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CHL players serve notice...

T

Tigger

New member
 
Hard to argue it, really. Some CHL teams make a ton and it's tough to see how the players aren't employees. They should be making at least as much as someone working the counter at McDonald's.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
The thread title might be a bit misleading as apparently no player has any idea what the CHLPA is.
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...not that they'll admit to? Dunno, blame the trumpeter I guess.
 
It's hard to imagine this CHLPA ever gains much steam. Their players last very short amounts of time. They come in at the age of 15/16 and are gone in 3 or 4 years at most.

At 15/16 they see visions of lollipops and NHL dreams. They don't care what they're paid.

I agree that they should be getting something.....But if they do start receiving minimum wage, can the owners not cut the education funds, the room and board, etc;?
 
OldTimeHockey said:
I agree that they should be getting something.....But if they do start receiving minimum wage, can the owners not cut the education funds, the room and board, etc;?
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Sure. If this ever came to be, and it doesn't look right now like there's much to it, then whatever sort of deal got worked out would simply address the manner in which they were compensated and what they wanted to keep/change.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
OldTimeHockey said:
I agree that they should be getting something.....But if they do start receiving minimum wage, can the owners not cut the education funds, the room and board, etc;?
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Sure. If this ever came to be, and it doesn't look right now like there's much to it, then whatever sort of deal got worked out would simply address the manner in which they were compensated and what they wanted to keep/change.
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Well personally, if I was sending my kid out of town, I'd rather my 17 year old got free room and board, and an education fund, then a pay cheque. I know what I did with any money I made when I was 17...I don't want my kid, who may have a future in the sport, spending his money on all the mistakes I did.

Note: Yes this is a hope and a dream that my kid doesn't experiment. I realize how bloody unlikely it is.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Well personally, if I was sending my kid out of town, I'd rather my 17 year old got free room and board, and an education fund, then a pay cheque. I know what I did with any money I made when I was 17...I don't want my kid, who may have a future in the sport, spending his money on all the mistakes I did.
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But keep in mind that the "room and board" is largely in exchange for the fact that you're asking these kids to move so you can satisfy the league's desire for parity. If I were a parent, I'd think it insane that my 16 year old would have to move halfway across the province if he wanted to pursue hockey if there were Major Junior options in his hometown. Likewise, the "education fund" strikes me as compensation for sacrificing amateur status that could otherwise land them a NCAA scholarship to play hockey.

If the OHL's response to this is "Well, we'll pay you a wage but we'll require you to pay your own room and board and not give you money for school" I'd easily recommend that the kid go the NCAA route instead.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Well personally, if I was sending my kid out of town, I'd rather my 17 year old got free room and board, and an education fund, then a pay cheque. I know what I did with any money I made when I was 17...I don't want my kid, who may have a future in the sport, spending his money on all the mistakes I did.
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But keep in mind that the "room and board" is largely in exchange for the fact that you're asking these kids to move so you can satisfy the league's desire for parity. If I were a parent, I'd think it insane that my 16 year old would have to move halfway across the province if he wanted to pursue hockey if there were Major Junior options in his hometown. Likewise, the "education fund" strikes me as compensation for sacrificing amateur status that could otherwise land them a NCAA scholarship to play hockey.

If the OHL's response to this is "Well, we'll pay you a wage but we'll require you to pay your own room and board and not give you money for school" I'd easily recommend that the kid go the NCAA route instead.
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Can't argue with that, and if I was to ever have a child with the abilities, the NCAA would be the route I would push them towards, though my push may not amount to much.

The view that the CHL is the only way to the NHL has changed considerably in that people seem to be coming from the College avenue more and more each year. Now I'm not sure how much that view has changed in regards to how the kids themselves see it. I've been removed from the coaching ranks for a few years now and I'm not up to date with how bantam/midget aged players view each option.
 
All the CHLPA is trying to do is get them some basic rights.  I don't see how the CHL hasn't come into trouble with the law alot earlier seeing how they clearly violate minimum wage laws.  Even if you take the dollar value of the education fund and the room and board considering how many hours they put into the jobs; it is clearly less then the minimum wage.  I suspect that courts will agree with this and change the way the CHL operates.  As I said this should have happened earlier, but I guess this shows you have to fight for your rights.
 
Tigger said:
Can you smell what Laraque is cooking?
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I think what they are fighting for is right but they are going about it in a very sloppy and sometimes bizarre manner.

Some interesting points in this piece about it:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/2012/10/26/chl_chlpa_legal_action_lawsuit_threat_patrick_king/

Hockeycentral interviewed Laraque on Friday and it was just really really strange how he would talk around simple questions about what their structure was, why they won't provide the CHL clear and concise information about who they are beyond just him. 

He did not deny and provided no explanation as to why they had anonymous "first name only" people visiting players, asking them to sign on in support.  The fact that half the players in the league aren't 18 yet means they likely can't even be signing things like this without parental support. 

