Who are the seasoned leader(s) on the Marlies?

[hobarth]

People were quite excited about the Robidas signing last year because they all know and agree that Phanny is not a leader and therefore naturally not a mentor, this appears to be a significant issue with Leaf fans at least especially in regards to Phanny.

Who are the leaders/teachers/mentors of the Marlies, normally I think this would be someone with a great deal of at least AHL experience, who's character is beyond reproach, a previously acknowledged leader probably with a history of having an "A" or "C" on his jersey in the AHL or even better the NHL, someone who record proves that what they say or do is worthwhile and there are probably other traits I've left out.

Many here are all gung ho about proper development so isn't leadership by a certified leader essential especially for the Marlies which might have more talent than TO's opening night roster?

I believe Carrick has been anointed the captain but I wonder if such a marginal talent will have the respect and attention of the potential Leaf saviors, Nylander, Kapanen, Gauthier, etc. 

 

[Highlander]

In the recollection of my youth, age difference mattered a lot. Guys who were three or four years older who hung out with your older brother where like in a plateau above.  If these kidz are 18 and Carrick is 23 and leads by example and effort then why wouldnt they respect him.

 

[hobarth]

I have never played team sports myself but from my readings and listening to commentators during games it seems that the elite are considered leaders whether they are actual leaders or not. Kessel is an elite player but not a leader so many think that removing him also removes his influence which was not conducive to winning. 2 years ago I would've said that McClemment was TO's most consistently involved player but I couldn't see him trying to straighten out/lead Kessel or JVR even tho he hustled every shift. Most teams have their better players be captains because they can lead with their character and because of how they conduct themselves on the ice, they lead by action and results. I would never want a team to simply be satisfied by all out effort because all out effort while visually pleasing isn't necessarily winning hockey, talent and IQ are. People respect and are naturally attracted to achievers rather than the mediocre, a truly accomplished player can say to anyone, that's not good enough we need more, how can a mediocre player like Carrick lead a Nylander or anyone that is truly talented. 

 

[Tigger]

Troy Bodie was the captain for a stretch last year, was Carrick named since? If you look at the list of AHL captains, it isn't filled with all stars.

 

[L K]

Most AHL captains are by definition not very good because they aren't in the NHL.  It's a league of guys 19-25 and a handful of older guys who can't make the NHL.

A pretty reasonable case could be made for TJ Brennan being the captain.

 

[Tigger]

Most AHL captains are by definition not very good because they aren't in the NHL.  It's a league of guys 19-25 and a handful of older guys who can't make the NHL.

A pretty reasonable case could be made for TJ Brennan being the captain.

Yeah, I mean even looking at the NHL there's Ference, Gionta, Mitchell currently. A guy like Tom Fitzgerald comes to mind too. David Steckel is the captain of Norfolk...

If Carrick was named captain I doubt it would be an issue, he's a hard working player, even if a borderline NHL'r.

 

[Kin]

It's a development league. Nobody cares about who the leaders are on a AA baseball team. The leaders are the coaches.

 

[hobarth]

I thought TO brought Robidas in to help lead, mentor but that would be tragic if he's useless as an NHL player but here's a guy with tons of NHL experience who's NHL days have passed him by so what do you do with an overpaid has been? I think his greatest value would be in the AHL as perhaps a captain, he probably still has enough game to play in the AHL and he'd definitely have enough respect to influence the players on the Marlies.

I personally don't care how other teams operate but I do care about the Leafs, I will not accept less than the best as far as grooming the future and following in the footsteps of other organizations, well, I think TO needs to be the trend setter not follower. 

Most AHL captains are by definition not very good because they aren't in the NHL.  It's a league of guys 19-25 and a handful of older guys who can't make the NHL.

A pretty reasonable case could be made for TJ Brennan being the captain.

Yeah, I mean even looking at the NHL there's Ference, Gionta, Mitchell currently. A guy like Tom Fitzgerald comes to mind too. David Steckel is the captain of Norfolk...

If Carrick was named captain I doubt it would be an issue, he's a hard working player, even if a borderline NHL'r.

And how good are those teams, 2 of them are horrible and 1 is treading water, not what I'm looking for from the Leafs.

Most AHL captains are by definition not very good because they aren't in the NHL.  It's a league of guys 19-25 and a handful of older guys who can't make the NHL.

