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Nashville to buyout Lebda

maplesyrup

New member
RealKyper Nick KypreosNHL news.
Predators place former Leafs Lebda on unconditional waivers today. In all probability for purpose of being bought out

... and Lombardi is progressing

:)
 
Floyd said:
RealKyper Nick KypreosNHL news.
Predators place former Leafs Lebda on unconditional waivers today. In all probability for purpose of being bought out

There was some question as to whether they could buy him out right now
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2011-08-06/nashville-predators-waive-brett-lebda-buyout-maple-leafs-red-wings-shea-weber

11.18 Ordinary Course Buy-Outs Outside the Regular Period. Clubs shall have the right to exercise Ordinary Course Buy-Outs outside the regular period for Ordinary Course Buy-Outs in accordance with Paragraph 13(c)(ii) of the SPC. Each Club shall be limited to no more than three (3) such buyouts over the term of this Agreement pursuant to Paragraph 13(c)(ii) of the SPC. However, in the event that a Club has only one salary arbitration hearing pursuant to Section 12.3(a) in a given League Year, such Club shall not be entitled to exercise such a buyout outside the regular period for Ordinary Course Buy-Outs. No Club shall exercise an Ordinary Course Buy-out outside the regular period for any Player earning less than $1 million. 

But Nashville had Weber and Kostitsyn scheduled for arbitration (two players)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/arbitration-season-set-to-begin-for-nhl/article2101046/
so I don't understand the concern.
 
cw said:
But Nashville had Weber and Kostitsyn scheduled for arbitration (two players)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/arbitration-season-set-to-begin-for-nhl/article2101046/
so I don't understand the concern.

But, they only actually had the one hearing, which is how it is spelled out in that section of the CBA - and, section 12.3(a) is about Club elected arbitration specifically, which only applies to Weber and not Kostitsyn, and players with a Paragraph 1 salary of greater than $1.5M in the previous season, which, again, only applies to Weber, as Kostitsyn's salary was $550K in 10/11.
 
Busta Reims said:
cw said:
But Nashville had Weber and Kostitsyn scheduled for arbitration (two players)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/arbitration-season-set-to-begin-for-nhl/article2101046/
so I don't understand the concern.

But, they only actually had the one hearing, which is how it is spelled out in that section of the CBA - and, section 12.3(a) is about Club elected arbitration specifically, which only applies to Weber and not Kostitsyn, and players with a Paragraph 1 salary of greater than $1.5M in the previous season, which, again, only applies to Weber, as Kostitsyn's salary was $550K in 10/11.

I don't think the arbitration cases HAVE to go to hearings for the second buyout window to open (although I understand that's how it sounds in the CBA). In 2008, Minnesota had 2 players elect for arbitration in Pierre-Marc Bouchard and Stephane Veilleux. Both players re-signed with the Wild before their hearings took place, and the Wild later bought out Mark Parrish during the 2nd buyout window.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Busta Reims said:
cw said:
But Nashville had Weber and Kostitsyn scheduled for arbitration (two players)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/arbitration-season-set-to-begin-for-nhl/article2101046/
so I don't understand the concern.

But, they only actually had the one hearing, which is how it is spelled out in that section of the CBA - and, section 12.3(a) is about Club elected arbitration specifically, which only applies to Weber and not Kostitsyn, and players with a Paragraph 1 salary of greater than $1.5M in the previous season, which, again, only applies to Weber, as Kostitsyn's salary was $550K in 10/11.

I don't think the arbitration cases HAVE to go to hearings for the second buyout window to open (although I understand that's how it sounds in the CBA). In 2008, Minnesota had 2 players elect for arbitration in Pierre-Marc Bouchard and Stephane Veilleux. Both players re-signed with the Wild before their hearings took place, and the Wild later bought out Mark Parrish during the 2nd buyout window.

Here's the clause:
12.3 Eligibility for Club-Elected Salary Arbitration. Subject to subsections (c) and
(d) below and the eligibility requirements set forth in Article 12.1, a Club will have the
right to elect to take a Player to salary arbitration under the following conditions:
53
(a) Club-Elected Salary Arbitration For Players With Paragraph 1 NHL
Salaries plus Signing, Roster, and Reporting Bonuses Greater Than $1,500,000 In The
Prior League Year.
(i) If a Player who is otherwise eligible to receive a Qualifying Offer
and become a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent had a Paragraph 1
NHL Salary plus Signing, Roster and Reporting Bonuses in excess
of $1,500,000 in the aggregate in the final League Year of his most
recent SPC, a Club may elect to file for salary arbitration to
determine the Player's Paragraph 1 Salary for the upcoming
League Year in lieu of making a Qualifying Offer to such Player.

(ii) In any salary arbitration that takes place pursuant to this Section
12.3(a), the Salary Arbitrator may not award the Player a
Paragraph 1 Salary that is less than eighty-five (85) percent of the
aggregate sum of Player's Paragraph 1 Salary plus Signing,
Reporting and Roster Bonuses in the final League Year of his most
recent SPC.


I think the purpose is that after filing for arbitration, the club has considerable uncertainty with more than one arbitration case within it's roster. The second buy-out period arguably more fairly allows the club the flexibility to keep a player after the arbitration decision and to dispose of a player who might have been a backup should they have to walk away. To me, the uncertainty exists whether they have an actual hearing or not.
 
cw said:
I think the purpose is that after filing for arbitration, the club has considerable uncertainty with more than one arbitration case within it's roster. The second buy-out period arguably more fairly allows the club the flexibility to keep a player after the arbitration decision and to dispose of a player who might have been a backup should they have to walk away. To me, the uncertainty exists whether they have an actual hearing or not.

