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Grimson: "The game has passed by" Cherry

Bob Kane, creator of Batman, dies at 83

Or is this not where we post news from 1998?

Seriously though, good article.
 
This quote was most telling of them all in this article for me:

'Also directing his ire toward Cherry, Thomson, who had 116 fights in his junior and professional career, said: ?I want fighting out and I want the violence out. I?m looking for him to apologize to all the people out there suffering from mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, which I suffered from, all three.?'

 
Saint Nik said:
Bob Kane, creator of Batman, dies at 83

Or is this not where we post news from 1998?

Seriously though, good article.

Very good.  But hey, the truth always bears repeating, especially when it unhorses a blowbag like Cherry.
 
So, chicken or the egg? 

Do people who fight in the NHL end up with mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse because of fighting? Or do people who are 'predisposed' to this sort of thing end up fighters in the NHL?

I would have to say that in society there are many people who battle mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse who have never had a fist fight or concussion in their lives.
 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
So, chicken or the egg? 

Do people who fight in the NHL end up with mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse because of fighting? Or do people who are 'predisposed' to this sort of thing end up fighters in the NHL?

I would have to say that in society there are many people who battle mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse who have never had a fist fight or concussion in their lives.

It's not a big mystery. There are quite a few studies out there on the link between depression and concussions.
 
Saint Nik said:
It's not a big mystery. There are quite a few studies out there on the link between depression and concussions.

Yeah, and, really, it's hardly a shocking link either. I mean, a concussion a form of brain damage that can throw off the chemical balance, which often leads to things like depression. Depression, meanwhile, often leads to things like alcohol and drug addiction, and, voila. Pretty simple, really. Yes, some of these guys may be pre-disposed to addiction, but, the brain damage they've suffered from fighting almost certainly gave them that extra little nudge in that direction.
 
I thought this as an astute comparison by Thomson, who is in favour of eliminating fighting from hockey:

Thomson likened Cherry?s attitude on fighting to another vice.

?We?re finding out about brain damage, so we don?t need bare knuckles going against skulls,? Thomson said. ?Years ago, we smoked on planes, we smoked anywhere, and we found that it was killing us. Times change, and Don Cherry needs to change with the times.?
 
I think my opinion on fighting in hockey more closely resembles Grimson's (as I understand it.)

I don't believe fighting should be banned from hockey. However, I think the role of the enforcer needs to go. Players need to be talented hockey players first, fighters last. This way the quality of the hockey goes up, and more importantly in terms of player safety, it's not the same player who gets their head used as a punching bag every other game. Fighting, while still a major penalty, can be used to police the game as it once was.

I'm against pointless fighting, head shots, and reckless hits and stick work. And while I've been accused in the past of being a softy and enjoying "european-style" hockey, it's not entirely true. I thought Phaneuf's hit on DaCosta was the most enjoyable part of the game. I love hard-nosed, physical hockey. But I deplore useless violence and intent to injure.

Hockey should be a physical sport, not a violent one.

To me, Stevens' hit on Lindros was one of the more shameful acts in hockey's somewhat recent past.

Staged fighting also needs to go, as I suspect it will as the role of the enforcer fades away.
 
Bullfrog said:
I think my opinion on fighting in hockey more closely resembles Grimson's (as I understand it.)

I don't believe fighting should be banned from hockey
. However, I think the role of the enforcer needs to go.
Players need to be talented hockey players first, fighters
last. This way the quality of the hockey goes up, and
more importantly in terms of player safety, it's not the
same player who gets their head used as a punching bag
every other game. Fighting, while still a major penalty,
can be used to police the game as it once was.

I'm against pointless fighting, head shots, and reckless
hits and stick work. And while I've been accused in the
past of being a softy and enjoying "european-style"
hockey, it's not entirely true. I thought Phaneuf's hit on
DaCosta was the most enjoyable part of the game. I
love hard-nosed, physical hockey. But I deplore useless
violence and intent to injure.

Hockey should be a physical sport, not a violent one.

To me, Stevens' hit on Lindros was one of the more
shameful acts in hockey's somewhat recent past.

Staged fighting also needs to go, as I suspect it will as the role of the enforcer fades away.

I agree on all of your points.  I, too, thought that Stevens hit on Lindros was "shameful".  If Stevens were playing today, I'm certain at some point or other, he would have been given a suspension, as eventually, one of his so-called hits would have been deemed a "head shot".

Also, as I have been repeating occasionally in some other of my postings on the subject of hockey hits, the 'art' of bodychecking -- good, clean, hard-hitting (if you will) jolts -- is where it needs to be at.  (The Phaneuf hit on Da Costa is a recent  prime example). Until players re-learn the proper aspects of physicality in the game, only then will the game itself be elevated to new heights, so to speak, minus the non-sensical violence.
 
Bullfrog said:
I thought this as an astute comparison by Thomson, who is in favour of eliminating fighting from hockey:

Thomson likened Cherry?s attitude on fighting to
another vice.