I can see David Branch's point when he says "I don't know who they are" when he is asked if he will be meeting with them.

It's just weird.
 
Corn Flake said:
Tigger said:
Can you smell what Laraque is cooking?
Click to expand...

I think what they are fighting for is right but they are going about it in a very sloppy and sometimes bizarre manner.

Some interesting points in this piece about it:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/2012/10/26/chl_chlpa_legal_action_lawsuit_threat_patrick_king/

Hockeycentral interviewed Laraque on Friday and it was just really really strange how he would talk around simple questions about what their structure was, why they won't provide the CHL clear and concise information about who they are beyond just him. 

He did not deny and provided no explanation as to why they had anonymous "first name only" people visiting players, asking them to sign on in support.  The fact that half the players in the league aren't 18 yet means they likely can't even be signing things like this without parental support. 

I can see David Branch's point when he says "I don't know who they are" when he is asked if he will be meeting with them.

It's just weird.
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Yeah that is the propaganda about it.  Every report I read uses language of how the CHLPA is mysterious and they are acting bizarrely.  Lets remember business owners advertise in the media, players don't.  So I raked that up to the media looking after where there bread is buttered.  Why does the players association have to disclose to the CHL. When the CHL owners like most business owners keeps two sets of books and only release the numbers that suite their purposes.
 
Rebel_1812 said:
Corn Flake said:
Tigger said:
Can you smell what Laraque is cooking?
Click to expand...

I think what they are fighting for is right but they are going about it in a very sloppy and sometimes bizarre manner.

Some interesting points in this piece about it:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/2012/10/26/chl_chlpa_legal_action_lawsuit_threat_patrick_king/

Hockeycentral interviewed Laraque on Friday and it was just really really strange how he would talk around simple questions about what their structure was, why they won't provide the CHL clear and concise information about who they are beyond just him. 

He did not deny and provided no explanation as to why they had anonymous "first name only" people visiting players, asking them to sign on in support.  The fact that half the players in the league aren't 18 yet means they likely can't even be signing things like this without parental support. 

I can see David Branch's point when he says "I don't know who they are" when he is asked if he will be meeting with them.

It's just weird.
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Yeah that is the propaganda about it.  Every report I read uses language of how the CHLPA is mysterious and they are acting bizarrely.  Lets remember business owners advertise in the media, players don't.  So I raked that up to the media looking after where there bread is buttered.  Why does the players association have to disclose to the CHL. When the CHL owners like most business owners keeps two sets of books and only release the numbers that suite their purposes.
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Isn't it funny that some people think the NHL is completely up front about earnings?
 
Rebel_1812 said:
Yeah that is the propaganda about it.  Every report I read uses language of how the CHLPA is mysterious and they are acting bizarrely.  Lets remember business owners advertise in the media, players don't.  So I raked that up to the media looking after where there bread is buttered.  Why does the players association have to disclose to the CHL. When the CHL owners like most business owners keeps two sets of books and only release the numbers that suite their purposes.
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They do have to establish some sort of legitimacy though. A good union is one that's transparent about who they're representing and what authority they have to do so.
 
If the CHLPA is successful, I wonder if there will be similar impact to the Junior A and/or B leagues across Canada. 
 
Nik V. Debs said:
Rebel_1812 said:
Yeah that is the propaganda about it.  Every report I read uses language of how the CHLPA is mysterious and they are acting bizarrely.  Lets remember business owners advertise in the media, players don't.  So I raked that up to the media looking after where there bread is buttered.  Why does the players association have to disclose to the CHL. When the CHL owners like most business owners keeps two sets of books and only release the numbers that suite their purposes.
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They do have to establish some sort of legitimacy though. A good union is one that's transparent about who they're representing and what authority they have to do so.
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And as of right now it is the CHL teams who are responsible for the safety and well being of these kids and help ensure they don't get hosed by some two-bit organization who are not run very well and are not doing much of a job to prove they aren't up to no good.  The teams and Branch have every right to be skeptical.

I know if it was my kid being approached by Laraque and his first-name-only pals, telling them to sign on the dotted line with very little explanation, structure or purpose defined, I would be telling my son to stay the hell away until they explain themselves and the team says they are ok.

If the CHLPA wanted to seem legit, they should be saying who they are, have a well-defined charter, clearly identifying who the people are in the organization and what they do, and be engaging parents as much as the players.
 
Corn Flake said:
If the CHLPA wanted to seem legit, they should be saying who they are, have a well-defined charter, clearly identifying who the people are in the organization and what they do, and be engaging parents as much as the players.
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I agree completely. I think there's a good argument to be made for a hypothetical CHLPA but the actual nuts and bolts of what's going on with the "organization" Laraques claims to be fronting strikes me as pretty fishy.
 
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