Author Topic: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020  (Read 12333 times)

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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #150 on: August 26, 2019, 09:55:37 AM »
6. Rasmus Sandin

In the absence of first-hand knowledge, people will tend towards looking up points. Sandin is good and smart and basically a steal at 29, but still needs refinement time.

There was a twitter poll the other day (made by a Leafs fan with a large Leafs fan audience) that asked if people would still pick Sandin over Veleno if there was a re-draft. 88% of respondents said they'd stick with Sandin. That's still something I wonder about. Veleno was arguably the best player in the Q this past season. Let's hope this one doesn't turn into another Dermott/Aho situation.

I voted Sandin... mostly because of organizational need.  Veleno very well may be the better prospect now and better player over his career.  He'd have to become Aho to make me regret it though (as long as Sandin becomes the top 4 guy we seem to all expect at this point). 

Offline Nik

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #151 on: August 26, 2019, 10:23:29 AM »

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.
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Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #152 on: August 26, 2019, 10:33:05 AM »
Was there much gnashing of teeth over picking Dermott instead of Aho? Aho didn't really blow up Liiga until after he was drafted.

The only thing I remember of Aho back then was that he was a Spider-Man meme with a Swedish defenseman.

None at all if I remember correctly. It just stung when Babcock or something said a couple years ago that they strongly considered taking Aho in that spot.

They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.
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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #153 on: August 26, 2019, 10:37:42 AM »

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

Yeah, Free Agency without a doubt hasn't been very helpful for attaining d-men.  The only scenario I can see whereby the Aho + D-man vs Tavares + Dermott works out (up until this point) is if the D-man in question is Jake Gardiner getting re-signed.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #154 on: August 26, 2019, 10:39:02 AM »
Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

I wouldn't really make that assumption. I'd imagine Aho would have mostly played LW with the Leafs and they still would have gone after Tavares. Maybe in this universe they won't feel as pressured to sign Marleau.

It'd certainly have created cap issues for us though after his ELC was over, but heck who knows what this team could have done last season with an elite left winger to play with Matthews, especially during Nylander's absence.

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #155 on: August 26, 2019, 10:43:18 AM »

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

Yeah, Free Agency without a doubt hasn't been very helpful for attaining d-men.  The only scenario I can see whereby the Aho + D-man vs Tavares + Dermott works out (up until this point) is if the D-man in question is Jake Gardiner getting re-signed.

I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #156 on: August 26, 2019, 10:53:44 AM »
I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.

I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man. I sort of think the Leafs would've missed out on Tavares without the Nylander + Marner combo.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:55:17 AM by herman »
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #157 on: August 26, 2019, 10:54:29 AM »
They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.

Yeah the 2015 draft was always a fun one to speculate about years after. Imagine this Leafs team with Werenski/Provarov + Aho instead of Marner + Dermott. Better? Worse? Who knows but fun to think about.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #158 on: August 26, 2019, 10:56:37 AM »
I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man.

Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Maybe it means no Muzzin. Maybe Kapanen and/or Johnsson get traded. But Tavares would still be here.

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #159 on: August 26, 2019, 11:03:07 AM »
They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.

Yeah the 2015 draft was always a fun one to speculate about years after. Imagine this Leafs team with Werenski/Provarov + Aho instead of Marner + Dermott. Better? Worse? Who knows but fun to think about.

I quite like our team at this stage, even if there are a few things I wish they had done/not done.
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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #160 on: August 26, 2019, 11:48:56 AM »
I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.

I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man. I sort of think the Leafs would've missed out on Tavares without the Nylander + Marner combo.

I'm fairly certain this started as a Sandin vs Veleno conversation.... and down the rabbit hole we've gone.  Its definitely August.   :P

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #161 on: August 26, 2019, 11:56:37 AM »
If you’ve got something better to do, I’m open to suggestions...  :P
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #162 on: August 26, 2019, 12:07:02 PM »
I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man.

Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Maybe it means no Muzzin. Maybe Kapanen and/or Johnsson get traded. But Tavares would still be here.

I think people are looking at it from Tavares's point of view.  He may not wanted to have come to Toronto if he didn't get to play with a winger like Marner.  Getting Aho instead of Dermot probably opens up options to them that they don't currently have.  They probably feel more comfortable moving someone like Nylander, when means that you may be able to bring in a D-man who is a little better than who Dermot is now.  So you still end up with a big 4 up front, but with one better d-man on the back end.  At least potentially, because you know, one decision doesn't usually happen in a vacuum.
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Offline Nik

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #163 on: August 26, 2019, 01:13:59 PM »
Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Just realistically, you couldn't have five forwards making 45-50 million of the cap. Maybe Tavares isn't the odd man out but someone would have to be.
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Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
« Reply #164 on: August 27, 2019, 08:39:55 AM »
5. Alexander Kerfoot

He just made the cut off.

The Devils drafted Kerfoot but he elected free agency and signed with Colorado. Will Butcher was drafted by Colorado but elected for free agency and signed with New Jersey.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:58:22 AM by herman »
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