Making Sense of the Leafs D

[cw]

I've been trying to assess the Leafs NHL dman talent and how it fits together. I mentioned this in a post on the site before it went down.

For the purpose of simplifying my evaluation, I'm ignoring Lashoff and Finger for the moment as I expect most feel they're bound for the minors if nothing else changes.

I'm also assuming Marlies dmen Blacker, Gardiner, Holzer, Mikus & Gysbers also need AHL seasoning to start the season ignoring the possibility of a stellar camp.

Currently, on the left side, we have Liles, Aulie & Gunnarsson.
On the right side, we have Schenn, Phaneuf, Komisarek & Franson.

Presumably all can play even strength - some better than others.

Liles & Franson seem light in PK playing time & maybe ability.

Schenn, Aulie & Komisarek are not strong on the PP to date.

It not beyond the realm of possibility for a dman to switch sides but not all that common either.

Maybe it's just me but as I try to fit them together through the different playing situations, it seems a little more awkward than in previous years.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[AvroArrow]

Aulie - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gunnarsson - Franson/Komi

PK:
Aulie - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Schenn

PP:
Liles - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Franson/Schenn?

 

[Kin]

Aulie - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gunnarsson - Franson/Komi

PK:
Aulie - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Schenn

PP:
Liles - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Franson/Schenn?

Those are roughly the same combos I had in my head. The thing I keep coming back to though is that #2 spot. I don't think the Leafs have anyone who I look at and say "that guy's a really good top pairing match for Phaneuf" and, even then, I'm not entirely sold on Phaneuf there either. That's a good, deep blueline but I really question if there's a potential all-star among the bunch.

 

[cw]

The other thing that hit me was how much flipping of partners could be involved. For example, a dman comes off a shift and then has to head back out after only a one shift break because their D has to play in a different situation. I suppose it happens on many teams but it just seems to happen a little more with that mix of dmen (or maybe I'm wrong on that).

Whichever coach manages the D pairings during the game, he could have his hands full getting rested guys that "fit" together out there for all situations.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

The other thing that hit me was how much flipping of partners could be involved. For example, a dman comes off a shift and then has to head back out after only a one shift break because their D has to play in a different situation. I suppose it happens on many teams but it just seems to happen a little more with that mix of dmen (or maybe I'm wrong on that).

Whichever coach manages the D pairings during the game, he could have his hands full getting rested guys that "fit" together out there for all situations.

That's actually a point, to me, that is in favour of Avro's pairings. You won't find very many teams who use the exact same pairings in all situations, and Avro's combos have one PP pair thats the same as ES and one PK pair thats the same as ES.

If that pair was on the ice when the penalty was called, you start with the other one. If either other pair was on the ice, you start with the un-switched pair.

 

[Tigger]

Those pairings seem right to me for the most part Avro, I'd maybe have Schenn on the first pk unit instead of Dion and I'd certainly try out Franson on the second PP unit over Luke but each es unit seems to have a decent blend of offense and defense, though maybe not ideal. I guess the question comes into the bottom pairings for me a bit but we'll have to see how Franson does and whether Komi regains some form and has a positive impact.

It would be nice if Phaneuf actually turned into the 'stud' dman Burke was hoping to get, he certainly played much better once he got his legs back after the laceration last year.

 

[AvroArrow]

Aulie - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gunnarsson - Franson/Komi

PK:
Aulie - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Schenn

PP:
Liles - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Franson/Schenn?

Those are roughly the same combos I had in my head. The thing I keep coming back to though is that #2 spot. I don't think the Leafs have anyone who I look at and say "that guy's a really good top pairing match for Phaneuf" and, even then, I'm not entirely sold on Phaneuf there either. That's a good, deep blueline but I really question if there's a potential all-star among the bunch.

#2 spot where?  # 2 PP, #2 PK, #2 pairing

 

[AvroArrow]

Those pairings seem right to me for the most part Avro, I'd maybe have Schenn on the first pk unit instead of Dion and I'd certainly try out Franson on the second PP unit over Luke but each es unit seems to have a decent blend of offense and defense, though maybe not ideal. I guess the question comes into the bottom pairings for me a bit but we'll have to see how Franson does and whether Komi regains some form and has a positive impact.

It would be nice if Phaneuf actually turned into the 'stud' dman Burke was hoping to get, he certainly played much better once he got his legs back after the laceration last year.

Re: Franson over Schenn on PP2.  I definitely agree.  Schenn was thrown in as a question because I think we'll see Franson and Komi rotated in and out.  When Franson is in, he's your PP guy, when he's not, Schenn's the next best thing (IMO, anyways).