A pretty reasonable case could be made for TJ Brennan being the captain.

I wonder how many players don't make the NHL because they don't/didn't have the proper guidance, I don't know but if TO can possibly improve the players with the right guidance maybe a higher percentage of players graduate and become productive NHLers. There are tons of mega talented players that don't make the NHL for various reasons. I'm hoping TO will produce more NHL players by providing the best possible environment for them to grow, not just settle for what they become thru conventional methods.

Right now TO is attempting to improve thru volume which might have some scientific basis but superior training of that volume will undoubtedly improve TO's odds of improving their product both in the AHL and eventually in the NHL.

I have no idea if Brennan would be a decent leader but experience and success would not be the sole criteria, character and leadership skills would also have to be factored.

It's a development league. Nobody cares about who the leaders are on a AA baseball team. The leaders are the coaches.

My mother used to tell me 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'm looking for the right and it might already be there. I'm talking I think about progressive or new ideas and you are discounting them with little or no thought, yet you accept corsi, you accept TO operating without a GM, have you reached the end of your ability to be open to new ideas?

 

[Tigger]

Robidas is not an AHL quality player, jeebus. Old, yes, declining, yes, AHL? Get bent.

How good those teams are isn't really a reflection on the abilities of their captains directly, and you completely missed the point, again.

You're admitting you have no idea who is a qualified candidate or the potential extent of their influence or how much that matters.

You're not being progressive or providing new ideas here, mostly trolling.

 

[hobarth]

Robidas is not an AHL quality player, jeebus. Old, yes, declining, yes, AHL? Get bent.

How good those teams are isn't really a reflection on the abilities of their captains directly, and you completely missed the point, again.

You're admitting you have no idea who is a qualified candidate or the potential extent of their influence or how much that matters.

You're not being progressive or providing new ideas here, mostly trolling.

Is it nice in your world, I don't know or care but I think it best if you not include us in it!

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'll take ways to make the rest of the league avoid you like the plague for $500 please Alex.

Robidas lives away from his kids so he can continue as an NHL'er, he's talked about how big a sacrifice that is before.

I suspect he'd retire if demoted without a realistic shot at near immediate recall.

Heck he's so well regarded as a pro, it wouldn't shock me to see a cap floor team snag him on waivers.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Pittsburgh should send Crosby to their AHL team. Having a proven winner around the lockerroom like that would do wonders for their minor leaguers.

 

[hobarth]

I'm talking innovation but most are not prepared to open their minds and hope to see the Leafs change the landscape maybe hopefully for the better? The indignation is mind boggling but becoming understandable.

I mentioned Robidas and maybe Robidas isn't the right person so people in the know about Robidas' personal sacrifices react with, "I'll take ways to make the rest of the league avoid you like the plague for $500 please Alex", instead of acknowledging there might be some merit in the suggestion instead of fixating on Robidas.

The bullies on here are nit pickers, totally resistant to any concepts that deviate from the order that is their world, not only are they resistant but they are totally prepared to bully anyone that might suggest there are other ways, small minds get small results.

I enjoy the exchange but I don't see the need for the bullying, let us try to exchange ideas freely, of free and open mind, rather than bullying. 

 

[bustaheims]

 

[bustaheims]

As others have mentioned, there's absolutely nothing progressive or innovative about what you're proposing. Veteran leadership? That's the definition of an old school way of doing things. Sending older players to the AHL? That's been happening since the league started using a minor league system. Trying the two together? Been done to death.

Also, there's a huge difference between a leader and a mentor. Leadership is about bringing a group together and inspiring them to be the best they can be. Mentorship is about one on one guidance. Whether Phaneuf is a leader or not has absolutely no bearing on his ability to be a mentor. Being a successful mentor requires a personal connection between the mentor and the student. You can't just throw a veteran into a situation and have it work - especially if that's not what that player signed up for. Nik is absolutely right. At the AHL level, the most important leaders and mentors are the coaching staff. Older players would just be taking roster spots and playing time away from players the Leafs are trying to develop.

 

[Tigger]

Robidas is not an AHL quality player, jeebus. Old, yes, declining, yes, AHL? Get bent.

How good those teams are isn't really a reflection on the abilities of their captains directly, and you completely missed the point, again.

You're admitting you have no idea who is a qualified candidate or the potential extent of their influence or how much that matters.

