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Minor Ex-Leaf News

I'm not clear on the performance bonus grievance. I think Marner got schedule A.
Matthews got Schedule B but who could foresee winning the lottery and the exceptional nature of that?
Many 4th overall picks did get schedule B
What of Schedule B would Marner have got?
The team was under cap pressure. $5 mil in performance bonuses in 2017 ...
I'm not clear on why that would be an enormous grievance for Marner.
I took a quick look at this
I might have missed something ...
Marner was 4th in league assists in 2018-19 which would have resulted in a $120,000 performance B bonus
Other than that, he didn't seem to get enough trophy votes, goals, pts, ppg etc to qualify for any other performance B bonuses over the 3 year entry deal.

I do not see that as a big grievance.
They gave him $65.4 mil on his next 6 year contract. It could have been $65.3 and they tacked on $100k to make up the performance B omission. It is a tiny 0.1% difference in the next contract.
When they said they were not going to give out performance B bonuses, they had no way of knowing they were going to win the lottery and get Matthews.
That claim smells like BS media posturing by Ferris to me.
 
That certainly fair, and I'm not saying the claims are baseless. But one side keeps bringing them up and treating these as cardinal sins that led to the player's decision to... play here for another full 6 years and stay for the entire duration because it was sooooo bad?

I think we can all see with actual on-ice, on-camera, written statements, and hiring decisions, that the Leafs did everything they could to support and optimize Marner in Toronto. I can't say they did it perfectly, but it's all on the table: hired vaunted sports therapists, top line minutes even when it stopped working, every special team assignment even when it stopped working, ludicrous second contract, put him front and centre on all the fun happy publicity and marketing, sheltered him from speaking to press after games, gave talking points to his teammates to extol his virtues, fired the GM that had a longstanding policy of not paying schedule Bs because he liked to put the team ahead of the individual (but made an organizational exception for a 1st overall pick), fired the coach that kept him apart from more points for the coach that tied him at the hip to a generational scoring centre, fired the GM that was hinting at trading him (or more likely Willy, who they've reportedly market-checked basically every offseason)...

And on the other side of the ledger, Ferris is essentially saying the Leafs tried to negotiate a lower salary and then tried to trade him when he clearly wasn't going to extend. Are these not standard operating procedures for any and all sports organizations?

I'm having trouble naming one player that was treated with softer velvet gloves by the Leafs than Marner, who could have very easily been the most beloved hometown draft pick ever (and was for that first 4 years since he was drafted).
Ferris also brought up the carjacking which has nothing to do with the Leafs or fans. It's grievance after grievance even where none exists - so much of what Ferris said is based on a very narrow view of events and not close to objective reality (Mitch being the ONLY one criticized for playoff performance for example).

To make things work in any relationship sometimes you have to bury the hatchet - if my fiancee and I had grievances at each other for every minor issue we'd be long broken up. I don't know how the Leafs and Marner could have ever worked out if the schedule B bonuses were forever held against them, even with 3 separate GMs.
 
That certainly fair, and I'm not saying the claims are baseless. But one side keeps bringing them up and treating these as cardinal sins that led to the player's decision to... play here for another full 6 years and stay for the entire duration because it was sooooo bad?

I think we can all see with actual on-ice, on-camera, written statements, and hiring decisions, that the Leafs did everything they could to support and optimize Marner in Toronto. I can't say they did it perfectly, but it's all on the table: hired vaunted sports therapists, top line minutes even when it stopped working, every special team assignment even when it stopped working, ludicrous second contract, put him front and centre on all the fun happy publicity and marketing, sheltered him from speaking to press after games, gave talking points to his teammates to extol his virtues, fired the GM that had a longstanding policy of not paying schedule Bs because he liked to put the team ahead of the individual (but made an organizational exception for a 1st overall pick), fired the coach that kept him apart from more points for the coach that tied him at the hip to a generational scoring centre, fired the GM that was hinting at trading him (or more likely Willy, who they've reportedly market-checked basically every offseason)...

And on the other side of the ledger, Ferris is essentially saying the Leafs tried to negotiate a lower salary and then tried to trade him when he clearly wasn't going to extend. Are these not standard operating procedures for any and all sports organizations?

I'm having trouble naming one player that was treated with softer velvet gloves by the Leafs than Marner, who could have very easily been the most beloved hometown draft pick ever (and was for that first 4 years since he was drafted).
I think the Leafs do a lot to support all their players. Whether it's starting an all Swedish line after Borge Salming died, to making sure that players get taken care of properly when they are injured, like when Dubas stayed in Jersey when Mikheyev got hurt. It wasn't like they were solely bending over backward just for Mitch Marner. They did stuff for other players as well.

