• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

Red Wings @ Maple Leafs - Jan. 14th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

CarltonTheBear

Administrator
Staff member
detroit_red_wings.svg

[td][/td]
[td]
toronto_maple_leafs.svg
[/td]

[tr]
[td]
Detroit Red Wings
21-16-5, 47 points
[/td]
[td]vs.[/td]
[td]
Toronto Maple Leafs
21-11-8, 50 points
[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td]                                                                      [/td]
[td]Projected
Lineups
[/td]
[td]                                                                      [/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td]Perron-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Compher-Kane
Rasmussen-Copp-Fischer
Fabbri-Veleno-Sprong

Gostisbehere-Seider
Chiarot-Petry
Maatta-Holl

Reimer[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Knies-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander
Holmberg-Domi-Jarnkrok
McMann-Kampf-Gregor

Rielly-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe
Giordano-Liljegren

Samsonov[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Scratches[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td]
Brogan Rafferty
Jake Walman[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]
Nick Robertson
Conor Timmins
William Lagesson[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Injuries[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td]
?Jake Walman - Illness - Questionable
?Klim Kostin - Upper Body - Injured Reserve
?Ville Husso - Lower Body - Injured Reserve
?Matt Luff - Upper Body - Injured Reserve[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]
?Ryan Reaves - Lower Body - Injured Reserve
?Joseph Woll - Lower Body - Injured Reserve
?John Klingberg - Lower Body - Injured Reserve[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Game notes[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]

DET
?James Reimer (3-6-2, 3.41 GAA, .889 Sv%) will start for the Red Wings

TOR
?Ilya Samsonov (5-2-6, 3.94 GAA, .862 Sv%) will likely start for the Leafs
?Keefe has said he's decided on a goalie for this game but has not announced it. We know it will not be Jones so either Samsonov will get his first start since December 29th or Dennis Hildeby will be called up for his NHL debut
                                                                            Streams                                                                           
OnHockey
NHL Webcast
 
Think we are headed for a rough next couple weeks. Jones is starting to look average and I have 0% faith in Samsonov. Western road trip going to be tough. I can honestly see us out of the playoffs after the Kraken game next Sunday unless the team gets back to the way they played against LA. The core 4 last night were absolutely crap. I still don't get not playing Hildeby. I don't like rushing young players especially a goalie but Samsonov doesn't install any confidence in me or a lot of others. Anyway I can see some major changes or Keefe gone if they don't get their crap together before the All Star break.
 
azzurri63 said:
Think we are headed for a rough next couple weeks. Jones is starting to look average and I have 0% faith in Samsonov. Western road trip going to be tough. I can honestly see us out of the playoffs after the Kraken game next Sunday unless the team gets back to the way they played against LA. The core 4 last night were absolutely crap. I still don't get not playing Hildeby. I don't like rushing young players especially a goalie but Samsonov doesn't install any confidence in me or a lot of others. Anyway I can see some major changes or Keefe gone if they don't get their crap together before the All Star break.

We will certainly have a much better idea where this team stands by the end of the month. They looked great beating up on the western weaklings, not so great in the last 2 games against actual playoff teams. I'm not ready to write them off but they still have the same problems with defending against good teams, being careless with the puck, etc.

I will say that the game last night was concerning in that the Av's top players thoroughly outplayed ours. Maybe it was just one of those nights, but it seems to happen too often in games against good teams. If you're paying half the cap to 4 players, they better win those encounters more often than not.

Samsonov in net...think I'm gonna sit this one out on principal. Hope he is up to the task.
 
Chris said:
azzurri63 said:
Think we are headed for a rough next couple weeks. Jones is starting to look average and I have 0% faith in Samsonov. Western road trip going to be tough. I can honestly see us out of the playoffs after the Kraken game next Sunday unless the team gets back to the way they played against LA. The core 4 last night were absolutely crap. I still don't get not playing Hildeby. I don't like rushing young players especially a goalie but Samsonov doesn't install any confidence in me or a lot of others. Anyway I can see some major changes or Keefe gone if they don't get their crap together before the All Star break.

We will certainly have a much better idea where this team stands by the end of the month. They looked great beating up on the western weaklings, not so great in the last 2 games against actual playoff teams. I'm not ready to write them off but they still have the same problems with defending against good teams, being careless with the puck, etc.

I will say that the game last night was concerning in that the Av's top players thoroughly outplayed ours. Maybe it was just one of those nights, but it seems to happen too often in games against good teams. If you're paying half the cap to 4 players, they better win those encounters more often than not.

