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Drew Doughty / Erik Karlsson / Oliver Ekman-Larsson

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/senators-erik-karlsson-want-win-ottawa/

Karlsson wants:
A) to get paid properly
B) to win
C) stay in Ottawa

I think he can, at most, get two of the three. I also think the BC pairing is impossible.
 
herman said:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/senators-erik-karlsson-want-win-ottawa/

Karlsson wants:
A) to get paid properly
B) to win
C) stay in Ottawa

I think he can, at most, get two of the three. I also think the BC pairing is impossible.
Click to expand...

It's one of the weird paradoxes where that whole article had the tone of his agent setting something up so people wouldn't be mad at him and yet the tone of it reads like someone saying they want every single present on their christmas list.

 
Nik the Trik said:
herman said:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/senators-erik-karlsson-want-win-ottawa/

Karlsson wants:
A) to get paid properly
B) to win
C) stay in Ottawa

I think he can, at most, get two of the three. I also think the BC pairing is impossible.
Click to expand...

It's one of the weird paradoxes where that whole article had the tone of his agent setting something up so people wouldn't be mad at him and yet the tone of it reads like someone saying they want every single present on their christmas list.
Click to expand...

I'm getting every present on my Christmas list.  Santa owes me.
 
Big dollar long term commitment to players on the door step of 30 years old, I dunno, just makes me nervous. 

This current group is sitting at 4th overall in the league 2 weeks before Christmas.  I know we all want them to win now, but I just don't think this team will be good enough or experienced enough for another couple years to win a cup.

I think with internal improvement, internal promotion, and the signing of maybe a tier B free agent dman or two, this team will be pretty good.

Having said that, if there is anyway possible Leafs could squeeze Doughty in under that cap, I would do it.
 
One of the things that I think is interesting about the whole Karlsson thing is that we still haven't seen a team win a cup that was primarily built after the 2012 lockout. The teams that have won cups since then were teams that added pieces and re-shaped rosters in the new environment then but chiefly it's been Chicago winning around Kane and Toews and Pittsburgh winning around Crosby and Malkin.

So on the one hand you hesitate to say Ottawa couldn't build themselves into a contender around Karlsson but on the other...I don't know what that team would look like. if they're perpetually going to be in tight against the cap does rebuilding even make sense if in order for it to work you have to hit a lottery or two and then win immediately before extensions kick in? Is that any sounder a plan than just tinkering with what they have and hope they get lucky?

Truth is I don't think anyone knows. I don't know there are meaningful lessons in repeatable team building beyond "Let's make the playoffs and roll the dice" anymore.
 
Nik the Trik said:
One of the things that I think is interesting about the whole Karlsson thing is that we still haven't seen a team win a cup that was primarily built after the 2012 lockout. The teams that have won cups since then were teams that added pieces and re-shaped rosters in the new environment then but chiefly it's been Chicago winning around Kane and Toews and Pittsburgh winning around Crosby and Malkin.

So on the one hand you hesitate to say Ottawa couldn't build themselves into a contender around Karlsson but on the other...I don't know what that team would look like. if they're perpetually going to be in tight against the cap does rebuilding even make sense if in order for it to work you have to hit a lottery or two and then win immediately before extensions kick in? Is that any sounder a plan than just tinkering with what they have and hope they get lucky?

Truth is I don't think anyone knows. I don't know there are meaningful lessons in repeatable team building beyond "Let's make the playoffs and roll the dice" anymore.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm with Nik on this.

Ever since guys started getting big bucks right out of their ELC, the window of building a championship team with guys on undervalued contracts seems to be pretty short.

The only guy left undervalued in Chicago is that old back-diving deal that Keith is on at $5.5m.  And of course, Pittsburgh has Crosby at $8.7m.

I think that's why some have suggested the Leafs go after it before Matthews and Marner get paid...Nylander is inevitable right now, but isn't exactly setting himself up for a big payday for his next deal, yet. 
 
Frank E said:
Nik the Trik said:
One of the things that I think is interesting about the whole Karlsson thing is that we still haven't seen a team win a cup that was primarily built after the 2012 lockout. The teams that have won cups since then were teams that added pieces and re-shaped rosters in the new environment then but chiefly it's been Chicago winning around Kane and Toews and Pittsburgh winning around Crosby and Malkin.

So on the one hand you hesitate to say Ottawa couldn't build themselves into a contender around Karlsson but on the other...I don't know what that team would look like. if they're perpetually going to be in tight against the cap does rebuilding even make sense if in order for it to work you have to hit a lottery or two and then win immediately before extensions kick in? Is that any sounder a plan than just tinkering with what they have and hope they get lucky?

Truth is I don't think anyone knows. I don't know there are meaningful lessons in repeatable team building beyond "Let's make the playoffs and roll the dice" anymore.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm with Nik on this.

Ever since guys started getting big bucks right out of their ELC, the window of building a championship team with guys on undervalued contracts seems to be pretty short.

The only guy left undervalued in Chicago is that old back-diving deal that Keith is on at $5.5m.  And of course, Pittsburgh has Crosby at $8.7m.

