Significantly Insignificant said:
https://twitter.com/ian_mendes/status/1177002652451921920
Auston Matthews
- Thread starter disco
- Start date
https://twitter.com/ian_mendes/status/1177002652451921920
herman said:
Does intent matter though? Maybe it was brought up in the police interview and I missed it, but was Matthews picking on a particular security guard because she was a woman, in other words, he targeted her? Or was he picking on a security guard because he thought it would be funny to mess with a security guard, and that security guard also happened to be a woman? Does that even matter? I'm sort of torn on it, because I feel like if the intention was to just to mess around with a security guard in general, that changes the narrative around it.
herman
Well-known member
Significantly Insignificant said:
A) That shouldn't matter; harassment is harassment. Messing with someone who is trying to do their job is stupid and silly. Being so privileged and entitled that you have no empathy is problematic.
B) There has been mention on Twitter that it was not surprising that the guard accosted was a woman; yeah it's hearsay but this person has had interaction with Matthews previously and knows others who are in his orbit.
The team spent a lot of cap space on getting team dads into the lineup. I kind of think there was a reason for that.
herman
Well-known member
Just to follow up on my earlier posts today, I'm not looking to castigate Matthews or to tarnish his reputation (further) with punitive measures.
What I do want is for the Leafs to leverage the discourse and their substantial influence to help their players, their fans, and their haters be better. The court of law will handle it's side of things, and all this attention and Matthews (and his dad apparently) hopefully take in the lesson with humility and grow from the experience. How Matthews handles this going forward is going to be dissected like a Nylander giveaway.
What I do want is for the Leafs to leverage the discourse and their substantial influence to help their players, their fans, and their haters be better. The court of law will handle it's side of things, and all this attention and Matthews (and his dad apparently) hopefully take in the lesson with humility and grow from the experience. How Matthews handles this going forward is going to be dissected like a Nylander giveaway.
herman said:
I totally agree with the entitled thing, but that seems like something that can be explained as young and stupid. It could be something similar to stealing a mascot from another school, where it falls more in line with the joke explanation. It's a bad joke, and it's stupid. It's not exactly that, but it's closer. However if it's targeting a woman specifically, that becomes predatory, which is where the toxic masculinity comes in to play and the tone is more serious.
Take the Patrick Kane incident with the cab driver where Kane assaults the cab driver. On it's face it's a horrible incident. Does the incident become even worse if the cab driver is a woman?
herman said:
See and this is the problem I have when the other teammates come out an back him, or Babcock asking him if he is okay. Matthews isn't a victim here.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
You should support teammates, friends and family. Last I heard Matthews hasn't been found guilty yet. Let's see how this plays out before trying to figure out what he was thinking and why he did what he allegedly did.
L K
Well-known member
herman said:
I don't think we really should be taking twitter accusations as much to be honest. It's really not a great step off the victim blaming you were rightfully calling out earlier.
At the end of the day the crime is just as bad if he does it to a guy or a girl. A security guard or a random stranger. I am seeing a lot of driven narrative discussion focusing on the fact that she is a woman.
hockeyfan1
New member
Mendes and Arthur weigh in...
[tweet]1176844487785615360[/tweet]
[tweet]1176844487785615360[/tweet]
Zee
Well-known member
Significantly Insignificant said:
Yeah Matthews isn't a victim here but his coach and teammates can still "support" him in going forward and righting the wrong. You give advice, you help, it's what friends and family do. What should Babcock have done instead, punch him in the face?
CatScratchFever
New member
Zee said:
"Teachable moment" for Matthews, and the potential to push that message out much like Morgan Reilly did last year around the supposed gay slur. This is why not telling the team may be MLSE's biggest concern, not the "boys will be boys" hijinks. It prevented them from getting out in front of it. They were blindsided. Not a good look.
Also, in what immature, sadistic brain is scaring the crap out of someone a joke? As a kid, there was another kid who thought it was funny to hold my head under water until I totally panicked. Yeah, hilarious.
