Game of Thrones (S7)

[Nik]

I think I'm sort of coming around to #TeamEuron.

Also, the show is sort of facing a charisma problem. Some actors are a lot, shall we say, stronger than others and some of the weaker ones seem to be getting an inordinate amount of face time right now.

 

[herman]

One of the arguments I heard for the teleportation and timeslipping issues (that I just have to ignore now, after 5 seasons of slogging through the Kingsroad, or across the Reach, or through the Kingswood, or wandering the Free Cities) was that Weiss and Benioff delayed overtaking Martin's books as long as possible, at the expense of expediting or giving more time to certain storylines, and now we have this glut of plot threads that need to end, physics and logistics be damned.

Everything this season is a callback, because look how clever we were laying the threads of the ending at the very beginning.

 

[herman]

Also: impressive acting by Indira Varma (and suuuppper impressive core tone), even though her character is written as garbage.

 

[Nik]

Everything this season is a callback, because look how clever we were laying the threads of the ending at the very beginning.

I think some viewers/critics/people are reading way too much significance into "callbacks" or even the idea of them as being a dramatically interesting device. Referencing something that happened earlier in the show, in some cases overtly, isn't necessarily a sign of clever foreshadowing. It's just acknowledging that they've created a universe they can reference.

Tyrion including a line from his season 1 conversation with Jon Snow in his message to him, for instance, probably isn't a sign that they had specific ideas for it that early on but rather a case of the writers realizing they had to figure out a way for Jon to know the letter was authentic and they had that to work with.

There's an old episode of the Andy Greenwald podcast with Benioff and Weiss where they seem pretty uninterested in the idea of larger thematic concepts beyond what's going on. "Themes are for book reports" I think was the line they used.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think some viewers/critics/people are reading way too much significance into "callbacks" or even the idea of them as being a dramatically interesting device. Referencing something that happened earlier in the show, in some cases overtly, isn't necessarily a sign of clever foreshadowing. It's just acknowledging that they've created a universe they can reference.

In the viewers category, I watch with five friends. A few of them are the type that are just WAY too into the show. They try to find every little easter egg, reference, tie-in, allusion, etc. Some of the little things that I miss are neat and, admittedly, are there for the hardcore fans. But lots of it, I find, is the viewer trying very hard to "find" these tie-ins and evidence of foreshadowing. "See, I knew it! Tyrion turned to his left, therefore proving my earlier theory that Jon is actually Dany's twin!"

 

[Bender]

I think I'm sort of coming around to #TeamEuron.

Also, the show is sort of facing a charisma problem. Some actors are a lot, shall we say, stronger than others and some of the weaker ones seem to be getting an inordinate amount of face time right now.

Who are you referring to specifically?

I honestly thought they were really lazy with Euron. Euron comes back and is somehow crowned King of Iron Islands. Yara and Theon take all the best ships and yet somehow they create the best fleet in a year or two? He steamrolls Yara and Theon and is just boisterous and crazy. Meh, that's pretty boring to me.

 

[Bender]

I also just thought that episode was somewhat lazy overall as well. Two battles occurred in literally two seconds. John is at Dragonstone in a minute. Some good bits with John and Dany but that's about it and Queen of Thorns is done in an instant. I mean it just seemed rushed and flat to me.

I dunno, I was pretty underwhelmed for whatever reason.

 

[Nik]

Who are you referring to specifically?

Kit Harrington, Sophie Turner and Emilia Clarke. They're doing their best and they're not bad or anything but any time we spend with Varys or Davos or Tyrion or Cersei or Littlefinger is a reminder that there are actors who are more interesting even if they're less important to the plot.

I honestly thought they were really lazy with Euron. Euron comes back and is somehow crowned King of Iron Islands. Yara and Theon take all the best ships and yet somehow they create the best fleet in a year or two? He steamrolls Yara and Theon and is just boisterous and crazy. Meh, that's pretty boring to me.

I've long since given up on the idea that in watching this show I'm supposed to have any idea about where people are or how long it should take to do something or go somewhere. Sam cured an incurable disease by....cutting it off. Euron somehow snuck up silently on his niece's flagship(typically, a flagship would be in the middle of a fleet and impossible to hit first).

So I'm not bothered with problems with consistency or internal logic. It's just a magical fooferah with a fun plot and good performances. And Euron, or at least the actor playing him, is at least having a good time with it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I honestly thought they were really lazy with Euron. Euron comes back and is somehow crowned King of Iron Islands. Yara and Theon take all the best ships and yet somehow they create the best fleet in a year or two? He steamrolls Yara and Theon and is just boisterous and crazy. Meh, that's pretty boring to me.