I think that's why some have suggested the Leafs go after it before Matthews and Marner get paid...Nylander is inevitable right now, but isn't exactly setting himself up for a big payday for his ndext deal, yet.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because there is a lot of parity, and for the most part it is really hard to make substantial changes to your roster outside of the draft.  So the premise of build your core through the draft and then add the complementary pieces through some other form probably still gives you the best probability of success, but because of that same parity, your probability is lower year in and year out.   
 
Frank E said:
Ever since guys started getting big bucks right out of their ELC, the window of building a championship team with guys on undervalued contracts seems to be pretty short.
Click to expand...

Maybe but with that said someone is going to have to win a cup every year and I don't know how teams are going to go from being bad enough to draft guys like Marner and Matthews to being good enough throughout the lineup to knock off a more veteran team with less spectacular top-end talent before those extensions kick in.

So in that context I really don't know what "going for it" means. If the end game is to just win a cup I don't know it makes more sense to invest heavily in one year vs. spacing it out. I don't know what urgency means in that context.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Frank E said:
Ever since guys started getting big bucks right out of their ELC, the window of building a championship team with guys on undervalued contracts seems to be pretty short.
Click to expand...

Maybe but with that said someone is going to have to win a cup every year and I don't know how teams are going to go from being bad enough to draft guys like Marner and Matthews to being good enough throughout the lineup to knock off a more veteran team with less spectacular top-end talent before those extensions kick in.

So in that context I really don't know what "going for it" means. If the end game is to just win a cup I don't know it makes more sense to invest heavily in one year vs. spacing it out. I don't know what urgency means in that context.
Click to expand...

Let me clarify a little...I think going for it in this context means that you might spend a little of your future HR capital on players that are short term rentals, to improve your depth, in order to give your team a better shot at a championship, at the time of the trade deadline.

Given the parity of the league these days, I think there's some luck involved in putting yourself into a higher ranking for the playoffs, to give yourself home-ice advantage.  If you're good enough, and lucky enough, to be in such a position, then maybe you spend some of that capital to address any depth issues that might make some marginal difference in attaining your goal of a championship in a given season.

I wouldn't spend as much as to put my team in a problematic HR position moving forward, but these types of acquisitions tend to cost futures, and so there is still some risk involved here.

This is all assuming that your end goal is to win a championship in a given year, and not to just remain competitive and hope that at some point over the lifespan of your competitive core, you win one.
 
My feeling is we need a XXL defensively responsible Dman who can eat minutes.  We have 3 offensively minded players in Reilly Gardiner Lilligren.  We need 3 defensively minded Dman with offensive savvy.  We have Zaitsev Hainsey then no one.  This spot is where I wish we would steal Parayko from St Louis.  The other possible guys for that role are Myers Hamilton and maybe our own Neilson
 
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-erik-karlsson-trade-rumours-ottawa-senators/

In the immediate aftermath of Karlsson?s comments, there was a lot of anger inside the organization. Owner Eugene Melnyk is always the flashpoint, but it went deeper. There was at least one tense meeting between the captain and team officials. In a conversation with Sportsnet?s Arash Madani last weekend in San Jose, the franchise cornerstone said his quotes were taken out of context.
Click to expand...

Melnyk definitely had this song on repeat in his office all week.
 
See, this is the thing I just never got about small market teams like Ottawa and their fans being pro-salary cap. All it did was provide an incentive for teams with a lot of money that were spending their money on free agency, which wasn't a typically successful team building strategy, to instead try to corner the market on scouting and player development, which was the one area small market teams could corner the market in.

Ultimately, I really think that being spurned by homegrown free agents, the emotional reaction to them leaving for more money in a bigger city, was a bigger deal than genuinely being competitive.
 
I confess to being guilty of wrong thinking on this issue a time or two myself but anyone else suddenly happy the Leafs are owned by a faceless, heartless conglomerate rather than one competitive billionaire?
 
Nik the Trik said:
I confess to being guilty of wrong thinking on this issue a time or two myself but anyone else suddenly happy the Leafs are owned by a faceless, heartless conglomerate rather than one competitive billionaire?
Click to expand...

Well, when that billionaire barely has any money left, then I'll take the faceless, heartless conglomerate (with plenty of money).
 
Coco-puffs said:
Nik the Trik said:
I confess to being guilty of wrong thinking on this issue a time or two myself but anyone else suddenly happy the Leafs are owned by a faceless, heartless conglomerate rather than one competitive billionaire?
Click to expand...



Well, when that billionaire barely has any money left, then I'll take the faceless, heartless conglomerate (with plenty of money).
Click to expand...

Harold Ballard was another Multi-Millionaire who really knew how to screw up a hockey franchise. I know I get roasted on this every time I bring it up but TFC just won the MLSCup in huge fashion. Leafs are now listed as contenders,  Raptors looking pretty good.  I think if only for TFC, Lewieke needs another shout out. 
Now lets bring the Jays and Argos into the fold and really build an atmosphere of winning.

The template of success seems to now be ingrained in MLSE franchises
 
Highlander said:
I know I get roasted on this every time I bring it up but TFC just won the MLSCup in huge fashion. Leafs are now listed as contenders,  Raptors looking pretty good.  I think if only for TFC, Lewieke needs another shout out. 
Click to expand...

Your obsession with giving Leiweke credit repeatedly instead of the people actually doing the heavy lifting is absolutely bizarre.
 
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