I don't agree with Ferris's statements. I don't think it's the Leafs job to come out and handle all the negative things that can be said about a player. I actually think that's kind of impossible. If you look at the time when Matthews got in trouble for mooning a security guard, the Leafs didn't protect Matthews from that.

Here's the thing though, I don't necessarily think that Mitch felt the way that Ferris is outlining it. I think it's just Ferris trolling Leaf fans, not necessarily Marner himself. Should Marner tell Ferris to shut the hell up? Probably, but maybe Marner isn't even aware that he is saying this stuff. Attributing Ferris's personal opinions of the Leafs back to Marner is probably a bit of a stretch.

For Marner's part, he always looked uncomfortable in the media. He did get held up at a mall. He did take a lot of heat from fans. If Marner wasn't happy in Toronto, I can say I understand it. I don't think he ever directly torpedoed the team. I think he just said he needed a change, and I can kind of see why he wanted one. Sittler didn't get death threats. Now maybe Marner didn't either, but if he did, think about that for a minute. Do you want to live in that environment? It's a little over the top in my opinion over the outcome of a hockey game.

At the end of the day it didn't work out here. The team and the player were mismatched, probably due to missteps on both sides of the ledger. It looked so promising at the start. Uber talented Toronto boy playing for his home town team. Match made in heaven that ended in a bitter divorce.
 
I think the Leafs do a lot to support all their players. Whether it's starting an all Swedish line after Borge Salming died, to making sure that players get taken care of properly when they are injured, like when Dubas stayed in Jersey when Mikheyev got hurt. It wasn't like they were solely bending over backward just for Mitch Marner. They did stuff for other players as well.

I don't agree with Ferris's statements. I don't think it's the Leafs job to come out and handle all the negative things that can be said about a player. I actually think that's kind of impossible. If you look at the time when Matthews got in trouble for mooning a security guard, the Leafs didn't protect Matthews from that.

Here's the thing though, I don't necessarily think that Mitch felt the way that Ferris is outlining it. I think it's just Ferris trolling Leaf fans, not necessarily Marner himself. Should Marner tell Ferris to shut the hell up? Probably, but maybe Marner isn't even aware that he is saying this stuff. Attributing Ferris's personal opinions of the Leafs back to Marner is probably a bit of a stretch.

For Marner's part, he always looked uncomfortable in the media. He did get held up at a mall. He did take a lot of heat from fans. If Marner wasn't happy in Toronto, I can say I understand it. I don't think he ever directly torpedoed the team. I think he just said he needed a change, and I can kind of see why he wanted one. Sittler didn't get death threats. Now maybe Marner didn't either, but if he did, think about that for a minute. Do you want to live in that environment? It's a little over the top in my opinion over the outcome of a hockey game.

At the end of the day it didn't work out here. The team and the player were mismatched, probably due to missteps on both sides of the ledger. It looked so promising at the start. Uber talented Toronto boy playing for his home town team. Match made in heaven that ended in a bitter divorce.
Ferris is employed by Marner and Mariner's camp and acts literally as Marner's representation. Why would Ferris be nothing but as onside to what Marner and his camp think? Why troll the fanbase when he comes back in the offseason and it would make his life harder? I really don't see a world in which Marner is aware of all the things that are said about him but he knows nothing of what his agent does or says about him.

We all know it didn't work out. But dredging up the past now literally does Marner no favours, and probably the same for Ferris.
 
Ferris is employed by Marner and Mariner's camp and acts literally as Marner's representation. Why would Ferris be nothing but as onside to what Marner and his camp think? Why troll the fanbase when he comes back in the offseason and it would make his life harder? I really don't see a world in which Marner is aware of all the things that are said about him but he knows nothing of what his agent does or says about him.

We all know it didn't work out. But dredging up the past now literally does Marner no favours, and probably the same for Ferris.
Ferris is in a media interview. He's asked about a few of his clients or transactions. Marner was just one of them. Answering media questions about his clients/transactions is not trolling the Leafs fanbase. Some Leafs fans who swallowed bunches of the media spin on Marner might feel that way but Ferris presented some new facts that countered some of that media - like his ankle was fractured in the Boston series or there wasn't a trade figured out with Carolina. Ferris in the media probably helps him acquire more clients. I do not agree with everything he said but representing his client to the media and answering questions from the media is part of his job as is standing up for the player he represents. Taking the media's word for it: hook, line and sinker doesn't work for a lot of people. Just like I don't accept everything he says ...

