Islanders @ Leafs - Sept. 30th, 7:30pm - Prime

[cw]

Is it odd that no one really knows what's going on with Domi? What happened? Why hasn't he said anything?

He had a serious problem from back surgery. For a while, apparently, he could not walk.
My guess is they are waiting for a final medical conclusion - as to whether he has to miss the season or retire or whatever.
Once they know, they'll let us know once he's got past some of the emotions from bad news - if that is the result.
He can't play for medical reasons. At some point, they said he would let us know.

 

[cw]

He's slow and his line is getting caved. Father time catches up with everybody and I'd rather be proactive about that. I want the team to be as good as it can be and so at least experimenting with JT on the wing I think isn't a bad idea.

I'm not sure about that "He's slow"

Fairly recently, someone in the media got skating ice times from Leafs training camp. Happened at least twice in recent years
Tavares as I recall was in the upper half of the team in speed.
Last season, I looked at all the skating speeds of Leafs and Marlies on NHL Edge going back 3 years
Tavares was ~15th out of 38 in skating speed.
In preseason, I commented in the game day threads about a couple of good bursts of speed from Tavares - I'm sure I was not the only one who saw it. I felt reassured from what I watched that he wasn't a slug yet - I was looking for it.
This season, after 2 games, I looked at the Leafs on NHL Edge
Tavares is 12th out of 19 in skating speed. (They're mostly all slower than prior seasons - probably because of the small sample size. And it may have accuracy limits as Cowan was one of the slowest last season but the fastest so far this season)

Tavares with Marner was +28 but a minus with Nylander

There are two things Tavares does better than most if not all on this roster:
win faceoffs and park his butt in front of the net and produce in that area of the ice

Unlike his common linemate, he makes an intelligent determined effort defensively.
He's currently playing with one winger who is determined to provide most of his effort in his NHL career on just 100 feet of ice and a lightweight 18 year old who is confronting a significant challenge trying to play in the league. So yeah, "their line is getting caved" but I don't think it is all on Tavares. We've only played two games ...

I'm not saying there are no other line combinations that might be better.
I'd just be careful messing with what Tavares brings to every game.
If he is or was struggling, it was a short preseason. Give it a little time as we should for McKenna.

 

[dappleganger]

Can't be Raddysh, Matthews or Tavares (net front). It would have to be one of Marchenko or Nylander
OR
Get one of those two to put more emphasis on playing the puck distributor role. I don't know Marchenko's skill set as well to know if he could do that effectively. Nylander seems capable.

I'd been wondering about McKenna on L1 with Matthews & Marchenko
Then screwing up L3 with
Cowan Tavares Nylander (bet that line would be fixed ...)
resulting in L3
Paul Sissons Roslovic
... (kicking tires only .. I'm not sure about that)

Maybe remove Tavares and Marchenko could play net front? He's big enough and has good hands.

I agree with you on the lines, I think that's what they should be. is McKenna struggling? Who cares! He's playing with Marchenko and Matthews, they will be able to do everything that needs done.

 

[cw]

Maybe remove Tavares and Marchenko could play net front? He's big enough and has good hands.

I agree with you on the lines, I think that's what they should be. is McKenna struggling? Who cares! He's playing with Marchenko and Matthews, they will be able to do everything that needs done.

I'm not committed to those lines. It is so early. They had not had a single practice with Marchenko

Tavares led preseason scoring 1G 3A, 2 PP pts +1.
He's 0G 1A -1 in 2 regular season games

Tavares is -1, Nylander is -2 and McKenna is -3 .... but that's all Tavares' fault? How does that math work?

His coach doesn't feel that way. He benched Nylander for the last five minutes of the game after the shorthanded goal that handed Tavares a -1

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Heineman earns a SHG | NHL.com

Emil Heineman finishes the feed from Bo Horvat for a short-handed goal that trims the lead to 2-1 in the 3rd period

nhl.com

Note Nylander casually skating back .... its outside of his 100 foot effort zone ...
Can't fault the coach for that.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not committed to those lines. It is so early. They had not had a single practice with Marchenko

Tavares led preseason scoring 1G 3A, 2 PP pts +1.
He's 0G 1A -1 in 2 regular season games

Tavares is -1, Nylander is -2 and McKenna is -3 .... but that's all Tavares' fault? How does that math work?

