the last week I don't know if I'd look at him as being a big part of a potential solution there either.

That said, I'm not particularly against trading him. I just share the skepticism that there'll be much of a return.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
He's not adding much to the Leafs' offence, because of their talent level. Law of diminishing returns and such. For a team that doesn't have the level of firepower the Leafs have, he's much more likely to have a noticeably positive impact.

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Yeah Barrie only has 3 points in his last 9 games. That's called a slump.

Prior to that he had 25 points in his previous 30 games. Did the Leafs have less firepower in those games?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
He's not adding much to the Leafs' offence, because of their talent level. Law of diminishing returns and such. For a team that doesn't have the level of firepower the Leafs have, he's much more likely to have a noticeably positive impact.

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Yeah Barrie only has 3 points in his last 9 games. That's called a slump.

Prior to that he had 25 points in his previous 30 games. Did the Leafs have less firepower in those games?

He hasn't exactly piling up the primary points at any point in this season. He hasn't really been a significant contributor to the team's offence at any point. Rather, he's been more of a passenger. In fact, with his shot selection, given the players he's on the ice with and the way the Leafs play, an argument can be made he's actually been detrimental to the team's offence.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 02:46:18 PM
He hasn't exactly piling up the primary points at any point in this season. He hasn't really been a significant contributor to the team's offence at any point. Rather, he's been more of a passenger. In fact, with his shot selection, given the players he's on the ice with and the way the Leafs play, an argument can be made he's actually been detrimental to the team's offence.

He was one of the top scoring defencemen in the league during that 30-game stretch. I'm not going to discredit all of that just because he wasn't getting a ton of 1st assists. He was basically our only defenceman producing offence. It's no coincidence that our offence has sputtered lately. 17th in the league in GF/GP during our last 9 games.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 03:02:26 PM
He was one of the top scoring defencemen in the league during that 30-game stretch. I'm not going to discredit all of that just because he wasn't getting a ton of 1st assists. He was basically our only defenceman producing offence. It's no coincidence that our offence has sputtered lately. 17th in the league in GF/GP during our last 9 games.

We're clearly not going to agree on which is the cause, and which the effect. Obviously, I see things the opposite way you do - Barrie's production has dropped because the team's overall offensive output has dropped, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
We're clearly not going to agree on which is the cause, and which the effect. Obviously, I see things the opposite way you do - Barrie's production has dropped because the team's overall offensive output has dropped, not the other way around.

I'm not trying to suggest that there's a direct cause and effect relationship between Barrie and the Leafs offence or that he's is the most important part of the Leafs offence. But no matter how good our forwards are you need contribution from your defence too. And in the Keefe-era Barrie has practically been the only defenceman contributing offensively. He's 4th among all defencemen in 5-on-5 scoring since Keefe was hired. I just think you're understating how replaceable he is. Especially with Rielly already injured.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 18, 2020, 04:16:48 PM
Y'know what'd be fun?

Getting Larsson and Hall on the same (our) team.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on February 18, 2020, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
We're clearly not going to agree on which is the cause, and which the effect. Obviously, I see things the opposite way you do - Barrie's production has dropped because the team's overall offensive output has dropped, not the other way around.

I'm not trying to suggest that there's a direct cause and effect relationship between Barrie and the Leafs offence or that he's is the most important part of the Leafs offence. But no matter how good our forwards are you need contribution from your defence too. And in the Keefe-era Barrie has practically been the only defenceman contributing offensively. He's 4th among all defencemen in 5-on-5 scoring since Keefe was hired. I just think you're understating how replaceable he is. Especially with Rielly already injured.

I wouldn't be against trying to get a haul for him though... I'm tired of letting pending UFAs walk for nothing. You can't expect that kind of strategy to work if you need to keep replenishing the pipeline.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 05:23:59 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
This shouldn't really come as any surprise but I don't think NHL GMs always value players properly. Greene is a "dependable", "safe", "veteran", "shutdown" defenceman.

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1229877162968264705

Am I being punked?

edit: this kind of shows what I mean too though. Would St. Louis have given up a 2nd and a 4th for Barrie? Absolutely not. Would Washington have given up a 2nd and a 3rd for Barrie instead of Brenden Dillon? Nope. Do I think Barrie is a better defenceman than both of them? Yeah.

