Rick Nash potentially available

[Erndog]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

 

[maplesyrup]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

Better question... Do we want to be asking somewhere down the road; Why didn't we beat that?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

Dubinsky's been having a pretty bad season too.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

Better question... Do we want to be asking somewhere down the road; Why didn't we beat that?

That contract is a bit of a stumbling block. Not saying I wouldn't do it, but there is definitely some cause for hesitation.

 

[maplesyrup]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

Better question... Do we want to be asking somewhere down the road; Why didn't we beat that?

That contract is a bit of a stumbling block. Not saying I wouldn't do it, but there is definitely some cause for hesitation.

Would you rather pay 7.8 to Nash next year or 7.8 to Connolly and Armstrong?

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Would you rather pay 7.8 to Nash next year or 7.8 to Connolly and Armstrong?

That's not the question here, as you're not trading those two for Nash.

Take a look at Nash's career points and tell me you are comfortable paying him 7.8 mil per year until 2018. The guy is basically a 65 point player. Most teams give long term to get a break on $, but Columbus had to give him both just to keep him from jumping as a UFA.

 

[Erndog]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

Dubinsky's been having a pretty bad season too.

Yup.  He's basically on par with Kulemin for 2 years now.

Dubinksy, 25 years old, $4.2M

51 games, 6 goals, 18 assists, 24 pts, + 13
(Last year 24 goals, 54 points)
-----------------------------------

Kulemin, 25 years old, $2.35M

56 games, 5 goals, 18 assists, 23 points, + 2
(last year 30 goals, 57 points).


Kulemin = Dubinsky (at roughly half the cost!)
Kadri = Kreider
Our first will likely be better than the Rangers first
Heck, throw in Aulie or Holzer

 

[maplesyrup]

That's not the question here, as you're not trading those two for Nash.

Take a look at Nash's career points and tell me you are comfortable paying him 7.8 mil per year until 2018. The guy is basically a 65 point player. Most teams give long term to get a break on $, but Columbus had to give him both just to keep him from jumping as a UFA.

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

That's not the question here, as you're not trading those two for Nash.

Take a look at Nash's career points and tell me you are comfortable paying him 7.8 mil per year until 2018. The guy is basically a 65 point player. Most teams give long term to get a break on $, but Columbus had to give him both just to keep him from jumping as a UFA.

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

There is no way he justifies that salary unless he puts up over a point per game every year and is a threat to win the Rocket every year.

Hitting a few guys doesn't make up for the $2 million per year he is overpaid by.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

That's not the question here, as you're not trading those two for Nash.

Take a look at Nash's career points and tell me you are comfortable paying him 7.8 mil per year until 2018. The guy is basically a 65 point player. Most teams give long term to get a break on $, but Columbus had to give him both just to keep him from jumping as a UFA.

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

There is no way he justifies that salary unless he puts up over a point per game every year and is a threat to win the Rocket every year.

Hitting a few guys doesn't make up for the $2 million per year he is overpaid by.

Burke is already overpaying Lombardi, Komisarek, Connoly, Phaneuf and Armstrong. What's Nash to that list.

 

[bustaheims]

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

He pretty much has to be on par with guys like Stamkos and Malkin to be worth that cap hit, and I really don't see that in him.

 

[bustaheims]

So a lot of rumours about Rick Nash and the Rangers.  Pierre McGuire was even discussing it, at length, this morning on the Team 1200.

The rumoured deal is Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider and a 1st round pick.

Question:  Can we not beat that?  I love Dubinsky, and I realize Kreider is a very good prospect, but it's not a blow your socks off package by any means... also, do we WANT to beat that?

I think the more important question is whether or not there's any truth to that rumoured deal. Every other rumour I've seen about Nash says the price is "ridiculously high," and, quite frankly, that deal doesn't fit. I'm not sure Columbus even moves Carter for that, never mind Nash.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Burke is already overpaying Lombardi, Komisarek, Connoly, Phaneuf and Armstrong. What's Nash to that list.

Three of those players were signed as UFA's. Every UFA is overpaid. That is the price you have to pay to get a player without giving up any assets in a trade.

The other two were given those contracts by other teams, and were only available in a trade because they are overpaid. Having an overpaid Phaneuf and Lombardi (and, by extension, Franson) is better than not having players of that quality.

 

[maplesyrup]

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

He pretty much has to be on par with guys like Stamkos and Malkin to be worth that cap hit, and I really don't see that in him.

I don't think it's an insane number for him. He's still a very, very good hockey player... and for what it's worth, I think Malkin and Stamkos are pretty much bargains. I mean, you're talking about two of the top 5 players in the league.

 

[Erndog]

Fair enough. Still, he's a talented enough player with loads of potential to be worth his hit I think.

He pretty much has to be on par with guys like Stamkos and Malkin to be worth that cap hit, and I really don't see that in him.

That's not entirely true.