You're not being progressive or providing new ideas here, mostly trolling.

Is it nice in your world, I don't know or care but I think it best if you not include us in it!

Folks in my world wonder who you'd choose to be captain of the Marlies and why it's a such a meaningful distinction, especially considering that you claim to only watch the Leafs, not the Marlies or junior. ( and yeah, leave Robidas out of it )

 

[hobarth]

As others have mentioned, there's absolutely nothing progressive or innovative about what you're proposing. Veteran leadership? That's the definition of an old school way of doing things. Sending older players to the AHL? That's been happening since the league started using a minor league system. Trying the two together? Been done to death.

Also, there's a huge difference between a leader and a mentor. Leadership is about bringing a group together and inspiring them to be the best they can be. Mentorship is about one on one guidance. Whether Phaneuf is a leader or not has absolutely no bearing on his ability to be a mentor. Being a successful mentor requires a personal connection between the mentor and the student. You can't just throw a veteran into a situation and have it work - especially if that's not what that player signed up for. Nik is absolutely right. At the AHL level, the most important leaders and mentors are the coaching staff. Older players would just be taking roster spots and playing time away from players the Leafs are trying to develop.

I like this, this is discussion/debate which is why I figured this site was all about.

I do disagree with the concept that the minor league teams are exclusively devoted to development, generally they are all about winning and basically hoping that the players there are developing because of the winning. A classic example would be Kadri who both Wilson and BB felt would make a better winger than center yet the few minor games I watched had him playing center, a major disconnect. Another example would be Colborne who obviously didn't have the talent to be a top 6 player with the Leafs yet thru his entire Marlie AHL career he was used as the #1 center.

On the Leafs there are at least 3 coaches who we're told aren't there to coach, at least according to RC, why doesn't TO have double that number of coaches or even more so that individual attention is actually paid to those who need it, if not coaches then mentors. I get the impression that it's a forgone conclusion that Nylander will return to the Marlies to learn how to play center, fair enough I guess, but we do know that Nylander has already achieved impressively in Europe and in the AHL both as a winger and center.

I think you can mentor a person but if you don't have their respect then the value of the mentoring would be doubtful. AHL players respect players in the show or have been in the show, respect is the foundation of mentoring. Roster spots in the AHL are always going to be wasted as the vast majority of Marlies will never make the NHL, having players/mentors to foster player development is far more practical than having a roster spot filled by someone with no NHL potential, a roster filler.

I've always felt that teams have placed winning at all levels below the NHL to high, I prefer that development be front and center and I suspect  that winning will soon follow. Kadri was used in the AHL as a center because the Marlies had no better options, Colborne was a #1 center because of lack of options and there was some hope that the Marlies might win with them in those roles, development be dammed, win at all costs.

There is old school that has been done to death but was it done to death right, some old ideas are right but are never really properly implemented, Detroit has often left their prospects in the minors till they were over ripe and many have cited this as exemplary but I think it's a waste, true development might salvage some players who otherwise may never have made it to the NHL but otherwise the AHL often seems the place when teams dump players they aren't sure what to do with.

 

[Kin]

My mother used to tell me 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'm looking for the right and it might already be there. I'm talking I think about progressive or new ideas and you are discounting them with little or no thought, yet you accept corsi, you accept TO operating without a GM, have you reached the end of your ability to be open to new ideas?

I'm open to any new idea so long as it's based on facts(Corsi) or comes with a well reasoned argument(the semantics of job titles not being important).

This is neither.

 

[hobarth]

My mother used to tell me 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'm looking for the right and it might already be there. I'm talking I think about progressive or new ideas and you are discounting them with little or no thought, yet you accept corsi, you accept TO operating without a GM, have you reached the end of your ability to be open to new ideas?

I'm open to any new idea so long as it's based on facts(Corsi) or comes with a well reasoned argument(the semantics of job titles not being important).

This is neither.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it fine, me I'm looking for TO to become better by any means possible and the quicker the better because I don't want to endure 5 or more years of TO being miserably bad like the Oilers have been. I pretty sure TO's future is going to be very closely tied to how the Marlies are going to be handled so I'm looking for something better that will benefit the organization from top to bottom.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I have complete, 100% faith in Dubas and Keefe handling the Marlies/the teams development resources. Our prospects are in good hands.