So Auston, grow up, man up, and when you have, maybe you can be captain one day. In the meanwhile, MLSE should give the C to Tavares and quit fooling around. He's got the maturity, the experience, the heart, the humility, the skill and he's a hometown boy to boot.
Accountability. That's how you teach it, and show it.
I listened to the entire police interview with the woman. Although I still think we need to give Matthews a chance to respond in the normal course of this process, my perspective has changed a fair bit:
1. My opinion about the woman has shifted a bit since I can now hear her in her own words and gain a lot more of the subtleties of what was going on. It appears that what really riled her up was the fact that Auston's dad said it did not happen. It seems that she is motivated much more by someone calling her a liar than anything else.
2. Auston's parents knew. Not only did a sober Auston not come clean with the Leafs, but his parents did not advise him to come clean. Telling the Leafs the next morning could very likely have resulted in this all going away without a charge. We will never know. But regardless, drunken immaturity is one thing. The cold light of day immaturity is another.
1. My opinion about the woman has shifted a bit since I can now hear her in her own words and gain a lot more of the subtleties of what was going on. It appears that what really riled her up was the fact that Auston's dad said it did not happen. It seems that she is motivated much more by someone calling her a liar than anything else.
2. Auston's parents knew. Not only did a sober Auston not come clean with the Leafs, but his parents did not advise him to come clean. Telling the Leafs the next morning could very likely have resulted in this all going away without a charge. We will never know. But regardless, drunken immaturity is one thing. The cold light of day immaturity is another.
Zee said:
I guess I would have preferred a harder stance or a tough love approach. Something along the lines of "I walked up to him and asked him what were you thinking?". Something that indicated that his teammates and his coach were going to try and turn this in to a teachable moment. You know something from Reilly to the effect of "I don't have all the information but I'm going to talk to Auston and figure out what went down, and we'll correct things and go from there." Saying you are going to support him makes it sound like if Auston goes to fight this, or claim he is in the right, that his teammates have his back. I didn't really find Auston's apology all that compelling so I am not sure he feels he did anything wrong.
I like the Dubas comment about having an honest conversation, but that could just be spin.
BrownRolo
New member
I found this from the Athletic article to be particular damning
Dozithee also said that a member of the condo board approached her after the incident and told her that if she decided to press charges, the board would support her, because ?the resident has been an issue for us anyways.?
It's not a one time thing. They guy has been acting like an entitled rich kid by the sounds of it.
Give Tavares the C.
Dozithee also said that a member of the condo board approached her after the incident and told her that if she decided to press charges, the board would support her, because ?the resident has been an issue for us anyways.?
It's not a one time thing. They guy has been acting like an entitled rich kid by the sounds of it.
Give Tavares the C.
Bullfrog
Well-known member
I agree that what he did was wrong, assuming it happened as alleged (for the record: I believe the victim.) I do not believe the Maple Leafs need to provide any discipline action at all. This is not the team's role. I do believe that Matthews and TMLs do need to take this seriously and step up by denouncing the actions and having a conversation about the harm it caused the victim and the importance of treating people right, but teams need to be careful about disciplining players for personal actions.
While the woman seems to be angered by the actions of Matthews' parents, this is ultimately inconsequential to the proceedings; though the conduct of the parties is considered in judgments. I find it somewhat strange that she called the parents of a 22-year-old man.
While the woman seems to be angered by the actions of Matthews' parents, this is ultimately inconsequential to the proceedings; though the conduct of the parties is considered in judgments. I find it somewhat strange that she called the parents of a 22-year-old man.
Kin
Active member
Significantly Insignificant said:
I think there's a pretty fair limit to expect of that sort of thing. Rielly and Babcock are Matthews' colleague and immediate supervisor respectively(and with coach-star player it's an unorthodox supervisory relationship). They're not his counsellors or uncles. I think it's nice to imagine some sort of mentorship going on but I don't think it's realistic to expect it. Ultimately any personal growth or maturity is going to have to come Matthews and realistically, it's not going to be forced if that sort of relationship doesn't already exist.