Not only do I think teams just generally value these types of defencemen more at the trade deadline, but adding them into your line-up and getting them caught up on all your system stuff with just 2 months left in the season is arguably easier/less disruptive to your team.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 18, 2020, 06:17:39 PM
Yes, trade Barrie.  I agree with busta's assessment.  We shouldn't be re-signing him  so move him and get something in return.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 18, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Dubas should use this new found cap space to trade bad contracts that expire this year for picks.  They should trade for Cody Ceci.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on February 18, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Dubas should use this new found cap space to trade bad contracts that expire this year for picks.  They should trade for Cody Ceci.

This is definitely a very interesting idea if the Leafs don't do anything else with Johnsson's LTIR space.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 18, 2020, 07:45:51 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on February 18, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Dubas should use this new found cap space to trade bad contracts that expire this year for picks.  They should trade for Cody Ceci.
Not following. Use cap space for picks? Talking about taking on bad contracts?  If so Leafs are in the playoffs as of now so I don't see them taking on crappy players with bad contracts.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 09:26:37 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PMYou're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?

After the terrible first half against Pittsburgh, I'm even more inclined to say 'yes, it is worth it.'
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on February 18, 2020, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 09:26:37 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 18, 2020, 01:40:18 PMYou're basically giving up on the season. Is that worth a 2nd round pick and an ok prospect?

After the terrible first half against Pittsburgh, I'm even more inclined to say 'yes, it is worth it.'
I know it basically means capitulation on the season but this team is so clearly not there. They just can't hang with the Pittsburgh's and Washington's of the world let alone the Boston or Tampa's.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 19, 2020, 08:57:10 PM
If you're going to blow up the roster to give up on the season, get Taylor Hall for his draft lottery skills.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: herman on February 19, 2020, 08:57:10 PM
If you're going to blow up the roster to give up on the season, get Taylor Hall for his draft lottery skills.

Missing the playoffs but stealing Lafreniere from Detroit and Ottawa would be pretty funny.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 12:15:04 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: herman on February 19, 2020, 08:57:10 PM
If you're going to blow up the roster to give up on the season, get Taylor Hall for his draft lottery skills.

Missing the playoffs but stealing Lafreniere from Detroit and Ottawa would be pretty funny.

A lottery win would be an amazing silver lining.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 20, 2020, 12:52:14 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/02/20/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-february-20/

Rumour roundup. Why is Ristolainen on the list? Because GMs know that floating the Leafs into any media pitch will yield amplified attention.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 01:18:24 PM
https://twitter.com/ryanfancey/status/1230538391059648512
:o :o :o
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 20, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 01:18:24 PM
https://twitter.com/ryanfancey/status/1230538391059648512
:o :o :o


Would Thornton want to come here? I could see him maybe wanting to join Boston for one last run considering he started there.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 20, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Would Thornton want to come here? I could see him maybe wanting to join Boston for one last run considering he started there.

It was a long time ago, and obviously management/coaching has changed, but I don't really think Thornton had fond memories of Boston. They also seem set at C with Bergeron-Krejci-Coyle, unless they move Coyle to the wing.

To answer your question though, who knows.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on February 20, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 18, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Andy Greene just went for a 2nd round pick. You don't think Barrie returns a fair amount more than that?

Huh, I never considered that Barrie wouldn't bring back a first round pick, considering most of the teams interested would likely be pretty late picks, and Barrie does have a lot of points in the bank this year (which I agree, are likely inflated due to the scoring output of the forwards).
Also, he's a right hander, which seems most coveted, and there's a lot of injuries on D around the league. I'd have thought all of this would have played in the leafs' favour to get a decent return.

Ultimately, if it's true there isn't a market for Barrie above a 2nd round pick, I think that we could pretty much agree that Dubas lost on this trade, in a big way.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on February 20, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
Ultimately, if it's true there isn't a market for Barrie above a 2nd round pick, I think that we could pretty much agree that Dubas lost on this trade, in a big way.

That's not really a fair comparison, though. Dubas traded for a full season of Barrie (plus Kerfoot). Any trade now would be for 1/4 of a season.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on February 20, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Send Matthews back to Arizona for Chychrun, Crouse and their 1st.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Deebo on February 20, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on February 20, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Send Matthews back to Arizona for Chychrun, Crouse and their 1st.

