2015 Toronto Blue Jays thread

[sickbeast]

I'm making this thread out of frustration due to the current shape of the Leafs. My family has season's tickets to the Jays and I have to admit that I'm somewhat intrigued by the moves they have made this off season.

There is talk that they might be getting Shields which would be very exciting if they can land him.

It's a shame about the Leafs but at least we have the Jays to talk about now.

 

[Andy007]

I'm not sure the Jays are much lower than the Leafs on the disappointment scale, sorry to say.

But Shields would be great. I don't think you can put much stock into what the "talk" says though. There are always so many reports about Jays being in on or thinking about this player and looking at this one; it's all meaningless.

Loved the Donaldson trade though.

 

[sickbeast]

At least the Jays won 2 championships 20 years ago. They are much less disappointing than the Leafs IMO.

 

[Arn]

I'd say they're worse really. 21 seasons without even making the post season, and probably about 19 without even really challenging to make it.

They're definitely more disappointing. I reckon several times in the last decade they've made big splashes in trades or free agency to aim to contend and then been out of things by the halfway point of the season

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Uhhhhhh 

@Buster_ESPN:

If TOR/Duquette deal finished, compensation substantial. Jeff Hoffman discussed.

 

[Andy007]

Uhhhhhh 

@Buster_ESPN:

If TOR/Duquette deal finished, compensation substantial. Jeff Hoffman discussed.

Why in blue hell would Toronto give up anything remotely near Hoffman for Dan Freaking Duquette? That just doesn't compute for me. Unless Rogers Jr. or whoever is in control over there is running wild in some weird kind of tyranny. My God!

 

[bustaheims]

Uhhhhhh 

@Buster_ESPN:

If TOR/Duquette deal finished, compensation substantial. Jeff Hoffman discussed.

This strikes me as being basically the same as when the Jays and BoSox "discussed" Buchholz for Farrell.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Uhhhhhh 

@Buster_ESPN:

If TOR/Duquette deal finished, compensation substantial. Jeff Hoffman discussed.

Why in blue hell would Toronto give up anything remotely near Hoffman for Dan Freaking Duquette? That just doesn't compute for me. Unless Rogers Jr. or whoever is in control over there is running wild in some weird kind of tyranny. My God!

Well, the big caveats are 1) who knows if that's even true; 2) "discussed" can be open to a number of interpretations.  Maybe the Orioles discussed it with them and Jays shot it down.

It would be so far outside the realm of what Boston received for Theo Epstein.

 

[Andy007]

Uhhhhhh 

@Buster_ESPN:

If TOR/Duquette deal finished, compensation substantial. Jeff Hoffman discussed.

This strikes me as being basically the same as when the Jays and BoSox "discussed" Buchholz for Farrell.

Hopefully that's the case. Olney did state that the compensation would be substantial, though.

 

[bustaheims]

Hopefully that's the case. Olney did state that the compensation would be substantial, though.

There's always the belief by some media types that the return in these situations will be that way, even though it really never has been in the past.

 

[L K]

This whole Blue Jays saga is extremely concerning for just how incompetent it is.

The whole scenario starts with Ed Rogers (Ted's son) going to Chicago and trying to pry Kenny Williams for the President role.  He talks to Williams BEFORE talking to Jerry Reinsdorf.  Reinsdorf is friends with Beeston and that's how Beeston finds out that Rogers is trying to replace him.

Beeston's contract expired in October and there has been absolutely nothing done about extending him or publicly talking about retirement/changing positions/stepping down.

The Jays pretty blatantly tampered with Danny Duqette too.  So while there isn't really a strong precedent with fining teams harshly for tampering, I wonder if the incompetent boobs running the organization on the ownership level and just asking to be slapped back into place.