?We?re finding out about brain damage, so we don?t
need bare knuckles going against skulls,? Thomson said.
?Years ago, we smoked on planes, we smoked
anywhere, and we found that it was killing us. Times
change, and Don Cherry needs to change with the
times.?

If Don Cherry had had an "astute" attitude, he would
never have uttered such erroneous, inept commentary. 
Unfortunately, as we all know only too well, Cherry is an
entertainer at best, opininiated at worst, and a
commentator in the art of mediocrity. 
 
I'm not sure if the intent of this thread was to discuss Cherry's obsolescence or hockey fighting, but I'll stick with the fighting angle.

What are your thoughts about making removing gloves before a fight a game misconduct? Meaning, you can fight and receive a major penalty, but stay in the game if you keep your gloves on, but, if the gloves come off, you're gone for the game.
 
Peter D. said:
This quote was most telling of them all in this article for me:

'Also directing his ire toward Cherry, Thomson, who had 116 fights in his junior and professional career, said: ?I want fighting out and I want the violence out. I?m looking for him to apologize to all the people out there suffering from mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, which I suffered from, all three.?'

Why should Cherry apologize to everyone suffering from those 3 things? Thomson has drastically changed his pov and has a legit issue with Don directly, stick with that.
 
I have suggested this before and still believe it would be a solution to the "goon" issue, all players must play a minimum amount of time in the game.  Say you atrt with 10 minutes and adjust as needed.  Teams could not afford to have a player who can't "play".  There would obviously have to be allowances for things such as injury, benching and such while would be minitored for legitimacy by league.  This would be a work in progress rule that can be tweaked.
 
Potvin29 said:
I don't have a problem with consenting adults fighting.

I don't either. Maybe that is why I love watching MMA so much. But in MMA you have weight classes, you have rules to protect fighters, and you have a ref that will stop a fight when it is called for.

Hockey is quite different.

There is this whole weird "Honour system" perpetuated by monkeys like Don Cherry whereby a guy who is not a fighter or not in the same weight class as another guy has to participate or he will look like a gutless puke (Cherry words). You also have guys like Luke Schenn who can fight if/when he knows its time for a fight that get ko'd by a guy like Neil before he even knows what is going on.

I like fighting too. And when too guys of similar size and strength want to square off and they bot know from the start what is at stake then I am okay with that. Unfortunately hockey has too many examples where it is not like that and I freaking hate it. I hated seeing Schenn get beat up before he knew what he was into, I hated in the pre-season when Sestito beat up on Lupul even after he was down and beaten and he is clearly much bigger than Lupul.

I am glad that there is this kind of talk and that a day might come when most of it is gone.
 
hockeyfan1 said:
Bullfrog said:
I think my opinion on fighting in hockey more closely resembles Grimson's (as I understand it.)

I don't believe fighting should be banned from hockey
. However, I think the role of the enforcer needs to go.
Players need to be talented hockey players first, fighters
last. This way the quality of the hockey goes up, and
more importantly in terms of player safety, it's not the
same player who gets their head used as a punching bag
every other game. Fighting, while still a major penalty,
can be used to police the game as it once was.

I'm against pointless fighting, head shots, and reckless
hits and stick work. And while I've been accused in the
past of being a softy and enjoying "european-style"
hockey, it's not entirely true. I thought Phaneuf's hit on
DaCosta was the most enjoyable part of the game. I
love hard-nosed, physical hockey. But I deplore useless
violence and intent to injure.

Hockey should be a physical sport, not a violent one.

To me, Stevens' hit on Lindros was one of the more
shameful acts in hockey's somewhat recent past.

Staged fighting also needs to go, as I suspect it will as the role of the enforcer fades away.

I agree on all of your points.  I, too, thought that Stevens hit on Lindros was "shameful".  If Stevens were playing today, I'm certain at some point or other, he would have been given a suspension, as eventually, one of his so-called hits would have been deemed a "head shot".

Also, as I have been repeating occasionally in some other of my postings on the subject of hockey hits, the 'art' of bodychecking -- good, clean, hard-hitting (if you will) jolts -- is where it needs to be at.  (The Phaneuf hit on Da Costa is a recent  prime example). Until players re-learn the proper aspects of physicality in the game, only then will the game itself be elevated to new heights, so to speak, minus the non-sensical violence.

Very well said, both.  I think this what the game is going toward, and not a moment too soon.  Staged fighting can be the first to go.
 
Optimus Reim said:
There is this whole weird "Honour system" perpetuated by monkeys like Don Cherry whereby a guy who is not a fighter or not in the same weight class as another guy has to participate or he will look like a gutless puke (Cherry words). 

Isn't it the other way around, fighters aren't supposed to fight non fighters generally?
 
I'm not sure if I see much of a difference between the Phaneuf hit on Da Costa - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdDZunmjZ8, and the Stevens hit on Lindros - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVeqzYgTELk
I still don't have a problem with the Stevens hit. IMO both are clean open ice hits.
 
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