Why?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on February 20, 2020, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on February 20, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
Ultimately, if it's true there isn't a market for Barrie above a 2nd round pick, I think that we could pretty much agree that Dubas lost on this trade, in a big way.

That's not really a fair comparison, though. Dubas traded for a full season of Barrie (plus Kerfoot). Any trade now would be for 1/4 of a season.

I'm not sure if I see it that way (if I'm understanding you correctly). Dubas gave up a substantial asset in kadri for a #2 defenseman (and Kerfoot). If that main asset has diminished through the season to the point that we're saying he's worth no more than a 2nd rounder on an expiring contract in a coveted RD position, while Kadri is still on a good number through 21-22, I'd call that an unfortunate trade. No?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on February 20, 2020, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on February 20, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Send Matthews back to Arizona for Chychrun, Crouse and their 1st.

Wow, hard pass.

Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on February 20, 2020, 03:14:20 PM
I'm not sure if I see it that way (if I'm understanding you correctly). Dubas gave up a substantial asset in kadri for a #2 defenseman (and Kerfoot). If that main asset has diminished through the season to the point that we're saying he's worth no more than a 2nd rounder on an expiring contract in a coveted RD position, while Kadri is still on a good number through 21-22, I'd call that an unfortunate trade. No?

The amount of time you have a player absolutely impacts the value. A full season of a player is worth more than a 1/4 season. Barrie's value would have diminished over the course of the season, regardless of how he played. The return at the deadline would never have been the same value as 3 seasons of Kadri. The amount Barrie might fetch at the deadline this year has no bearing as to whether or not the initial trade for him was a good one. They're completely different circumstances, and the two moves do not actually relate to each other, even if the same player is involved in both.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: . on February 20, 2020, 03:52:14 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on February 20, 2020, 03:14:20 PM
I'm not sure if I see it that way (if I'm understanding you correctly). Dubas gave up a substantial asset in kadri for a #2 defenseman (and Kerfoot). If that main asset has diminished through the season to the point that we're saying he's worth no more than a 2nd rounder on an expiring contract in a coveted RD position, while Kadri is still on a good number through 21-22, I'd call that an unfortunate trade. No?

The amount of time you have a player absolutely impacts the value. A full season of a player is worth more than a 1/4 season. Barrie's value would have diminished over the course of the season, regardless of how he played. The return at the deadline would never have been the same value as 3 seasons of Kadri. The amount Barrie might fetch at the deadline this year has no bearing as to whether or not the initial trade for him was a good one. They're completely different circumstances, and the two moves do not actually relate to each other, even if the same player is involved in both.

Yes, I follow, but ultimately, you have to consider the value of each at a given moment in time. I think that the value he has at the end of this season is completely relevant to the success of the trade, because that value represents in large part the contribution that he's made via his play.

If Dubas said, "hey, let's trade Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot, and we should be happy with a 2nd rounder for Barrie as a rental at the end of the season if plans change", I'd be very much not in favor of making that deal, which was supposed to be for a much more impactful dman.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 20, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 20, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Would Thornton want to come here? I could see him maybe wanting to join Boston for one last run considering he started there.

It was a long time ago, and obviously management/coaching has changed, but I don't really think Thornton had fond memories of Boston. They also seem set at C with Bergeron-Krejci-Coyle, unless they move Coyle to the wing.

To answer your question though, who knows.

I'm just looking at the playoff implications.  Unless Thornton has a burning desire to play for the Leafs since he's from London, Ontario, he'd be better off going to Boston who's guaranteed a playoff spot at this point.  Could be a "going home" moment for him as he started there, yes there was a bad split but time heals all wounds.  Also, Thornton would be 4th line center on Boston so no implication to the top 3 center spots.  He could also get PP time and chase his Cup.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Frycer14 on February 20, 2020, 03:52:14 PM
Yes, I follow, but ultimately, you have to consider the value of each at a given moment in time. I think that the value he has at the end of this season is completely relevant to the success of the trade, because that value represents in large part the contribution that he's made via his play.

If Dubas said, "hey, let's trade Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot, and we should be happy with a 2nd rounder for Barrie as a rental at the end of the season if plans change", I'd be very much not in favor of making that deal, which was supposed to be for a much more impactful dman.