Samsonov in net...think I'm gonna sit this one out on principal. Hope he is up to the task.

Just looking at the upcoming schedule too, and I agree 100%.  We should pretty much know where things stand by Feb 1.

I was thinking, Treliving has to be sitting there watching that last night and saying to himself, no way is this team, as is, going anywhere this year.  Can I fix it before or at the deadline?

If I could answer for him: no, you can't.  It starts in net.  We are now kind of banking on Woll, a guy who has barely played in the league. That right there means to me, look at the rest of the season as a way to get him reps and hopefully a few games in the playoffs ? but no expectations.  On top of that, all the problems you mention, Chris. 

Unless they go on a crazy heater I would get what I can for Bertuzzi and Domi.  Both have been underwhelming IMO and Domi especially is not a fit long-term as I see it.  I would also part company with Brodie, with thanks for some good years ? but he's declining.

I'm not advocating a complete fire sale at this point, but they need to try to aim for a post-JT-@$11M team.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Unless they go on a crazy heater I would get what I can for Bertuzzi and Domi.  Both have been underwhelming IMO and Domi especially is not a fit long-term as I see it.  I would also part company with Brodie, with thanks for some good years ? but he's declining.

I'm not advocating a complete fire sale at this point, but they need to try to aim for a post-JT-@$11M team.

I said that a few weeks ago re Domi and Bertuzzi and the idea was generally poo-pooed but I think I?m actually even more on this bandwagon now.

I think they still likely make the playoffs even without those 2 guys. Once they get there sure as we know anything can happen. In fact, they may even go into playoffs with even lower expectations and maybe that gets the shackles off.

There?s a decent amount of scope to rebuild next season.
 
I wouldn't be against trading Domi and Bertuzzi but unless catastrophe strikes and the Leafs look likely to miss the playoffs, it just doesn't seem like something they would do. It would take more guts than this management group seems to have, to essentially say "we're not going far in the playoffs this year so we're going to look toward the future." They seem to have the mindset "get in the playoffs and anything can happen", even though they don't have goaltending and defense and the top forwards often get shut down in tight playoff games. But yeah, anything can happen!

I do agree (and have stated such several times) that I am looking to the years post-Tavares $11 mil as the time the Leafs should be building toward.

One thing has now been clarified - the Leafs have committed to Matthews and Nylander long term. That leaves open the Marner question. He can't be traded (unless he agrees, which seems unlikely) and past history suggests he's going to want Nylander money+. I don't think that can work and it will be interesting to see if the Leafs feel the same. Again, the path of least resistance is to just give him whatever he wants and continue to have a weaker team overall that is entertaining, makes the playoffs, but never is a serious threat to win it all. Marner/Nylander/Matthews will retire as all time leading scorers in Leaf history and the Cup drought will be 60+ years.
 
Chris said:
I wouldn't be against trading Domi and Bertuzzi but unless catastrophe strikes and the Leafs look likely to miss the playoffs, it just doesn't seem like something they would do. It would take more guts than this management group seems to have, to essentially say "we're not going far in the playoffs this year so we're going to look toward the future." They seem to have the mindset "get in the playoffs and anything can happen", even though they don't have goaltending and defense and the top forwards often get shut down in tight playoff games. But yeah, anything can happen!

I do agree (and have stated such several times) that I am looking to the years post-Tavares $11 mil as the time the Leafs should be building toward.

One thing has now been clarified - the Leafs have committed to Matthews and Nylander long term. That leaves open the Marner question. He can't be traded (unless he agrees, which seems unlikely) and past history suggests he's going to want Nylander money+. I don't think that can work and it will be interesting to see if the Leafs feel the same. Again, the path of least resistance is to just give him whatever he wants and continue to have a weaker team overall that is entertaining, makes the playoffs, but never is a serious threat to win it all. Marner/Nylander/Matthews will retire as all time leading scorers in Leaf history and the Cup drought will be 60+ years.

There lies the problem "give him whatever he wants". I've seen enough of this core and strategy to say it's not working. Management should see that. If MLSE's goal is to have a competitive entertaining team that can't seem to go deep then they are complete imbeciles. Goal is to build a winning team that can compete for a cup not to excel only in the regular season. Bruins had one of the best regular seasons ever last year. Does anyone remember that? No. Dubas did not address the team from the blue line to the net and the core always seems to have us second guessing their signings and limiting things.
 
azzurri63 said:
Chris said:
I wouldn't be against trading Domi and Bertuzzi but unless catastrophe strikes and the Leafs look likely to miss the playoffs, it just doesn't seem like something they would do. It would take more guts than this management group seems to have, to essentially say "we're not going far in the playoffs this year so we're going to look toward the future." They seem to have the mindset "get in the playoffs and anything can happen", even though they don't have goaltending and defense and the top forwards often get shut down in tight playoff games. But yeah, anything can happen!