I haven't been able to take Euron's re-booted character seriously for a second. I think I get his purpose: the show will need him to do Cersei's dirty work instead of Jamie so the viewers remain sympathetic to him, I just don't get why they needed to change him into some sexy, psychotic pirate.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I also just thought that episode was somewhat lazy overall as well. Two battles occurred in literally two seconds. John is at Dragonstone in a minute. Some good bits with John and Dany but that's about it and Queen of Thorns is done in an instant. I mean it just seemed rushed and flat to me.

I dunno, I was pretty underwhelmed for whatever reason.

Those battles reminded me of season two of Rome, how they found out they were being cancelled like mid way through and then just breezed through 3 seasons worth of story.

Things are going to have to more much, much quicker given how few episodes are left. I don't mind them rushing through those types of minor battles. I don't need 10 minutes of Greyworm taking a castle against a bunch of unknown soldiers or Jamie doing the same somewhere else. I actually really liked how they handled those moments.

 

[herman]

My favourite part was Davos being forced to brusquely introduce Jon Snow after Missandei rattles off Daenerys' titles.

edit: I've been spelling Daenerys' name wrong all day.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My favourite part was Davos being forced to brusquely introduce Jon Snow after Missandei rattles off Daenarys' titles.

Davos is great. Somewhat to Nik's point, him and Tyrion really should be doing all the talking for their respective king/queen.

 

[herman]

There's an old episode of the Andy Greenwald podcast with Benioff and Weiss where they seem pretty uninterested in the idea of larger thematic concepts beyond what's going on. "Themes are for book reports" I think was the line they used.

Haha, that's a funny line, that sadly demonstrates much of this show's flaws once you pare away Martin's dialogue. Strip away the book bits, and what we're left with is sexposition and poop/pus to food cuts. They do a lot of visual callbacks too (motifs), especially when tying Daenerys' journey to Jon's, and Cersei's descent into Aerysness.

That being said, it is near-impossible to do television at this scale with that level of opulence in character development with a finite budget (literally the reason Martin wrote this saga was to make an impossible show for television to handle), and I think this show does an admirable job of investing where it matters (dragons, costume, set pieces, meme-able moments). The show's strengths are in the audio-visual experience (the music!).

 

[herman]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/31/hbo-hacked-game-of-thrones/

Russia Essos?

This season's plot was already online for a good stretch last year, but obviously there was healthy/angry Internet skepticism about it. Until it started coming true.

Pardon the colloquialism, but Episode 4 is going to be LIT.

 

[Bender]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/31/hbo-hacked-game-of-thrones/

Russia Essos?

This season's plot was already online for a good stretch last year, but obviously there was healthy/angry Internet skepticism about it. Until it started coming true.

Pardon the colloquialism, but Episode 4 is going to be LIT.

Woke af fam

 

[Bender]

(literally the reason Martin wrote this saga was to make an impossible show for television to handle)

Really? Is there some sort of irony that it did become a TV show? And that a lot of the plots he concocted he eventually remarked of that he threw too many plates in the air and had to continue spinning?

I think he needs an editor to be quite honest with you.

 

[Zee]

(literally the reason Martin wrote this saga was to make an impossible show for television to handle)

Really? Is there some sort of irony that it did become a TV show? And that a lot of the plots he concocted he eventually remarked of that he threw too many plates in the air and had to continue spinning?

I think he needs an editor to be quite honest with you.

He needs to stop watching NFL football and going to conferences the entire year as opposed to procrastinating and writing his novels.  Dance with Dragons came out in 2011, it's been 6 damn years and he hasn't been able to finish Winds of Winter.  I mean I'm as guilty as the next guy of putting things off from time to time, but c'mon Martin.

The sad thing is, the first book came out in 1996, he then managed to release 2 more books in 4 years, and then suddenly couldn't write quickly anymore.  Funny enough, those first 3 books are the best in the series, and the quickest to come out.  Now I know he claims he was thinking about Ice & Fire series for 20 years before ever writing that first novel, so the fact he put out 3 books in 4 years shouldn't be indicative of how quickly he writes, but to me it shows if he's committed to something, and has an idea of where a story should go, he can produce results fairly quickly.  He's become such a pain the ass to listen to with his blog updates and constant excuses of a slow writing process that I'm about ready to give up on him.  He's more likely to die before finishing off the last 2 books any time soon.

 

[Arn]

Sometimes it's difficult to suspend your disbelief when most of the episode is filmed somewhere you spent the previous day walking around when having a day out in the sunshine  ;D

 

[Bender]

Sometimes it's difficult to suspend your disbelief when most of the episode is filmed somewhere you spent the previous day walking around when having a day out in the sunshine  ;D

Ihatechu!  8)

 

[herman]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-easter-eggs-callbacks-season-7-episode-3-queens-justice-bronn-targaryen-ned-stark

Callbacks are so much easier to recall with GIFs.