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CaptainObvious said:Looks like we won that deal, no?
Kin said:CaptainObvious said:Looks like we won that deal, no?
I mean, I guess. But to some extent the Leafs just swapped around first rounders, didn't they?
CarltonTheBear said:Sort of, but I mean I'd take the guy we picked with that first round pick (Biggs) over Paradis/Tlusty any day of the week.
Kin said:CarltonTheBear said:Sort of, but I mean I'd take the guy we picked with that first round pick (Biggs) over Paradis/Tlusty any day of the week.
Percy was the pick with the Flyers first rounder, wasn't he? I thought Biggs was the result of swapping the #30 +#39 pick for the #22.
CarltonTheBear said:Oh, right. I forgot about the trade. Still, replace Percy with Biggs in that statement and it's still as true. Paradis and Tlusty were at the time, and still are, unlikely to make a significant impact in the NHL.
Kin said:edit: Also, I mean, if in that whole mess we're really going to look at "who's most likely to make a significant impact in the NHL?" then it strikes me as being pretty obvious that the answer is Versteeg.
CarltonTheBear said:Yeah, if we're going to add the Versteeg to Philly trade in the discussion, then yeah it will be a few years before we can conclude who won that deal. But looking exclusively at the Stalberg to Chicago trade, I think it's definitely a win for us. Paradis and DiDomenico will both be lucky to make the NHL, and Stalberg could find himself out of it in a couple of years if he doesn't turn things around.
Kin said:I don't know, if you can't declare a winner Philly/Toronto I don't think you can Toronto/Chicago either because it's the same principal.
CarltonTheBear said:If you expand the Chicago trade to include what we got for Versteeg from Philly, then there's an even bigger element of "wait and see" but value-wise we still made out like bandits. There isn't a GM out there that would have traded a first rounder for Stalberg and a couple of nobodies.
Kin said:CarltonTheBear said:If you expand the Chicago trade to include what we got for Versteeg from Philly, then there's an even bigger element of "wait and see" but value-wise we still made out like bandits. There isn't a GM out there that would have traded a first rounder for Stalberg and a couple of nobodies.
I actually sort of think the opposite. I think that there's much less wait and see if we're just looking at Versteeg for Paradis, DiDomenico and Stalberg. That was a good deal for the Leafs.
When it comes to sort of the whole package of Paradis, DiDomenico and Stalberg vs. Percy and Leivo then it's entirely wait and see. The only guy of the bunch in the NHL is Stalberg and he's young and unproven. 'If Percy/Leivo make the league and Paradis/DiDomenico don't that's a win but I think Paradis is a pretty good example of how the value of a late first round prospect is not a certainty.
CarltonTheBear said:Yeah, I mean I guess I agree that we're more likely to lose the trade if we include the package we received for Versteeg as opposed to just looking at the Chicago trade exclusively. A first rounder is more likely to bust than Versteeg is to. But considering we're comparing these assets to a guy who will most likely be a good 3rd liner at best, I think it'd be pretty difficult for us to flat out lose this trade in any sense.
Kin said:CarltonTheBear said:Yeah, if we're going to add the Versteeg to Philly trade in the discussion, then yeah it will be a few years before we can conclude who won that deal. But looking exclusively at the Stalberg to Chicago trade, I think it's definitely a win for us. Paradis and DiDomenico will both be lucky to make the NHL, and Stalberg could find himself out of it in a couple of years if he doesn't turn things around.
I don't know, if you can't declare a winner Philly/Toronto I don't think you can Toronto/Chicago either because it's the same principal. A low first round pick and a third aren't likely to make big NHL impacts even if Percy is widely regarded as a safe pick with a low ceiling.
Kin said:Pretty tough, after the spending frenzy we just saw, to say that a versatile 25 year old 20 goal scorer is overpaid at three million per.
Tigger said:Kin said:Pretty tough, after the spending frenzy we just saw, to say that a versatile 25 year old 20 goal scorer is overpaid at three million per.
I wouldn't say that was the case when Toronto traded for him and Armstrong was characterized as 'slightly' over paid at the time though now looks better some too, in spite of injuries... Coupled with a bad back VerIety's versatility relegates him to a third line role on a cup winning team and at that price he still seems like a bit of a luxury to me.