By the same token, to some degree, that uncertainty exists whether or not a player even files for arbitration (in fact, it could be argued that it's a more uncertain situation, as, if a player is involved in an arbitration filing, the team knows that the player will be under contract in time for training camp before the upcoming season unless they choose to walk away from the decision and that the player can not be signed to an offer sheet), so, using that as a benchmark for allowing a team to use the second buy-out period when they didn't have the arbitration hearing seems somewhat arbitrary. That aside, however, even were one to include that as a parameter for allowing for use of the second buy-out period, Kostitsyn's arbitration filing doesn't qualify under section 12.3(a) being that A) it wasn't club elected and B) his salary in 10/11 was less than $1.5M. If teams are to be allowed leniency for having uncertainty created for them by having players file for arbitration (which seems to be the case), it follows fairly logically that they should not have the same benefits if they're responsible for creating the uncertainty themselves by taking a player to arbitration.
 
Busta Reims said:
cw said:
I think the purpose is that after filing for arbitration, the club has considerable uncertainty with more than one arbitration case within it's roster. The second buy-out period arguably more fairly allows the club the flexibility to keep a player after the arbitration decision and to dispose of a player who might have been a backup should they have to walk away. To me, the uncertainty exists whether they have an actual hearing or not.

By the same token, to some degree, that uncertainty exists whether or not a player even files for arbitration (in fact, it could be argued that it's a more uncertain situation, as, if a player is involved in an arbitration filing, the team knows that the player will be under contract in time for training camp before the upcoming season unless they choose to walk away from the decision and that the player can not be signed to an offer sheet), so, using that as a benchmark for allowing a team to use the second buy-out period when they didn't have the arbitration hearing seems somewhat arbitrary. That aside, however, even were one to include that as a parameter for allowing for use of the second buy-out period, Kostitsyn's arbitration filing doesn't qualify under section 12.3(a) being that A) it wasn't club elected and B) his salary in 10/11 was less than $1.5M. If teams are to be allowed leniency for having uncertainty created for them by having players file for arbitration (which seems to be the case), it follows fairly logically that they should not have the same benefits if they're responsible for creating the uncertainty themselves by taking a player to arbitration.

13 (c) of SPC
(ii) For Clubs who have Club or Player elected Salary Arbitration filings pursuant to Article 12, within the forty-eight (48) hour period beginning on the third day following the later of: (i) the Club?s receipt of its last salary arbitration award; or (ii) settlement of its last case (provided such award was received or such settlement occurred after 7:00 p.m. New York time; awards or settlements that occurred or were received after 7:00 p.m. New York time will be deemed to have occurred or received the following business day for purposes of this provision).


Lebda was bought out officially yesterday.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2011-08-10/nashville-predators-buy-out-brett-lebda
http://blogs.tennessean.com/predators/2011/08/10/goodbye-brett-lebda/

I think Kostitsyn electing arbitration triggered their ability to do so.

As for the issue over uncertainty, when it's a RFA without arbitration, the team has much more control over "when" they can make a decision and what dollars they'll make the decision on. With arbitration, the team loses control over "when" they can make a decision and carry that uncertainty of dollars over whether they'll keep the player or not until the arbitration process is over. Arbitration brings a third party into the process and arguably forces the process getting dragged out.

So I don't have an enormous problem with arbitration triggering a teams ability to buy someone out under a cap system. There seems to be some justification for it because the decision time frame has been delayed which is probably why the NHLPA went along with it when they haggled the CBA.
 
So how much money did this loser get for losing. What was the dollar value on his buyout and will anyone else touch him outside of the KHL Wish I had learned to skate when I was younger. Money for nothing!
 
Highlander said:
So how much money did this loser get for losing. What was the dollar value on his buyout and will anyone else touch him outside of the KHL Wish I had learned to skate when I was younger. Money for nothing!

Lebda has made around 5 mil in his nhl career ( including buyout numbers at least ). He also has a cup ring.
 
Tigger said:
Highlander said:
So how much money did this loser get for losing. What was the dollar value on his buyout and will anyone else touch him outside of the KHL Wish I had learned to skate when I was younger. Money for nothing!

Lebda has made around 5 mil in his nhl career ( including buyout numbers at least ). He also has a cup ring.

A testament to the adage, its not what you know its who you know.
 
Ouch I don't see why Nashville would throw in Franson with Weber and Suter coming to free agency.  I also don't see why they would throw away Lombardi when he was so close to coming back, what is wrong with their medical team? 

to think there was a point I thought Poile would be a good GM for the Leafs...
 
I like to think that, at some point, Brett Lebda will really serve as the go-to example of just how much we overrate the importance of who the 6/7 defensemen or 4th liners are.
 
Captain Canuck said:
Columbus just signed Lebda to a 1 year contract...must be really desperate!

Columbus has laid down the boom, letting the rest of the league know they're "going for it" next season.
 
I'm curious, though.  McCabe is a free agent too, and probably wouldn't require more than the minimum.  I don't think he's formally retired yet.  Would he not be a better option?

(unless he's hoping for an injury on a "contender"...)
 
louisstamos said:
I'm curious, though.  McCabe is a free agent too, and probably wouldn't require more than the minimum.  I don't think he's formally retired yet.  Would he not be a better option?

(unless he's hoping for an injury on a "contender"...)

Obviously things may have changed but I remember hearing a radio interview this summer with his agent where he said unless that he can sign on with a cup contender, he'd pass on any offers. Based on what he said, my guess is he'll make his retirement official in the near future. 
 
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