If you want to judge a deal retroactively, go ahead. That's not how time or reality works. Barrie not working out as expected is what makes the deal in the summer not so great in hindsight. Barrie only maybe returning a 2nd round pick at the deadline? Not at all. The initial trade should only be judged on it's own merits, not the value the player might return in a later deal made under very different circumstances, trading a different asset (a full season of Barrie is not the same asset as a 1/4 season of Barrie).
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 20, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
I'm just looking at the playoff implications.  Unless Thornton has a burning desire to play for the Leafs since he's from London, Ontario, he'd be better off going to Boston who's guaranteed a playoff spot at this point.  Could be a "going home" moment for him as he started there, yes there was a bad split but time heals all wounds.  Also, Thornton would be 4th line center on Boston so no implication to the top 3 center spots.  He could also get PP time and chase his Cup.

Does Thornton want to win a Cup playing 4C in a city that's practically bored with championships, or does he want to play a slightly larger role in a city where he would instantly become a god if he won? Come home, Joe.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 20, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: Deebo on February 20, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: dekedastardly on February 20, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Send Matthews back to Arizona for Chychrun, Crouse and their 1st.

Why?


I think he must be joking.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on February 20, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 20, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
I'm just looking at the playoff implications.  Unless Thornton has a burning desire to play for the Leafs since he's from London, Ontario, he'd be better off going to Boston who's guaranteed a playoff spot at this point.  Could be a "going home" moment for him as he started there, yes there was a bad split but time heals all wounds.  Also, Thornton would be 4th line center on Boston so no implication to the top 3 center spots.  He could also get PP time and chase his Cup.

Does Thornton want to win a Cup playing 4C in a city that's practically bored with championships, or does he want to play a slightly larger role in a city where he would instantly become a god if he won? Come home, Joe.
Joe, come rejoin the one or two of your beard hairs still deeply embedded in the ice in Toronto!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 20, 2020, 07:42:18 PM
Some practical trade potential acquisitions for the Leaf:  these come with some flexibility contract-wise.

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/maple-leafs-trade-deadline-targets-2020 (https://dailyhive.com/toronto/maple-leafs-trade-deadline-targets-2020)

Kovalchuk as a "rental"?
Thornton?  Ekholm?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: dekedastardly on February 20, 2020, 08:22:56 PM
I wouldn't want any of those guys. Just trade whoever Anaheim wants for Josh Manson.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 20, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 20, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
I'm just looking at the playoff implications.  Unless Thornton has a burning desire to play for the Leafs since he's from London, Ontario, he'd be better off going to Boston who's guaranteed a playoff spot at this point.  Could be a "going home" moment for him as he started there, yes there was a bad split but time heals all wounds.  Also, Thornton would be 4th line center on Boston so no implication to the top 3 center spots.  He could also get PP time and chase his Cup.

Does Thornton want to win a Cup playing 4C in a city that's practically bored with championships, or does he want to play a slightly larger role in a city where he would instantly become a god if he won? Come home, Joe.


I dunno. Does any player really believe they'll finally be the guy to help lead the Leafs to the promised land? Its been 53 years man, he probably picks Boston if those are his 2 choices.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2020, 10:42:38 AM
Friedman and McKenzie seem to be saying the same thing re. Barrie: the Leafs would consider trading him only if it's for another defenceman or for assets they could use to acquire another defenceman right away.

That seems like a tough thing to pull off at the deadline though.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Two sample deals to mull over.  Curious about people's thoughts.  They're not my idea, but come from Twitter, but I'm removing the source for simplicity.

Severson for Engval, Korshkov and 2nd

Manson + pick for Kapanen Dermott likely a prospect

Hopefully less talk about the source...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Andy on February 21, 2020, 06:14:29 PM
"Maybe" a pick? I'm not so sure I'd even take Manson over Dermott straight up...
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Yeah. I don't buy it. Especially with that username.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on February 21, 2020, 06:19:34 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
https://twitter.com/mikelitorus_69/status/1230952135673733120

Grain of salt and all that, figured it might at least generate some discussion.

This twitter guy is Incarcerated Bob, Code, Eklund all over again.   he made a tweet about the LA trade and now he posts a bunch of nonsense and everyone eats it up.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on February 21, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Yeah. I don't buy it. Especially with that username.

