2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[rdowdall]

I'm not sure why anyone would watch a league that they feel is working to make sure their team loses. Or in the least, working to make sure that their players get suspended for longer or are given more penalties.

When I watch the Leafs in this era, I see a team that rarely gets dirty. They don't go to places that draw penalties. They're a perimeter team and the proof is in the playoffs when the game changes. I'm not saying that the way they call penalties in the playoffs is right, but it has been that way since the beginning of time.

Over the past 3 seasons, this is where the leafs rank in penalties drawn.

• This year, the leafs are ranked 18th with 81 penalties drawn. They're certainly not ranked so low because of the bias against them. The NHL favourite rangers are ranked 22nd. The league leading avalanche are ranked 21st. The Stars and Red Wings who are off to great starts are also ranked below the Leafs.
• Last season, the Leafs ranked in the middle of the league for penalties drawn with 7.86 minutes per game. 16 teams drew less penalties per game than them. I'm going to guess that the League doesn't dislike 16 teams more than the Leafs.
• Florida on the other hand drew the 4th most penalties per game. But, they also took the most penalties per 60

I think that points to a team that causes sh*t up and down the ice. They take a lot of penalties, but they draw a lot of penalties. The leafs have never been that team. When they have tried, they've brought on meatheads like Bertuzzi who have no idea how to cause trouble and still play hockey. Say what you want about Sam Bennett. The guy causes a lot of sh*t but still contributes. The Leafs haven't really had that since Tucker.

As I said on my original post, I don't think it's a case of Bettman having a poster on his wall that says "F*** the Leafs", my exact words saying I don't think it is malicious.

Joe S brings up an interesting point, what if it's just the fact that the NHL focuses on the teams that are in the most danger financially, so teams like the Leafs aren't really a team that they feel they have to do work with. It could also be the ownership group of the Leafs. Maybe they don't put pressure on the league, and squeaky wheel gets the grease, so because the Leafs ownership doesn't see this as a problem, it doesn't cause a fuss with the League. Whereas a team that has a single billionaire owner with an ego, they will go out and cause a rukus, similar to Andlauer bringing up tampering charges because papers were releasing rumours about Brady Tkachuk going to the Rangers.

Just on the penalty side, for reference, here are the Leafs penalties for the years that Keefe coached the league:

2019-20

31

197

22nd StatMuse

Bottom third

2020-21

31

155

20th StatMuse

Bottom third

2021-22

32

231

21st StatMuse

Bottom third

2022-23

32

246

18th StatMuse

Slightly below middle

2023-24

32

238

25th StatMuse

Bottom quarter

Here are the Oilers stats over the same time frame:

2019-20	200 PPO StatMuse	31	18th	Lower half
2020-21	174 PPO StatMuse+1	31	8th	Top third
2021-22	235 PPO StatMuse	32	19th	Lower half
2022-23	275 PPO StatMuse+1	32	6th	Top third
2023-24	243 PPO (2.96 PPO/GP) StatMuse+1	32	20th	Lower half

So the Oilers have ping ponged between the top third and the lower half. At least they have had years where they are in the top half of the league. The highest the Leafs have finished near the top of the league in PPO was 2010 - 2011 when they were third. Maybe the bias isn't a Leaf bias, but more of a score adjustment or bad team versus good team thing.

 

[cabber24]

Marner sucks without Eichell or Matthews…

 

[cw]

I apologize, but what do we think the advantage would be for the NHL to be bias against Toronto? Or are we suggesting that it's an unconscious bias?

I'll fully admit that I haven't been much of a team "addict" since the mid 90's. I don't know the last time I watched a regular season game from start to finish. Call it "too busy" or "couldn't be bothered". Perhaps this checking out was caused by having my first kid or it was brought on by this feeling of defeat you seem to be going through.

Though, I thoroughly love the sport itself. I will have hockey on the tv in some capacity most days of the week. Even if I can only tune in for 10 minutes of a game between two random teams. Or if I can watch a team with player's I coached on youtube or facebook. I spend most weekends at a rink. I'm the guy that comes in, sits in the stands, and watches other people's children practice while I wait for my kid's game to start.