Where is the mention of Marner's fractured ankle in this media hit piece?:
Lots of articles making excuses for Matthews injuries.
Ferris did his client a service by correcting that.

Berube also weighed in
Q: "Who was the player or players that were the emotional centerpiece of that Leafs team though that when you were there for two years?"

A: "Oh, Mitch Barner. .... for sure ..
... I thought Mitch Mitch was the energy and the, you know, he he brought the energy and the emotion to the game, I thought,
on a nightly basis and in practice, you know, um vocal guy, you know, chatted a lot on the bench, chatted a lot in
practice, brought the energy. Um, you know, if he he came back to the bench, he let guys know, you know, pick it up,
let's go. You know, he was um he was great. Um, I thought, um, I really enjoyed coaching him."

Q: "So, when he left, I guess then, not only did you lose the one of your offensive talents or your all-around talents, you
lost you were devoid of an emotional centerpiece."

A: "Uh, I thought we lost our emotional leader for sure. Um, you know, I thought that, um, and it was a big loss, not
only the player, but that side of it, too, you know, in the locker room, on the bench, in practices, things like that. I thought that he brought that
element. I thought he held guys accountable."

Q: "So, injuries were a big factor your second year there?"

A: "Yes"

Q: ""But, yes, that aside, ...

A: .... never really found that winger to play with Matthews.
um you know just the chemistry um of your number one line.
...

Q: "But injuries were huge. Tanev was a huge loss. Basically lost him for the year. Um he was a corner piece back
there in the back end and you know Mitch was the guy up front. He was the guy on on the back end, right? And you didn't have either one of them?"

A: "No."

Berube seems on the level there.

These testimonies reduce the media conjecture. I do not think that is a bad thing. Whether it is the media, Berube or Ferris or someone else, you have to weigh what they have to say. I don't think any of them are 100% lying. There are nuggets of facts and seemingly heartfelt opinion that move us closer to the truth we'll never completely know of what went on.
 
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Ferris is employed by Marner and Mariner's camp and acts literally as Marner's representation. Why would Ferris be nothing but as onside to what Marner and his camp think? Why troll the fanbase when he comes back in the offseason and it would make his life harder? I really don't see a world in which Marner is aware of all the things that are said about him but he knows nothing of what his agent does or says about him.

We all know it didn't work out. But dredging up the past now literally does Marner no favours, and probably the same for Ferris.
I guess I just meant specifically when Ferris says "I don't think the organization did enough to protect Mitch Marner". I'm not sure that is exactly how Marner feels. Marner could have the feeling that "I just didn't feel safe in Toronto" and Ferris spun it to be "The organization didn't protect him".

I will never know exactly how Marner feels, as I will never talk to him in my life. However, I can see a scenario where Marner accepted that if he stayed in Toronto, if the Leafs didn't succeed in the playoffs, then he would be the one that received a lions share of the blame, no matter what he did. In the game of hockey, sometimes the result is out of the individual players hands. In this scenario, he decides, that's not the life he wants. He doesn't want to be the person who takes most of the blame if he's not the captain, and he's not going to be the highest paid player on the team, and he's not going to have certain assurances. That's a decision he gets to make. There is no fault there. He looked at his life and said "This isn't right for me". Then that hits the media cycle and now everything has to be someones fault. It's either the Leafs fault or Marner's fault because it should have just worked out somehow. Well it didn't. It was probably the same process for John Tavares. That one just happened to work out in the Leafs favour.

It's along the same lines as the narrative that because Nylander isn't going to ever win a Selke trophy he doesn't care about winning. I think Nylander does what he thinks is best in a game to give his team the best chance to win. Unfortunately, sometimes what Nylander thinks is best, is not actually what is best. But because Nylander is talented, and because he has won in the past, he shrugs off that criticism and just keeps on doing what he is doing because he thinks it's going to pan out some day. I'm interested to see what effect missing the playoffs last year will have on how Matthews and Nylander approach the game.
 
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It's very fair to put the caveat on Marner playing through an injury, that Dreger reported was a mild high ankle sprain* prior to the Boston series. I just wanted to note how Marner got injured, because I still laugh/cry about it.

* both Darrens/his agents are a bit stretchy with truths, eh?

Edit: The context was this was in the midst of that Auston Matthews goal chase; Simon Benoit got robbed of a highlight reel assist.
 