I do agree (and have stated such several times) that I am looking to the years post-Tavares $11 mil as the time the Leafs should be building toward.

One thing has now been clarified - the Leafs have committed to Matthews and Nylander long term. That leaves open the Marner question. He can't be traded (unless he agrees, which seems unlikely) and past history suggests he's going to want Nylander money+. I don't think that can work and it will be interesting to see if the Leafs feel the same. Again, the path of least resistance is to just give him whatever he wants and continue to have a weaker team overall that is entertaining, makes the playoffs, but never is a serious threat to win it all. Marner/Nylander/Matthews will retire as all time leading scorers in Leaf history and the Cup drought will be 60+ years.

There lies the problem "give him whatever he wants". I've seen enough of this core and strategy to say it's not working. Management should see that. If MLSE's goal is to have a competitive entertaining team that can't seem to go deep then they are complete imbeciles. Goal is to build a winning team that can compete for a cup not to excel only in the regular season. Bruins had one of the best regular seasons ever last year. Does anyone remember that? No. Dubas did not address the team from the blue line to the net and the core always seems to have us second guessing their signings and limiting things.

You remember it. You just mentioned it. You wouldn?t be able to talk about it if you didn?t remember it
 
Arn said:
azzurri63 said:
Chris said:
I wouldn't be against trading Domi and Bertuzzi but unless catastrophe strikes and the Leafs look likely to miss the playoffs, it just doesn't seem like something they would do. It would take more guts than this management group seems to have, to essentially say "we're not going far in the playoffs this year so we're going to look toward the future." They seem to have the mindset "get in the playoffs and anything can happen", even though they don't have goaltending and defense and the top forwards often get shut down in tight playoff games. But yeah, anything can happen!

I do agree (and have stated such several times) that I am looking to the years post-Tavares $11 mil as the time the Leafs should be building toward.

One thing has now been clarified - the Leafs have committed to Matthews and Nylander long term. That leaves open the Marner question. He can't be traded (unless he agrees, which seems unlikely) and past history suggests he's going to want Nylander money+. I don't think that can work and it will be interesting to see if the Leafs feel the same. Again, the path of least resistance is to just give him whatever he wants and continue to have a weaker team overall that is entertaining, makes the playoffs, but never is a serious threat to win it all. Marner/Nylander/Matthews will retire as all time leading scorers in Leaf history and the Cup drought will be 60+ years.

There lies the problem "give him whatever he wants". I've seen enough of this core and strategy to say it's not working. Management should see that. If MLSE's goal is to have a competitive entertaining team that can't seem to go deep then they are complete imbeciles. Goal is to build a winning team that can compete for a cup not to excel only in the regular season. Bruins had one of the best regular seasons ever last year. Does anyone remember that? No. Dubas did not address the team from the blue line to the net and the core always seems to have us second guessing their signings and limiting things.

You remember it. You just mentioned it. You wouldn?t be able to talk about it if you didn?t remember it

You're not getting what I mean. Does anyone remember who finishes second that's my point. They had a great regular season and it was all for not. Didn't mean sweet f all. You build a team to win a cup not for regular season accolades. This team has a bunch of deficiencies and it's all from having to build a roster around 4 stars who eat up too much of the cap. It may work but I don't see it with these 4. Some people on here think it's a recipe for a winner I've been saying otherwise. Until they prove me wrong I'll keep posting how I feel.
 
https://twitter.com/jtbourne/status/1746670056455458844

https://x.com/mikeystephens81/status/1746668250417549354
 
Chris said:
azzurri63 said:
Think we are headed for a rough next couple weeks. Jones is starting to look average and I have 0% faith in Samsonov. Western road trip going to be tough. I can honestly see us out of the playoffs after the Kraken game next Sunday unless the team gets back to the way they played against LA. The core 4 last night were absolutely crap. I still don't get not playing Hildeby. I don't like rushing young players especially a goalie but Samsonov doesn't install any confidence in me or a lot of others. Anyway I can see some major changes or Keefe gone if they don't get their crap together before the All Star break.