I had to read it 3 times, but I got it!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: L K on February 21, 2020, 06:19:34 PM
This twitter guy is Incarcerated Bob, Code, Eklund all over again.   he made a tweet about the LA trade and now he posts a bunch of nonsense and everyone eats it up.

To be fair, he didn't just make a tweet about the LA trade, he nailed it.  But of course, that doesn't mean he's a connected insider, hence grain of salt.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:44:01 PM
I don't like the Seversen deal, but would do the Manson one.  I do think there should be a pick or something coming back with Manson, though.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: L K on February 21, 2020, 06:19:34 PM
This twitter guy is Incarcerated Bob, Code, Eklund all over again.   he made a tweet about the LA trade and now he posts a bunch of nonsense and everyone eats it up.

To be fair, he didn't just make a tweet about the LA trade, he nailed it.  But of course, that doesn't mean he's a connected insider, hence grain of salt.

Yeah. Maybe he's knows a guy who knows a guy, but I don't see any reason to believe he's actually legit.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 06:49:03 PM
Yeah. Maybe he's knows a guy who knows a guy, but I don't see any reason to believe he's actually legit.

Or right place, right time and overheard it.

I wasn't trying to imply he's a legit insider, just thought the two trade proposals seemed reasonable, value wise, and might warrant discussion.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
The Severson deal is close to workable. I'd pass on the Manson one.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
The Severson deal is close to workable. I'd pass on the Manson one.

See, I'm the opposite.  I'd rather keep Engvall over Kapanen long-term, and I think Dermott is expendable with Sandin ready for the show.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 21, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
The Severson deal is close to workable. I'd pass on the Manson one.

See, I'm the opposite.  I'd rather keep Engvall over Kapanen long-term, and I think Dermott is expendable with Sandin ready for the show.

I'm just looking at the value. That's more than I'd give up for Manson (or Severson, if the deals were flipped). The value going out for Severson is much more palatable.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 07:23:23 PM
Fair enough.  I'm ok with giving to get, if the get is good.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2020, 07:23:41 PM
It's pretty obvious what happened with this "Mike" fella. He's either friends or friends of a friend with one of the players involved in the trade. That's how he got advanced notice. That doesn't make him an insider in any way though. He's just trying to get twitter famous off of that. You'll notice he's also advertised some betting company he's involved with in some way. It's all a grift. Don't pay him any attention.

He's also said the Leafs were after Larsson. Surprise surprise. That's 3 of the big name RHD on the market so now if the Leafs get any of them he can act like he called it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 08:10:06 PM
I've removed the source of the trade ideas from my original post, since it obviously resulted in the wrong discussion/direction.

I figured everyone would know to consider him not legit and that there would be no harm just linking the tweet, which seemed easier at the time.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2020, 08:15:33 PM
Even ignoring the source, I doubt either of those trades would work for the other team. Didn't Friedman or someone way that Anaheim would need more than Kapanen for Manson? And I think that makes sense since he has 2 years of contract left vs. someone I've suggested like Savard who only has 1 year left after this one. And Severson is New Jersey's top defenceman, 25, and signed for 3 more seasons. He's getting more than a 3rd/4th liner, a good but not high level prospect, and a 2nd round pick.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
It's Kapanen + Dermott.

And have we decided Engvall has no potential now?
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2020, 08:28:30 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 08:26:48 PM
It's Kapanen + Dermott.

And have we decided Engvall has no potential now?

Ah I missed the Dermott part. Ok value wise it might be there. Just depends on how much Anaheim wants to move Manson. I said before I don't really get why they would.

As for Engvall, I like him as a player but I think he sorta maxes out as a 3rd line guy who can hang on a 2nd line with say Tavares/Nylander or Matthews/Marner but still a 3rd line guy. Most other teams don't have those duos he can piggyback on.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2020, 08:35:16 PM
I think it's much too early to assess Engvall as just a bottom 6 guy.  I agree his top 6 play has benefited from our big dawgs, but even on the 3rd line, he shows good skill and a high IQ.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 21, 2020, 09:25:47 PM
Seravalli saying Leafs have had discussions with Calgary, Barrie for Brodie one for one. I guess Dubas really wants Brodie
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Dappleganger on February 22, 2020, 12:21:57 AM
Quote from: Zee on February 21, 2020, 09:25:47 PM
Seravalli saying Leafs have had discussions with Calgary, Barrie for Brodie one for one. I guess Dubas really wants Brodie

I think Dubas just really likes the analogy of 'shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic'.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 22, 2020, 01:51:04 AM
Brodie's only upside would be this:

QuoteAlthough his numbers haven't been overly impressive this year, his ability to play the right side as a left shooting defenceman makes him a rare asset that other teams covet.