So perhaps, the reason I'm able to continue to cheer for the Leafs is I've been able to take a step back and enjoy it for what it is. The sport I enjoy watching most. The Leafs are just lucky enough to be the team that gets to piss me off every second or third night.

"what do we think the advantage would be for the NHL to be bias against Toronto? Or are we suggesting that it's an unconscious bias?"

A financial advantage.

57 Cup-less years hasn't hurt the Leafs terribly financially. Some argue if they won, it might hurt them. Still strong TV ratings. The most valuable or one of the most valuable franchises making mega bucks.

South of the border, smaller market teams are not so well off. US broadcasting deals are a much bigger challenge. So if the league tosses them the odd extra bone to keep the smaller market fans happy, it isn't hurting the Leafs a whole heck of a lot on the business side of things. Arguably, that is 'good' business. "Means, motive, and opportunity"

 

[OldTimeHockey]

"what do we think the advantage would be for the NHL to be bias against Toronto? Or are we suggesting that it's an unconscious bias?"

A financial advantage.

57 Cup-less years hasn't hurt the Leafs terribly financially. Some argue if they won, it might hurt them. Still strong TV ratings. The most valuable or one of the most valuable franchises making mega bucks.

South of the border, smaller market teams are not so well off. US broadcasting deals are a much bigger challenge. So if the league tosses them the odd extra bone to keep the smaller market fans happy, it isn't hurting the Leafs a whole heck of a lot on the business side of things. Arguably, that is 'good' business. "Means, motive, and opportunity"

Yeah, again, I don't buy it. In the least.

Like I said, this is a conspiracy theory to explain why the team hasn't won in so long all while ignoring the gross mismanagement of the team.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

As I said on my original post, I don't think it's a case of Bettman having a poster on his wall that says "F*** the Leafs", my exact words saying I don't think it is malicious.

Joe S brings up an interesting point, what if it's just the fact that the NHL focuses on the teams that are in the most danger financially, so teams like the Leafs aren't really a team that they feel they have to do work with. It could also be the ownership group of the Leafs. Maybe they don't put pressure on the league, and squeaky wheel gets the grease, so because the Leafs ownership doesn't see this as a problem, it doesn't cause a fuss with the League. Whereas a team that has a single billionaire owner with an ego, they will go out and cause a rukus, similar to Andlauer bringing up tampering charges because papers were releasing rumours about Brady Tkachuk going to the Rangers.

Just on the penalty side, for reference, here are the Leafs penalties for the years that Keefe coached the league:

2019-20

31

197

22nd StatMuse

Bottom third

2020-21

31

155

20th StatMuse

Bottom third

2021-22

32

231

21st StatMuse

Bottom third

2022-23

32

246

18th StatMuse

Slightly below middle

2023-24

32

238

25th StatMuse

Bottom quarter

Here are the Oilers stats over the same time frame:

2019-20	200 PPO StatMuse	31	18th	Lower half
2020-21	174 PPO StatMuse+1	31	8th	Top third
2021-22	235 PPO StatMuse	32	19th	Lower half
2022-23	275 PPO StatMuse+1	32	6th	Top third
2023-24	243 PPO (2.96 PPO/GP) StatMuse+1	32	20th	Lower half

So the Oilers have ping ponged between the top third and the lower half. At least they have had years where they are in the top half of the league. The highest the Leafs have finished near the top of the league in PPO was 2010 - 2011 when they were third. Maybe the bias isn't a Leaf bias, but more of a score adjustment or bad team versus good team thing.

So we're going to go as far as to say that there are referees that are also into fixing the games so that the Leafs get more penalties. Like not one or two referees, but the entire group of them, across all 82 games?

Come on man. MLB/FBI just found a pitcher who was throwing an extra ball or two to a batter to gain betters a little extra coin. Are we going to pretend that in the last 10 years, there hasn't been a referee, or NHL front office person that would have came forward and called foul? Are we going to pretend that someone else wouldn't have red-flagged this other than desperate fans trying to explain why their team can't win?