His coach doesn't feel that way. He benched Nylander for the last five minutes of the game after the shorthanded goal that handed Tavares a -1

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Heineman earns a SHG | NHL.com

Emil Heineman finishes the feed from Bo Horvat for a short-handed goal that trims the lead to 2-1 in the 3rd period

nhl.com

Note Nylander casually skating back .... its outside of his 100 foot effort zone ...
Can't fault the coach for that.

88 has to stop that kind of effort in his game. Zero excuse for him on that goal. It also sends a terrible message to the kids and vets too. I would have benched him and anyone else that does the same. We all have seen him play solid D when he wants. Let's hope it was just a brain fart.

 

[cabber24]

88 has to stop that kind of effort in his game. Zero excuse for him on that goal. It also sends a terrible message to the kids and vets too. I would have benched him and anyone else that does the same. We all have seen him play solid D when he wants. Let's hope it was just a brain fart.

He's absolutely aware of how bad a play that was. You could see it on his face on the bench. It's a 2-0 game; there's zero reason to cheat like that.

 

[cw]

88 has to stop that kind of effort in his game. Zero excuse for him on that goal. It also sends a terrible message to the kids and vets too. I would have benched him and anyone else that does the same. We all have seen him play solid D when he wants. Let's hope it was just a brain fart.

I've been hoping he'd stop that crap since he showed up. It is not going to happen.
It boggles because when I have asked myself "who is the most skilled hockey player you ever saw wearing a Leafs jersey?", he is immediately in that conversation with Mogilny, Leetch, etc. He is extraordinarily gifted. He was 94th percentile in NHL Edge skating speed last year but I can't help but wonder if ever he did that going full out. Game has changed I think. Years ago, no hitting, no blocking shots, etc - it wouldn't be tolerated by his mates.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I've been hoping he'd stop that crap since he showed up. It is not going to happen.
It boggles because when I have asked myself "who is the most skilled hockey player you ever saw wearing a Leafs jersey?", he is immediately in that conversation with Mogilny, Leetch, etc. He is extraordinarily gifted. He was 94th percentile in NHL Edge skating speed last year but I can't help but wonder if ever he did that going full out. Game has changed I think. Years ago, no hitting, no blocking shots, etc - it wouldn't be tolerated by his mates.

Thing is and Herman will def verify, there was a stretch last season when he played a 200foot game and he did it very well. We know pretty much every player can do it if they want. He needs to tho because it will take pressure off a guy like McKenna, JT and whoever else is on that line.
And totally agree. One of the most talented guys in the league. Skill is off the charts.

 

[cw]

Thing is and Herman will def verify, there was a stretch last season when he played a 200foot game and he did it very well. We know pretty much every player can do it if they want. He needs to tho because it will take pressure off a guy like McKenna, JT and whoever else is on that line.
And totally agree. One of the most talented guys in the league. Skill is off the charts.

If he would have committed to two way hockey, he would have been a perennial Hart candidate.
Must drive the fringe guys crazy. They're doing everything they can, hitting, blocking shots, etc to avoid the waiver wire. Nylander lilly dips along without consequence.

 

[Bender]

I'm not committed to those lines. It is so early. They had not had a single practice with Marchenko

Tavares led preseason scoring 1G 3A, 2 PP pts +1.
He's 0G 1A -1 in 2 regular season games

Tavares is -1, Nylander is -2 and McKenna is -3 .... but that's all Tavares' fault? How does that math work?

His coach doesn't feel that way. He benched Nylander for the last five minutes of the game after the shorthanded goal that handed Tavares a -1

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Heineman earns a SHG | NHL.com

Emil Heineman finishes the feed from Bo Horvat for a short-handed goal that trims the lead to 2-1 in the 3rd period

nhl.com

Note Nylander casually skating back .... its outside of his 100 foot effort zone ...
Can't fault the coach for that.

We aren't ascribing "fault" we are just trying to build a lineup that can get the best outcomes, and I don't think adjusting your lineup should be viewed in the lens of "we are punishing player x." How do we build the best lineup is the only question that matters and trying different line combos shouldn't be sacrosanct.

 

[cw]

We aren't ascribing "fault" we are just trying to build a lineup that can get the best outcomes, and I don't think adjusting your lineup should be viewed in the lens of "we are punishing player x." How do we build the best lineup is the only question that matters and trying different line combos shouldn't be sacrosanct.