We will certainly have a much better idea where this team stands by the end of the month. They looked great beating up on the western weaklings, not so great in the last 2 games against actual playoff teams. I'm not ready to write them off but they still have the same problems with defending against good teams, being careless with the puck, etc.

I think we need to see what Woll is capable of when he returns.
That could be tough because he may take a while to recover his form.
I think Jones has done a pretty good job but him being backed up by Samsonov for the playoffs ...

Chris said:
I will say that the game last night was concerning in that the Av's top players thoroughly outplayed ours. Maybe it was just one of those nights, but it seems to happen too often in games against good teams. If you're paying half the cap to 4 players, they better win those encounters more often than not.

Samsonov in net...think I'm gonna sit this one out on principal. Hope he is up to the task.

LA has been a pretty good team but they've slipped into a pretty bad slump. Only 2 wins in their last 10. Anaheim and San Jose are terrible. Four games against those teams isn't likely to stress the defense much. At least the Leafs took care of the easier competition - which they haven't always done as thoroughly this season.

Back to playing an average team like the Islanders or a true contender like the Avalanche will stress the Leafs 20th ranked defence and 25th ranked PK and cause breakdowns the weaker competition could not. I think that is likely what happened. I do not believe they merely suddenly started to play bad. Nor that it is all the refs fault with missed calls (some of those complaints about the refs seem to have some substance). To me, more generally, the warts of this season got re-exposed by the stiffer competition placing pressure on them.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Chris said:
azzurri63 said:
Think we are headed for a rough next couple weeks. Jones is starting to look average and I have 0% faith in Samsonov. Western road trip going to be tough. I can honestly see us out of the playoffs after the Kraken game next Sunday unless the team gets back to the way they played against LA. The core 4 last night were absolutely crap. I still don't get not playing Hildeby. I don't like rushing young players especially a goalie but Samsonov doesn't install any confidence in me or a lot of others. Anyway I can see some major changes or Keefe gone if they don't get their crap together before the All Star break.

We will certainly have a much better idea where this team stands by the end of the month. They looked great beating up on the western weaklings, not so great in the last 2 games against actual playoff teams. I'm not ready to write them off but they still have the same problems with defending against good teams, being careless with the puck, etc.

I will say that the game last night was concerning in that the Av's top players thoroughly outplayed ours. Maybe it was just one of those nights, but it seems to happen too often in games against good teams. If you're paying half the cap to 4 players, they better win those encounters more often than not.

Samsonov in net...think I'm gonna sit this one out on principal. Hope he is up to the task.

Just looking at the upcoming schedule too, and I agree 100%.  We should pretty much know where things stand by Feb 1.

I was thinking, Treliving has to be sitting there watching that last night and saying to himself, no way is this team, as is, going anywhere this year.  Can I fix it before or at the deadline?

If I could answer for him: no, you can't.  It starts in net.  We are now kind of banking on Woll, a guy who has barely played in the league. That right there means to me, look at the rest of the season as a way to get him reps and hopefully a few games in the playoffs ? but no expectations.  On top of that, all the problems you mention, Chris. 

Unless they go on a crazy heater I would get what I can for Bertuzzi and Domi.  Both have been underwhelming IMO and Domi especially is not a fit long-term as I see it.  I would also part company with Brodie, with thanks for some good years ? but he's declining.

I'm not advocating a complete fire sale at this point, but they need to try to aim for a post-JT-@$11M team.

I think it would be really hard for Treliving to sell "We're having a fire sale" to the MLSE board
That board just got done putting a gun to Dubas' head to win a playoff round.

They're 11th in win%. They're not a real contender. Maybe second tier if they don't suffer any more serious injuries. The Avalanche, a real contender, provided some evidence of that last night.

So then I played around with "last year as a contender, they had about a 10% shot. This year, they're probably between 5% and 7%. So maybe they could land a dman and that is it .. - that one talent add might be a decent bang for their prospect buck if it is not a top prospect/pick"
That might be a stretch because so far, there seem to be a limited number of decent dmen available.

To get them back to true contender status would probably cost them Cowan, Minten & a 1st - or much of what quality they have left in the prospect/draft cupboard. Then they're in deeper cap purgatory in the next few years when they're trying to contend before Matthews deal expires.

Treliving is not in an easy place.
 
https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1746689279294648546
I suggested 1LW Holmberg like 3 years ago :)

This is one of the biggest lineup blends I?ve seen Keefe rip off.
 
Back
Top