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/flames-players-trade-deadline-2020 (https://dailyhive.com/calgary/flames-players-trade-deadline-2020)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 22, 2020, 10:02:08 AM
Trade chatter roundups
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/02/22/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-february-22/

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/02/21/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-february-21/

Largely the same things being said across the board:
Barrie is now the belle of the backend as a moveable piece on the market due to not being a long term fit for the Leafs and sporting a very nice cap hit. Leafs are looking for someone to commit to and it might take a threeway to figure out. Of course it's very hard to arrange one of those on a tight deadline to ensure everyone is comfortable.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2020, 12:21:02 PM
Quote from: herman on February 22, 2020, 10:02:08 AM
Trade chatter roundups
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/02/22/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-february-22/

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/02/21/toronto-maple-leafs-rumours-february-21/

Largely the same things being said across the board:
Barrie is now the belle of the backend as a moveable piece on the market due to not being a long term fit for the Leafs and sporting a very nice cap hit. Leafs are looking for someone to commit to and it might take a threeway to figure out. Of course it's very hard to arrange one of those on a tight deadline to ensure everyone is comfortable.

(https://i.imgflip.com/3pz8eq.jpg)
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
Don't want to give up Engvall or Kapanen, at this point my man would be Johnsson, it someone would take on the injury, throw in Dermott if you have to.  Rielly, Muzz, Sandin with Kivihalme almost ready gives us a good LHD presence.  Now if Dermott could play the RHD that may be different.
Barrie is our largest trading chip at this point.  He has been a major disappointment.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 22, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
If Tyson Barrie stopped shooting the puck from above the circles, he'd be the best RHD rental for the Leafs.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
Quote from: herman on February 22, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
If Tyson Barrie stopped shooting the puck from above the circles, he'd be the best RHD rental for the Leafs.
Yep, he should be skating the puck into the bottom of the circle or slot and letting them rip.  I guess he is bruising a lot of ankles, probably ours.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 22, 2020, 02:11:50 PM
Quote from: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
Don't want to give up Engvall or Kapanen, at this point my man would be Johnsson, it someone would take on the injury, throw in Dermott if you have to.  Rielly, Muzz, Sandin with Kivihalme almost ready gives us a good LHD presence.  Now if Dermott could play the RHD that may be different.
Barrie is our largest trading chip at this point.  He has been a major disappointment.
Disappointment or not he's playing huge minutes for us and that needs to be replaced. I'm not all that comfortable giving those minutes to Marincin or Liljegren. Leafs need a big minute replacement RHD before they even entertain moving Barrie. Dermott did play on the right side a bit last year.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 03:03:30 PM
Mirtle was suggesting Barrie for Stecher from Van straight up.  Mirtle says "Stecher is undersized, but he plays an aggressive game and is solid defensively. His results in areas like the penalty kill, where he's played off and on in Vancouver, have been strong.
This is what we need, a shut down guy, once Rielly is back he takes first PP, for now we can use Sandin or Muzz.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2020, 03:17:49 PM
Stecher's a 3rd pairing defenceman. Acquiring him doesn't solve the teams problems.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
I know nothing about him, outside of this being Mirtle's number one suggestion.  Perhaps you move Dermott into the 2nd Pair on the RHS and use Sandin and Stecher.
I just don't want to give up an Engvall or Kapanen for a Manson etc.
Barrie is a bigger liability at this point and he is going to walk for zero at the end of the year.  We need to get something back instead of letting guys walk for nothing. to many of those already.
And no I don't want Jake Gardiner back.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 22, 2020, 03:49:32 PM
I like the idea of Vegas being in on Barrie, they have been known to give up pretty good assets in trades. Remember they traded a first, second and third for Tatar.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
I just don't want to give up an Engvall or Kapanen for a Manson etc.