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I guess I just meant specifically when Ferris says "I don't think the organization did enough to protect Mitch Marner". I'm not sure that is exactly how Marner feels. Marner could have the feeling that "I just didn't feel safe in Toronto" and Ferris spun it to be "The organization didn't protect him".

I will never know exactly how Marner feels, as I will never talk to him in my life. However, I can see a scenario where Marner accepted that if he stayed in Toronto, if the Leafs didn't succeed in the playoffs, then he would be the one that received a lions share of the blame, no matter what he did. In the game of hockey, sometimes the result is out of the individual players hands. In this scenario, he decides, that's not the life he wants. He doesn't want to be the person who takes most of the blame if he's not the captain, and he's not going to be the highest paid player on the team, and he's not going to have certain assurances. That's a decision he gets to make. There is no fault there. He looked at his life and said "This isn't right for me". Then that hits the media cycle and now everything has to be someones fault. It's either the Leafs fault or Marner's fault because it should have just worked out somehow. Well it didn't. It was probably the same process for John Tavares. That one just happened to work out in the Leafs favour.

It's along the same lines as the narrative that because Nylander isn't going to ever win a Selke trophy he doesn't care about winning. I think Nylander does what he thinks is best in a game to give his team the best chance to win. Unfortunately, sometimes what Nylander thinks is best, is not actually what is best. But because Nylander is talented, and because he has won in the past, he shrugs off that criticism and just keeps on doing what he is doing because he thinks it's going to pan out some day. I'm interested to see what effect missing the playoffs last year will have on how Matthews and Nylander approach the game.
I have a hard time believing he isn't implicitly co-signing on anything Darren Ferris says or he wouldn't be his agent, and I think unless Mitch says something to clarify the statement then we're really only speculating.
 
I have a hard time believing he isn't implicitly co-signing on anything Darren Ferris says or he wouldn't be his agent, and I think unless Mitch says something to clarify the statement then we're really only speculating.
Fair, which kind of leads me back to the original point I made with Herman. If we are in speculation mode, then we have to be careful about our biases when we apply a filter to that speculation. We like the Leafs so we see them as good and we don't like Marner so we see him as bad, so now everything that we speculate on gets run through that filter.

I watched what the guys on overdrive have to say about the situation. They made some good points, and they are in the media, and probably have some more information than I have, but you can tell that their slant is pro Leafs, and anti Marner camp. I don't think it's a huge slant, as they tried to objectively lay out stuff, but it still is a slant. I think the point they made that I agree with though, is that really, this is all just sad.
 
Ferris is in a media interview. He's asked about a few of his clients or transactions. Marner was just one of them. Answering media questions about his clients/transactions is not trolling the Leafs fanbase. Some Leafs fans who swallowed bunches of the media spin on Marner might feel that way but Ferris presented some new facts that countered some of that media - like his ankle was fractured in the Boston series or there wasn't a trade figured out with Carolina. Ferris in the media probably helps him acquire more clients. I do not agree with everything he said but representing his client to the media and answering questions from the media is part of his job as is standing up for the player he represents. Taking the media's word for it: hook, line and sinker doesn't work for a lot of people. Just like I don't accept everything he says ...

Where is the mention of Marner's fractured ankle in this media hit piece?:
Lots of articles making excuses for Matthews injuries.
Ferris did his client a service by correcting that.

Berube also weighed in


Berube seems on the level there.

These testimonies reduce the media conjecture. I do not think that is a bad thing. Whether it is the media, Berube or Ferris or someone else, you have to weigh what they have to say. I don't think any of them are 100% lying. There are nuggets of facts and seemingly heartfelt opinion that move us closer to the truth we'll never completely know of what went on.

I didn't know Marner broke his ankle - and this was an issue with the Leafs org in general. They should be a little more forthcoming especially after the season about players playing through injuries. But if we're playing the hit piece game, I very clearly recall how pissed people were that Nylander sat out for "migraines." Where is Nylander's agent complaining about how badly he was treated by the supposedly monolithic Toronto media?

He was asked a question in a podcast, but he droned on for 7 minutes and just proved how petty and ridiculous the whole camp was because Auston was treated differently than Mitch after they were drafted. Bringing up the carjacking and somehow tying it to the Leafs and their fans? Presenting a case that only Mitch ever got scrutiny? Airing all the grievances and all the dirty laundry that has had the opposite effect and has got people talking again? If this is the kind of "protection" I was being offered in the offseason when things should be at their quietest I'd have fired Darren by now.

