Author Topic: Hunter Will Not Return Either  (Read 1744 times)

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Offline Zee

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 02:44:41 PM »
Now that the other 2 are out, I'm sure clarity will come in the next little while.  This will be the Dubas show, he'll get to call his first official press conference as Leafs GM to announce what he's doing with the front office.  I can already see a tear of joy running down Shanahan's face..."there's my big boy all grown up"

My question there isn't so much about the specifics of the Leafs situation as it is a sort of general thinking about what would be the ideal structure  for a front office, now that there's clarity at the top.

That I don't know.  I'm sure there are multiple ways to run your organization and no one approach is 100% the right way to go.  Maybe one guy holds multiple titles as you've laid out, maybe they hire a guy for each role?  Interesting times in Leafs land that's for sure.  I'm excited to see how Dubas handles things now that he's the GM and doesn't have Lou or Hunter peering over his shoulder.

Online herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2018, 02:47:30 PM »
Amateur Scouting
Pro Scouting
Analytics
Cap Management
Minor League Development(Marlies GM)

These might be adjunct to the Minor League Development in your list, but I think they deserve their own space as they reach across all tiers:
Sports Science (medical, physical, nutritional, mental well-being and optimization), currently overseen by Jeremy Bettle
Player Development (Scott Pellerin, Stephan Robidas, Jack Han + consultants Darryl Belfry, Barb Underhill, Mike Ellis)

Depending on the delineation between GM and President, there's also Hockey Ops (game logistics, travel, equipment, etc.), Marketing (social and blog/print media relations, community outreach).

Online herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2018, 02:59:18 PM »
I think Pridham and Metcalf (or whichever R&D guy should be the corporate interface) should get bumped to Director or AGM level. One or two more for managing either the Dev/Marlies dept or the Scouting dept depending on which one Dubas wants to continue to oversee personally if any.

President: Shanahan
GM: Dubas
AGM/Director: Cap Management
AGM/Director: Research & Development
AGM/Director: Amateur & Pro Scouting
AGM/Director: Player Development/Marlies GM
Director: Sports Science

Cap and R&D could be folded into a single portfolio as they're both number crunching in methodology and efficiency finding in purpose. Titles between AGM/director would really depend on the level the person coming in should be paid at and their growth curve.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM »
These might be adjunct to the Minor League Development in your list, but I think they deserve their own space as they reach across all tiers:
Sports Science (medical, physical, nutritional, mental well-being and optimization), currently overseen by Jeremy Bettle
Player Development (Scott Pellerin, Stephan Robidas, Jack Han + consultants Darryl Belfry, Barb Underhill, Mike Ellis)

Depending on the delineation between GM and President, there's also Hockey Ops (game logistics, travel, equipment, etc.), Marketing (social and blog/print media relations, community outreach).

Fair enough. They do have guys listed, as you mention, as directors of Player Development and Team Operations and the rest seems outside of the hockey ops side of things.

I guess I'm just wondering how many vacancies the Leafs actually have and how many guys would just be "another voice in the room can't hurt" sort of hires.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Online herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2018, 03:11:16 PM »
I guess I'm just wondering how many vacancies the Leafs actually have and how many guys would just be "another voice in the room can't hurt" sort of hires.

A Marlies/ECHL overseer GM is probably the bare essential hire in my mind, given how deep Dubas wants our prospect pipeline to go and the day-to-day grind of managing a complete team. Amateur/Pro Scouting could conceivably be funneled into and distilled by the Cap/R&D team for executive review (Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, Marlies GM) as they're essentially data collectors, and can be steered accordingly by data. Complementing the R&D/scouting guys with (even) more video resources (like Batman level) would help get the message across to Babcock.

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2018, 12:30:38 PM »

Offline Zee

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2018, 01:38:57 PM »

That hilarious.  I love how he pointed out that Simmons trashed the trading down in the 2015 draft that got them Dermott, because Hunter wanted Konecny, and it was all Dubas's fault.  Now that Dermott has proven to be really good, it was a joint Dubas/Hunter decision.  Simmons is such a hack.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2018, 07:39:31 PM »
Hunter seemed to instantly turn this around in the drafting area and I think Dubas on the development side.

The Leafs drafting under Hunter really hasn't been anything special. Or at the very least, it's really too early to say anything about it one way or another. There have been some good picks, there have been some questionable picks. The belief that he's some sort of uber-scouting genius is really unearned at this point.

Hmmm.  This kind of smacks of revisionism to me.  Wasn't Hunter regarded as one of the best talent scouts in the biz?

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 07:46:56 PM »
Hmmm.  This kind of smacks of revisionism to me.  Wasn't Hunter regarded as one of the best talent scouts in the biz?

What part is "revisionism"? You're more than welcome to look back at my posts from the 2016 draft and find that I critiqued Hunter about them just as much as I am now. Fact is at this point in time, looking at the Leafs drafts while Hunter was in charge, they don't stand out as being anywhere even close to elite.

I'm not bringing Hunter's work as a London Knight into this, as that can be construed a number of different ways (yes he built London into a powerhouse, but they also ended up having a crazy advantage over every other OHL team that helped them). His draft selections with the Leafs are average at best at this moment.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 08:02:37 PM »
Hmmm.  This kind of smacks of revisionism to me.  Wasn't Hunter regarded as one of the best talent scouts in the biz?

Not to point to my sig again but reputations like that are funny things. Without any real experience in amateur scouting in a NHL sense he'd built that reputation and its payoff has been, as CTB points out, kind of uneven.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 08:07:00 PM »
Steve Simmons called Hunter a "Hall of Fame-quality scout" the other day. This is after running three NHL drafts, none of which can even be fully and properly judged. That's like me calling William Nylander a Hall of Fame-quality player right now.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 08:19:09 PM »
I'd like to point out that Kyle Dubas has more experience as a NHL executive than Mark Hunter does.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 08:20:21 PM »
Steve Simmons called Hunter a "Hall of Fame-quality scout" the other day. This is after running three NHL drafts, none of which can even be fully and properly judged. That's like me calling William Nylander a Hall of Fame-quality player right now.

It's almost, almost, like there's a symbiotic relationship between some NHL execs and members of the Press, wherein "insider" information is passed along and in return, they get favourable press.

I know, it's too crazy to even imagine but...what if?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Online herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2018, 09:02:42 PM »

This was when Shanahan/Dubas announced the hiring of Cam Charron and Darryl Metcalf and Rob Pettapiece to create the R&D department.


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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 10:08:58 PM »

This was when Shanahan/Dubas announced the hiring of Cam Charron and Darryl Metcalf and Rob Pettapiece to create the R&D department.

It's still funny to me that he thought this was a burn on the bloggers.

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 10:08:58 PM »