I feel like I've been saying this for a couple years now but if you're not willing to give up a 3rd liner (on this team) for a 1RHD then you'll basically always be stuck with defenders on that side you'll complain about.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: Highlander on February 22, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
I just don't want to give up an Engvall or Kapanen for a Manson etc.

I feel like I've been saying this for a couple years now but if you're not willing to give up a 3rd liner (on this team) for a 1RHD then you'll basically always be stuck with defenders on that side you'll complain about.
What you say is true CTB, I went back and forth for a year or so on whether I would give up Johnsson or Kapanen. Thats an easy answer today.  I would way rather keep Kapi, so unless someone is willing to wait next year for Mango as a future along with Barrie and perhaps Dermott, then anything for Barrie becomes a good deal. 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 22, 2020, 08:33:01 PM
The @MapleLeafs have acquired forward Miikka Salomaki from Nashville in exchange for Ben Harpur.

Details: tml.hockey/2VgAriq
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Stebro on February 23, 2020, 08:19:26 AM
I'm actually starting to lean towards trading one of Marner or Nylander just to send a message, either that or the leafs should fire Dubas if we miss the playoffs. I don't really like what Marner is telling the media. A clear message needs to be sent to the team that no one is untouchable, and you can't play only when you feel like it. I mean how many games have the leafs had where they only play part of the game, and the forwards look really lazy. I know that most teams have bad games, I mean Boston allowed 9 yesterday, but the leafs are extreme in terms of lack of effort.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss. Who are you trading Marner or Nylander for? You don't trade just to send a message. I thought Keefe should have benched 16 and 88 last night. You're top money players aren't allowed to play like they did.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 23, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss. Who are you trading Marner or Nylander for? You don't trade just to send a message. I thought Keefe should have benched 16 and 88 last night. You're top money players aren't allowed to play like they did.

Agreed. Trading a long-term piece to send a message isn't how you make the team better, it's how you get them stuck in the cycle of never being good enough. Yes, the team needs a wake up call, but there are better ways to accomplish that. If you move a core piece, it has to be a 100% objective, analytical, and thought out move, not an emotional one.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: KadriFan on February 23, 2020, 11:15:15 AM
I'd love to see Dubas get bold.  Maybe JT for Petry and Domi.  Things need to get shook up a bit in the top 6. 
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 23, 2020, 11:22:16 AM
Trust the process!
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on February 23, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 23, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss. Who are you trading Marner or Nylander for? You don't trade just to send a message. I thought Keefe should have benched 16 and 88 last night. You're top money players aren't allowed to play like they did.

Agreed. Trading a long-term piece to send a message isn't how you make the team better, it's how you get them stuck in the cycle of never being good enough. Yes, the team needs a wake up call, but there are better ways to accomplish that. If you move a core piece, it has to be a 100% objective, analytical, and thought out move, not an emotional one.

I'm think they probably need to.   It's an offseason move though, not one for the trade deadline tomorrow.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Quote from: L K on February 23, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 23, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss. Who are you trading Marner or Nylander for? You don't trade just to send a message. I thought Keefe should have benched 16 and 88 last night. You're top money players aren't allowed to play like they did.

Agreed. Trading a long-term piece to send a message isn't how you make the team better, it's how you get them stuck in the cycle of never being good enough. Yes, the team needs a wake up call, but there are better ways to accomplish that. If you move a core piece, it has to be a 100% objective, analytical, and thought out move, not an emotional one.

I'm think they probably need to.   It's an offseason move though, not one for the trade deadline tomorrow.
They may very well need to but you better be getting a Seth Jones type D man back.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on February 23, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss.

Before last night I'd have agreed 100%. Now, I'm honestly 50-50.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Stebro on February 23, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
I think that Dubas knows that if the leafs miss the playoffs his job can definately be at stake, the question is if it will have an impact on potential moves before the deadline. I know that Marner, Nylander etc are long term pieces, but when Marner talks so much about effort, and Nylander also is an on and off player, and Matthews says "we just kind of quit", it makes me question whether we build around the right characters or not. We need a better group of leaders. I don't think that this is just a case of being young.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 12:46:40 PM
Quote from: Nik Bethune on February 23, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Dubas isn't getting fired if they miss.