Guys in the $7M+ range are:  Doughty, Iginla, Thornton, Spezza, Vanek, Campbell, Gomez, Weber, Stamkos, Gaborik, Heatley, Lecavalier, Staal, then the obvious Malkin, Crosby, Ovy.

I'd rather have Nash than a number of those guys.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't think it's an insane number for him. He's still a very, very good hockey player... and for what it's worth, I think Malkin and Stamkos are pretty much bargains. I mean, you're talking about two of the top 5 players in the league.

And 2 of the 7 biggest cap hits in the league (which, to my mind, makes it hard to see them as bargains - they're paid what they're worth relative to other salaries in the league). Nash has one of the 5 biggest cap hits in the league. To justify that, he has to play/produce like one of the top 5-10 players in the league, and, I'm not sure he's capable of that - at least, not consistently enough to justify his salary/cap hit.

 

[bustaheims]

That's not entirely true.

Guys in the $7M+ range are:  Doughty, Iginla, Thornton, Spezza, Vanek, Campbell, Gomez, Weber, Stamkos, Gaborik, Heatley, Lecavalier, Staal, then the obvious Malkin, Crosby, Ovy.

I'd rather have Nash than a number of those guys.

Sure, but most of those contracts also have 2 or less seasons remaining on them after this one, whereas Nash has 6. Outside of the Campbell and Lecavalier mistakes, most of the players you'd take Nash over will be earning much less long before Nash does. He has the 5th biggest cap hit in the league, and he has that number for 6 seasons after this one, and, based on his production and contracts for players with similar numbers, he's overpaid by at least $2M.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't think it's an insane number for him. He's still a very, very good hockey player... and for what it's worth, I think Malkin and Stamkos are pretty much bargains. I mean, you're talking about two of the top 5 players in the league.

And 2 of the 7 biggest cap hits in the league (which, to my mind, makes it hard to see them as bargains - they're paid what they're worth relative to other salaries in the league). Nash has one of the 5 biggest cap hits in the league. To justify that, he has to play/produce like one of the top 5-10 players in the league, and, I'm not sure he's capable of that - at least, not consistently enough to justify his salary/cap hit.

Not really sure where you're going with this. You don't like the contract. Fine. What are the options though? Struggle through mediocrity until a top 10 player with a bargain contract becomes available? Good luck with that. If Nash becomes available, and they arent asking us to gut the team to make the deal, you do it.

 

[bustaheims]

Not really sure where you're going with this. You don't like the contract. Fine. What are the options though? Struggle through mediocrity until a top 10 player with a bargain contract becomes available? Good luck with that. If Nash becomes available, and they arent asking us to gut the team to make the deal, you do it.

Well, what you really need to ask yourself is does adding Rick Nash, with all the costs associated in terms of assets and cap hit, make the Leafs a Cup contender this year or in the near future? And, if we're being totally honest about the situation the team is in, the answer to that question is almost certainly "No." In fact, because of what it would cost in terms of assets to acquire him and because of how much of the Leafs' cap he'd take up in addition to some of the other pricey contracts that will remain on the books for the next few seasons, there's a good chance that adding Nash's $7.8M to the books while sacrificing a fair amount of talent/assets to bring it here would only serve to put the Leafs into a position where they'll stagnant or only show marginal improvements. As much as I would love the Leafs to add a top 10 player, do so at any cost is reckless and it's poor roster management. I'd much prefer to see the Leafs further improve their depth, strengthen their goaltending and improve their farm system than add a single player that won't serve to put them over the top.

 

[Redleaf]

Not really sure where you're going with this. You don't like the contract. Fine. What are the options though? Struggle through mediocrity until a top 10 player with a bargain contract becomes available? Good luck with that. If Nash becomes available, and they arent asking us to gut the team to make the deal, you do it.

Well, what you really need to ask yourself is does adding Rick Nash, with all the costs associated in terms of assets and cap hit, make the Leafs a Cup contender this year or in the near future? And, if we're being totally honest about the situation the team is in, the answer to that question is almost certainly "No." In fact, because of what it would cost in terms of assets to acquire him and because of how much of the Leafs' cap he'd take up in addition to some of the other pricey contracts that will remain on the books for the next few seasons, there's a good chance that adding Nash's $7.8M to the books while sacrificing a fair amount of talent/assets to bring it here would only serve to put the Leafs into a position where they'll stagnant or only show marginal improvements. As much as I would love the Leafs to add a top 10 player, do so at any cost is reckless and it's poor roster management. I'd much prefer to see the Leafs further improve their depth, strengthen their goaltending and improve their farm system than add a single player that won't serve to put them over the top.

I agree with your logic. But that sounds more like a traditional style of rebuild to me. Burke has said many times that he's not interested in this approach. He's made it clear that he plans to fast track it. Whether or not it's the right way to do it, I have to think he would be very interested in acquiring Rick Nash right now for the right package. He's already on record saying he was very involved in the Brad Richards sweepstakes. What does that say about the direction he's taking with this team? It doesn't sound like the one you've laid out to me.