As an aside, Steve Dangle had a pod that he had overheard that teams want to get off the "Ferris Wheel". So much for getting new clients.
 
Fair, which kind of leads me back to the original point I made with Herman. If we are in speculation mode, then we have to be careful about our biases when we apply a filter to that speculation. We like the Leafs so we see them as good and we don't like Marner so we see him as bad, so now everything that we speculate on gets run through that filter.

I watched what the guys on overdrive have to say about the situation. They made some good points, and they are in the media, and probably have some more information than I have, but you can tell that their slant is pro Leafs, and anti Marner camp. I don't think it's a huge slant, as they tried to objectively lay out stuff, but it still is a slant. I think the point they made that I agree with though, is that really, this is all just sad.
The Leafs org has been ripped time and time again for their handling of the core 4 era though. My slant isn't on whoever is running the team, or the org in general. We care about the crest, not really the people running the team (unless they somehow deliver a Cup). How many of us wanted it to work here? How many of us got mad that Shanny kept putting his foot down on making meaningful changes to the core 4? Right now we're just discussing what Ferris said in the media, and of course there will be blowback when the complaint is Schedule B bonuses after all these years that they could never seem to move on from etc. etc.
 
Shoutout to Steve Keogh (recently departed PR director) in part 2

Edit: can a site admin let us know if you get a message from the players representative complaining that their guy is only being discussed as a Minor Ex-Leaf.
 
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I didn't know Marner broke his ankle - and this was an issue with the Leafs org in general. They should be a little more forthcoming especially after the season about players playing through injuries. But if we're playing the hit piece game, I very clearly recall how pissed people were that Nylander sat out for "migraines." Where is Nylander's agent complaining about how badly he was treated by the supposedly monolithic Toronto media?
In Nylander's case, the media and the public knew about the migraines.

In Marner's case, the media and the public didn't know he was playing with a fractured ankle.
Bobby Baun played a little over 3 periods on a fractured ankle and was immortalized with a series tying goal.
Unknown until yesterday, Marner apparently played a 7 game series on a fractured ankle and was ultimately blamed more than his share and run out of town.
The team was AWOL when the media went after him as being invisible so Ferris has more than a fair point. It is a team sport. It is his duty as Marner's agent to correct the record when asked about it by the media.
Since Marner's team didn't step up, I don't blame Ferris for calling it out. It did not reflect well on the culture between management and players and evidently contributed to costing management and coaches their jobs.

If you want to keep good things in this life, sometimes, you have to step up and take care of them.
Ferris could be the canary telling you the Leafs didn't do that.
It cost them last season and will probably cost them again this season because they are not a contender. According to oddsmakers and some pundits, they're maybe a playoff team if things go well for them ... with a few weeks before training camp ...
Can't help but wonder what Matthews thinks about how they treated his friend and setup man. That too is pertinent to today's team because Matthews has a BIG decision to make by next July if not sooner. A decision that will affect all Leafs fans.
Sure it would be great to stick our heads in the sand and pretend something else. Or to try to forget about it. But actions may have consequences that this team has yet to face.
I don't think suppressing the first amendment is going to solve it. Matthews will probably get the last word.

I also had no idea about Marner being the 'emotional centerpiece' that his coach laments was gone last year. Someone who helped the coach hold the players accountable. I knew Marner did a bunch of social stuff for the team - getting them together off the ice, etc. But was not aware of that. Where was that in the media crucifixion of him? His team said nothing. Sadly, it took his dismissed coach to enlighten us. That further underscores Ferris' point.

Now for those anxious to muzzle discussion, that is pertinent to today's team because the remaining Captains didn't fill that role - according to their coach - or he wouldn't have missed Marner holding players accountable and being the emotional centerpiece. Who did we get to do that since the captains were evidently derelict in that duty last season? Crickets? ...

Ok, back to stifling freedom of expression on a hockey forum ...
 
Shoutout to Steve Keogh (recently departed PR director) in part 2

Edit: can a site admin let us know if you get a message from the players representative complaining that their guy is only being discussed as a Minor Ex-Leaf.
Let me see if I have this right
Marner's agent goes on a 36 min hockey 'show' to answer questions about what he does, players transactions he was involved with, offer sheets, etc. That is part of doing his job.
Roughly 7 mins are answering questions this media person had about Marner. That too is part of him doing his job.

From that, Steve Dangle podcast spin off two videos totaling 50+ mins responding to the 7 min Q&A on Marner whining about people talking about Marner's departure from the Leafs in the media.

Did I spell this correctly: H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y ??
 
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