 

[bustaheims]

Sounds like the whole Dan Duquette saga is over for now. The O's apparently asked for Hoffman, Pentecost and Mitch Nay for him. I understand Baltimore trying to shoot for the moon here, but, what they ended up with is a GM who reportedly wants out and a complicated (and, potentially toxic) front office situation. The Jays have their own awkward situation, but, IIRC, when Beeston came back to the Jays, there was an understanding it would be a short-term gig. I'm not sure he expected to be around past this season any way, so, I don't think it's quite as complicated on the Toronto side of things.

 

[bustaheims]

The Jays pretty blatantly tampered with Danny Duqette too. So while there isn't really a strong precedent with fining teams harshly for tampering, I wonder if the incompetent boobs running the organization on the ownership level and just asking to be slapped back into place.

Did they? I mean, all we really have to go are media reports. There's little to nothing in terms of direct quotes from anyone involved with the Jays about the situation and we really have no idea what happened outside of that. Obviously, somehow the media learned about the Jays' interest in Duquette, but, we don't really know whether that happened before or after the Orioles were asked for permission to discuss things. I also think the Williams thing is a little overstated, too. If it happened exactly how you describe it, there would be tampering charges from the ChiSox as well. The Jays may have began looking for replacements before informing Beeston, but I really question whether or not they approached individuals who were under contract before approaching their employers.

 

[Andy007]

As LK noted, Reinsdorf is friends with Beeston and there is even a quote about him not wanting to file tampering charges against such a close friend.

We'll have to wait and see if Angelos files tampering charges. But really, if we are to assume things "based on multiple media reports", wouldn't that lend more credence than, you know, nothing? It's not as if there are conflicting reports here.

 

[Andy007]

And here is a Toronto report that pretty much shows how blatantly incompetent the Jays have been:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/23/the-inside-story-on-how-rogers-tried-to-replace-blue-jays-president-paul-beeston

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And here is a Toronto report that pretty much shows how blatantly incompetent the Jays have Ed Rogers has been:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/23/the-inside-story-on-how-rogers-tried-to-replace-blue-jays-president-paul-beeston

 

[Andy007]

And here is a Toronto report that pretty much shows how blatantly incompetent the Jays have Ed Rogers has been:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/23/the-inside-story-on-how-rogers-tried-to-replace-blue-jays-president-paul-beeston

Absolutely but Ed Rogers doesn't get a tampering charge, the Blue Jays do.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And here is a Toronto report that pretty much shows how blatantly incompetent the Jays have Ed Rogers has been:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/23/the-inside-story-on-how-rogers-tried-to-replace-blue-jays-president-paul-beeston

Absolutely but Ed Rogers doesn't get a tampering charge, the Blue Jays do.

I know, I just don't think the entire organization deserves to be lumped in because of him (even if the organization gets a tampering charge).  He's the one being incompetent.

 

[Andy007]

And here is a Toronto report that pretty much shows how blatantly incompetent the Jays have Ed Rogers has been:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/23/the-inside-story-on-how-rogers-tried-to-replace-blue-jays-president-paul-beeston

Absolutely but Ed Rogers doesn't get a tampering charge, the Blue Jays do.

I know, I just don't think the entire organization deserves to be lumped in because of him (even if the organization gets a tampering charge).  He's the one being incompetent.

Well to say that the organization isn't incompetent is another debate altogether I guess.

But yea Rogers really did eff this up. I have to think that if it was the insistence that Hoffman, Pentecost and Nay all be included in the transaction that ended the talks that Eddie at least would have given up Hoffman, to say the least. That is frightening. 

 

[Kin]

As LK noted, Reinsdorf is friends with Beeston and there is even a quote about him not wanting to file tampering charges against such a close friend.

We'll have to wait and see if Angelos files tampering charges. But really, if we are to assume things "based on multiple media reports", wouldn't that lend more credence than, you know, nothing? It's not as if there are conflicting reports here.

Aren't the rules for tampering with front-office staff pretty loose though? I thought you could just straight up offer a job to someone in another organization provided you're offering them a promotion.