2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
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mr grieves
Well-known member
Well, there's no running it back without a running partner. Are you "letting someone go" when they walk out on you?
So the options here were: (1) let Marner play out his contract and leave in free agency or for a rights trade, or (2) do whatever you need to do to move him out NMC be damned [i.e. take whatever Vegas will give you], or (3) read the room and move him out before the NMC kicks in.
Tre only really had options 1 and 2 available to him, and I don't really fault how he handled this. With the NMC, you're realistically looking at a one or maybe 2 (Dallas?) team list. Is there more than Roy that you can get? Sure, but not much.
Only Shanahan and Dubas could've gone through Door #3, and that they didn't might be among the worst things that've happened to the Leafs. cw is 100% right about the roster and pipeline Matthews is going to be looking at in a couple years. Would Marner have brought back some assets to help replenish the pipeline and round out the roster?
I disagree. This was not the only quote to that effect:
May 2024:
Within 30 days of that quote, a month before they could sign an extension, Treliving wasn't flying to Arizona to re-sign him - Treliving was talking to the media about trading Marner. Why should a player of Marner's stature want to continue to play in a place where his GM doesn't want him? Matthews was a priority. Marner wasn't.
ZBBM
Well-known member
Exactly. A competent GM gets a hometown superstar re-signed. (It's not like trying to re-up another guy we all know who never wanted to be with the team that drafted him in the first place.)
Apologies to anyone who doesn't want to talk about the biggest Leafs roster development in years. I won't be harping on it, but I won't memory-hole it either.
Managing is getting people to do things for you. For GM's in hockey, they have to sell ownership on their plans and get ownership to fund them. They have to get the coaching and staff to develop the talent they have - like Sam Bennett. And to implement systems that optimize the usage of the talent they have - etc. They have to get others like the scouts and other staff to do their parts. They have to attract talent to the club. And they have to sell good talent on their club on sticking around. If Marner was iffy, (I don't think he was at the outset), it was Treliving's job to sell him on sticking around - like it was for Gaudreau and Tkachuk - like it is for any GM. He might even fly to Arizona to close the deal. But before they could even sign a deal, Treliving was floating trading Marner. Doing that is not a great way on selling a guy who had declared he wanted to stay in Toronto on staying in Toronto. A top 10 NHL UFA scorer has options to go where he is wanted. A hunk of the responsibility for that is on Treliving. When Marner was a media piñata during the trade rumours Treliving helped to fuel, Treliving was limited in his efforts to defend him. So the guy left to play where he was wanted.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
Nylander and Matthews signed, no drama.
Mo signed, no drama.
Tavares just signed this summer, at a pretty good number. No drama.
Stolarz just signed for 4 years.
Knies just signed this summer for 6 years.
Seems like a terrible organization no one wants to play for.
Marner is like that really really hot chick you once dated. A freak in the sheets but really really high maintenance and absolutely bat shit crazy.
Mo signed, no drama.
Tavares just signed this summer, at a pretty good number. No drama.
Stolarz just signed for 4 years.
Knies just signed this summer for 6 years.
Seems like a terrible organization no one wants to play for.
Marner is like that really really hot chick you once dated. A freak in the sheets but really really high maintenance and absolutely bat shit crazy.
herman
Well-known member
I do agree with the read that Treliving was more muted in his press engagements about Marner, compared to Nylander and Matthews. It was around the same level as we got on Tavares, a touch higher.
Knowing the way Marner's agent and camp negotiates (they orchestrated a drop in the OHL draft to land in London by threatening to go to Michigan/NCAA), no general manager should throw his modicum of leverage out the door with public desperation to retain Marner. That's how you end up paying needle moving 10.9M x 6 for a winger that needed to be yoked to actual needle moving 1st overall centres.
If the rest of the read into Marner's motivations is accurate, then any player that wants to leave because he wasn't being properly feted like an emperor getting his dangly bits routinely gargled by the front office and fans should definitely look for that somewhere else.
I was kind of mad to hear the Leafs even offered him an 8 year deal, tbh.
Knowing the way Marner's agent and camp negotiates (they orchestrated a drop in the OHL draft to land in London by threatening to go to Michigan/NCAA), no general manager should throw his modicum of leverage out the door with public desperation to retain Marner. That's how you end up paying needle moving 10.9M x 6 for a winger that needed to be yoked to actual needle moving 1st overall centres.
If the rest of the read into Marner's motivations is accurate, then any player that wants to leave because he wasn't being properly feted like an emperor getting his dangly bits routinely gargled by the front office and fans should definitely look for that somewhere else.
I was kind of mad to hear the Leafs even offered him an 8 year deal, tbh.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Except he held out until Dec on his 2nd contract.
herman
Well-known member
Yep! but the whole time he expressed he wanted to stay in Toronto at a number and term that wouldn't be so perfunctory to trade away.
He also only had positive things to say about Toronto, despite being treated arguably worse by the media and fans than anything Marner had experienced.
Dubas and the front office believed Nylander's second contract would be a reasonable anchor point for Marner's, and tried to get him starting with 5, a la Kadri/Rielly. *laughs in PTSD*
mr grieves
Well-known member
Yes, that's the quote and media availability I'm referring to. Lock clean-out interviews of May 2024. Honestly, I don't see a player that's particularly interested in extending with the team, but, even if you do, there's the actions of his camp. Fact is, getting Marner on a new contract wasn't an option available to Treliving.
mr grieves
Well-known member
Except not this time. So...we're in better hands with Treliving? IDK.
He also didn't hold it against the org for doing so and signed a second extension. I mean come on. Do we really think Marner's camp wouldn't have made this into some sort of massive affront?
Anyway the original point was do we really need our best offensive players playing in all situations when in the end they can't score when they need it? Do we need players like Matthews blocking shots and risking a fracture? It's an open debate and lots of teams don't play their very best offensive forwards on the PK. Mackinnon doesn't play PK, McDavid either.
herman
Well-known member
This is very funny to me
herman
Well-known member
for reference,
The Athletic 2024-25 predicted:
Hockey-Viz 2024-25 predicted 104 as the high water mark for TOR
Leafs finished 1st in Atl at 108 pts last season, both published before Matthews showed up injured for the whole season
The Athletic 2024-25 predicted:
Hockey-Viz 2024-25 predicted 104 as the high water mark for TOR
Leafs finished 1st in Atl at 108 pts last season, both published before Matthews showed up injured for the whole season
dappleganger
Well-known member
This is very funny to me
Clearly the Buffalo Sabres will finish ahead of both Toronto and Florida.
bustaheims
Well-known member
The Athletic's system is one of the better ones for this kind of stuff. They're generally more accurate and data driven factoring multiple years of individual performances.
Meanwhile, HockeyViz has Reimer playing more than 1/4 of the Leafs' games, and he's not even signed to a real contract. They also seem heavily influenced by last year's performances.
Meanwhile, HockeyViz has Reimer playing more than 1/4 of the Leafs' games, and he's not even signed to a real contract. They also seem heavily influenced by last year's performances.