Some fault seemed ascribed to Tavares as a motivator for changing the lines.
For example, you said "He's slow" (which the skating stats and some observations seem to defy) and Herman said "3/4 pp puck touches by Tavares is a turnover" (but he has two PP assists in the 4 games he's played and another two assists)

Some of these ideas for lines involving Tavares - that discuss building the best lineup - may well transpire at some point.
However, Tavares is on a PP with a member of that PP that had never had a single practice with them and with a different dman with a big right point shot (vs what Rielly/OEL used to provide from the left side).
It would be nice if these guys could get a little practice together before tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

And Tavares is on a line with a defensively flimsy right winger and an 18 year old kid who acknowledges he's struggling. I don't get the panic of why we have to knee jerk lines changes when they have had so little time together with so many changes going on and they're breaking in a rookie.

Isn't a little patience in order?

I would guess that part of the motivation for keeping McCabe-Tanev & Tavares- Nylander (and previously Matthews-Knies) together was to provide some continuity to try to help them through all the personnel and coaching changes. I guess that rather than having a defensive dman with Raddysh, they're trying Rielly's wheels to help skate the puck out. There's a lot going on with little practice to date. You have to give people a chance to adjust and do their jobs. It is going to take 10-20 games to shake this all out.

 

[Bender]

Some fault seemed ascribed to Tavares as a motivator for changing the lines.
For example, you said "He's slow" (which the skating stats and some observations seem to defy) and Herman said "3/4 pp puck touches by Tavares is a turnover" (but he has two PP assists in the 4 games he's played and another two assists)

Some of these ideas for lines involving Tavares - that discuss building the best lineup - may well transpire at some point.
However, Tavares is on a PP with a member of that PP that had never had a single practice with them and with a different dman with a big right point shot (vs what Rielly/OEL used to provide from the left side).
It would be nice if these guys could get a little practice together before tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

And Tavares is on a line with a defensively flimsy right winger and an 18 year old kid who acknowledges he's struggling. I don't get the panic of why we have to knee jerk lines changes when they have had so little time together with so many changes going on and they're breaking in a rookie.

Isn't a little patience in order?

I would guess that part of the motivation for keeping McCabe-Tanev & Tavares- Nylander (and previously Matthews-Knies) together was to provide some continuity to try to help them through all the personnel and coaching changes. I'm guess that rather than having a defensive dman with Raddysh, they're trying Rielly's wheels to help skate the puck out. There's a lot going on with little practice to date. You have to give people a chance to adjust and do their jobs. It is going to take 10-20 games to shake this all out.

Ultimately this isn't your or I's decision so the point is mostly moot, but... Give them some time, sure, but I haven't liked JT and Willy in quite a while, regardless of who is on the left, which is what is mostly informing my thinking. The line may need breathing room, but they also need to work it out. I just think they've been together so long that if they haven't worked it out by now some other combinations are at least worth trying.

 

[cw]

Ultimately this isn't your or I's decision so the point is mostly moot, but... Give them some time, sure, but I haven't liked JT and Willy in quite a while, regardless of who is on the left, which is what is mostly informing my thinking. The line may need breathing room, but they also need to work it out. I just think they've been together so long that if they haven't worked it out by now some other combinations are at least worth trying.

There is something we agree on because I'm not crazy about the two of them together either. John was fine with Mitch Marner. The Tavares-Nylander pairing has not been good defensively. That isn't because Tavares isn't trying defensively. And it is not all because Nylander has little interest in executing defensive hockey - some of it is on Tavares. I'm not blind to that. It would be wonderful if he could skate as fast as Nylander but like 93% of the league, he can't - so there is that too. And then to add breaking in McKenna ...

It may be the 3rd line has to carry them for a while as it is the only one that seems to be working pretty well.

I think the practices should help them considerably in the short term.

A problem I am having is there has been so much change, I do not know all the players or the coaches as well as I'm used to. I'm still learning about them. Then we trade three of them and get three others. The coaches have my sympathies. Some of it is also due to the shortened preseason. Traditionally, coaches would break it down into roughly 5 games blocks. Then reassess and adjust. Leafs cannot afford to get into a deep hole in the standings so that cycle of games before adjustment is likely to be shorter if there is any sign of a struggle.