 

[Tigger]

Those pairings seem right to me for the most part Avro, I'd maybe have Schenn on the first pk unit instead of Dion and I'd certainly try out Franson on the second PP unit over Luke but each es unit seems to have a decent blend of offense and defense, though maybe not ideal. I guess the question comes into the bottom pairings for me a bit but we'll have to see how Franson does and whether Komi regains some form and has a positive impact.

It would be nice if Phaneuf actually turned into the 'stud' dman Burke was hoping to get, he certainly played much better once he got his legs back after the laceration last year.

Re: Franson over Schenn on PP2.  I definitely agree.  Schenn was thrown in as a question because I think we'll see Franson and Komi rotated in and out.  When Franson is in, he's your PP guy, when he's not, Schenn's the next best thing (IMO, anyways).

Got you, I agree with that.

 

[cw]

One thing maybe I'd consider is going with a 7 man D while they sort this out. It does improve the D.

Who cares if Colton Orr gets five minutes of ice time against a team that doesn't fight?

My 4th line might be two guys: a PK specialist (Brown/Dupuis) and a PP specialist/shootout guy. There's no reason Bozak & Armstrong couldn't play more than 12-13 minutes to pick up the slack - they could give that 3rd line and their top 6 a little more ice time to help compensate.

That's slightly thinking outside of the box but might be a way to maximize the results with this current group.

The D could be:

ES:
Aulie - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gunnarsson - Komi

- probably best pairing at even strength (and break in Franson to replace Komi if Komi sucks)

PK:
Aulie - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson/Komi - Schenn

who would be the best four Pkers

PP:
Liles - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Franson

who would be the best four PP dmen

The result being a better D than what they could do with six.

And maybe I'm just plain nuts desperately searching for a way to help them ...

 

[maplesyrup]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

 

[cw]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

 

[Tigger]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

If those two could replace Komi and Liles ( not sure how realistic that is but just for argument ) the Leafs average age would really start to get ridiculous, in a good way.

 

[maplesyrup]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

If those two could replace Komi and Liles ( not sure how realistic that is but just for argument ) the Leafs average age would really start to get ridiculous, in a good way.

... and maybe Percy replacing another guy 2/3 years from now. One could easily say that depth on "D" system-wide is the strength of this franchise right now.

 

[Tigger]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

If those two could replace Komi and Liles ( not sure how realistic that is but just for argument ) the Leafs average age would really start to get ridiculous, in a good way.

... and maybe Percy replacing another guy 2/3 years from now. One could easily say that depth on "D" system-wide is the strength of this franchise right now.

Sure seems that way, on top of that with all the ufas in 2 years the cap seems pretty flexible too.

 

[cw]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

If those two could replace Komi and Liles ( not sure how realistic that is but just for argument ) the Leafs average age would really start to get ridiculous, in a good way.

Neither of them play the style of game that would replace Komi's physical style - their forte is puck movement & PP. But with Schenn, Aulie & Phaneuf and big Franson, maybe we have enough big guys - particularly if either if the two kids can PK.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

... and maybe Percy replacing another guy 2/3 years from now. One could easily say that depth on "D" system-wide is the strength of this franchise right now.

I don't think there is any doubt that the Leafs strength is depth on D. Gardiner and Blacker are look to be NHL guys Gyspers, Holzer and Mikus look decent as well.

 

[Tigger]

Anything could happen of course but I really like how our D looks this year. By all accounts Blacker and Gardiner are close too so its nice to see some depth here.

Blacker and Gardiner certainly provide us with depth and quite possibly can negate the need to re-sign Liles or a replacement/substitute next summer.

If those two could replace Komi and Liles ( not sure how realistic that is but just for argument ) the Leafs average age would really start to get ridiculous, in a good way.

Neither of them play the style of game that would replace Komi's physical style - their forte is puck movement & PP. But with Schenn, Aulie & Phaneuf and big Franson, maybe we have enough big guys - particularly if either if the two kids can PK.

Yeah, he's the guy I was thinking of when considering how realistic that idea is but Blacker has a physical element to his game and was excellent on the PK last year ( PP too for that matter though not in Komi's league for physicality but fair and quite resilient ) and Gardiner seems like he has potential to replace Liles skillset.

 

[hockeyfan1]

http://list.canadianbusiness.com/rankings/puck_money/2011/defenders/Default.aspx?sp2=3&sc1=0&d1=a

Komisarek ranks last among the more than 140 defencemen valued.

The methodology of a player's value is described here:

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/48086--puck-money-methodology


                       

 

[slapshot]

A lot of people seems to view it like it's a given that Liles is only around for one year because we have all these young d-men. I really like what he brings to the team - a different style than all the rest, except Gardiner. I'd personally like to hang on to him, if he proves to be responsible defensively over the season. He and Gardiner would be very effective PP 1 and 2 from the left side.