Before last night I'd have agreed 100%. Now, I'm honestly 50-50.
Not happening 100% this year. If this was next year and back to back misses, then probably. He will be given time to shore up the D and right the wrongs.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on February 23, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 12:46:40 PM
Not happening 100% this year.

Like I said, I'm 50-50. I think there's going to be a strong push to hold someone accountable for this if they can't even salvage a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
Quote from: Stebro on February 23, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
I think that Dubas knows that if the leafs miss the playoffs his job can definately be at stake, the question is if it will have an impact on potential moves before the deadline. I know that Marner, Nylander etc are long term pieces, but when Marner talks so much about effort, and Nylander also is an on and off player, and Matthews says "we just kind of quit", it makes me question whether we build around the right characters or not. We need a better group of leaders. I don't think that this is just a case of being young.
Dubas is going to stick to his overall plan. He's not going to make knee jerk trades. Matthews said we kind of quit back in Nov I believe. I haven't seen him quit since. He's arguably been our most consistent player all year and def since Keefe took over. I've said it before, Marner is my biggest concern because he's been "off" or trying to live up to his contract when he should just play. He doesn't have to be a 10 mill player every shift. As for Willy, he's been pretty bad since the flu bug especially in his own end. If you watch him, he stands around a lot not covering anyone and struggles at time getting the puck out. His compete level against the boards at times in also non existent. That's an issue and adds to the JT's line struggles defensively.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 23, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: KadriFan on February 23, 2020, 11:15:15 AM
I'd love to see Dubas get bold.  Maybe JT for Petry and Domi.  Things need to get shook up a bit in the top 6.
Actually I was never a fan of the JT signing (I never got him on the Island), think it was more of a Leafs coming out statement.  I would imagine he has some pretty stringent no trade clauses in his agreement? 
I like the move if we could make it.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 02:30:27 PM
JT has a NMC.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on February 23, 2020, 04:04:36 PM
Thought so, Leaf for Life, he is capable of much better play and leadership.  Time to bring it on Johnny T.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/1231682883049279488
https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1231682422066077709

For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: L K on February 23, 2020, 06:12:42 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/1231682883049279488
https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1231682422066077709

For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.

I mean deadline prices are sometimes crazy but if we get anything near that I'm ecstatic.  Kapanen + 1st + prospects is probably a package good enough to get a decent defenseman too.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/1231682883049279488
https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1231682422066077709

For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.
Pins and needles!!!!! Not.
What do you think Barrie could get? I'm not sure he could get a 1st but who knows. On the right team  Barrie could be a huge add.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on February 23, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/1231682883049279488
https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1231682422066077709

For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.


Only Jim Benning would give up a first and good prospect for Barrie. Unless it's a trade + sign that makes 0 sense for the Canucks
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 23, 2020, 06:20:07 PM
Quote from: L K on February 23, 2020, 06:12:42 PM
I mean deadline prices are sometimes crazy but if we get anything near that I'm ecstatic.  Kapanen + 1st + prospects is probably a package good enough to get a decent defenseman too.
I think you could get Dumba for something like that. Maybe Johnsson goes instead? Who knows tho, I like Kappy and all but I'd like a top RHD more.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on February 23, 2020, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 23, 2020, 07:56:31 PM
https://twitter.com/ryanfancey/status/1231724600662335490
https://twitter.com/tsnhockey/status/1231719323309395969

Wait who is waiting to give us a Shatty for Barrie?

Edit: I clearly read that wrong. Looking for a Shatty return.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on February 23, 2020, 08:12:39 PM
I always get Bogosian and Pietrangelo confused...probably because they were drafted one after the other.
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 23, 2020, 09:23:14 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 23, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/1231682883049279488
https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/status/1231682422066077709

For the record I would be very happy to be wrong about Barrie's trade value.


Only Jim Benning would give up a first and good prospect for Barrie. Unless it's a trade + sign that makes 0 sense for the Canucks

It wouldn't be a first for this year.  Benning gave that up in the Miller trade
Title: Re: Armchair GM 2019-2020
Post by: herman on February 28, 2020, 06:11:27 AM
With Florida looking to cut salary next year after splashing out (way too much) for Bobrovsky (and almost Panarin) and Quenneville, what say we do them a favour and help them out of Ekblad's deal.