Author Topic: Hunter Will Not Return Either  (Read 1843 times)

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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 10:12:16 AM »
What if he goes with Lou to the Islanders?  They axe Garth Snow, Hunter becomes GM and Lou is director of hockey ops?

I was going to make a joke about how Dubas would trade them Zaitsev, Martin, and McElhinney but then I realized that he might actually be able to pull that off.

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 10:12:16 AM »

Offline Zee

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2018, 10:13:00 AM »
What if he goes with Lou to the Islanders?  They axe Garth Snow, Hunter becomes GM and Lou is director of hockey ops?

I was going to make a joke about how Dubas would trade them Zaitsev, Martin, and McElhinney but then I realized that he might actually be able to pull that off.

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Offline lamajama

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2018, 11:56:10 AM »
The one pretty consistent issue the Leafs have had since the mid 70s (the era of Sittler/McDonald/Williams/Salming/Turnbull et al) is their drafting (when they kept their picks and most notably hitting on later rounds) and certainly the development of these picks. Hunter seemed to instantly turn this around in the drafting area and I think Dubas on the development side. But you can't develop a player without drafting the right talent.

I know Hunter was not the only person in the scouting side but I had a pretty high confidence level in his ability.

It's a sh**ty deal for the Leafs and I hope that Shanahan knows what he has done.

I also hope I'm underestimating Dubas' contribution to what has happened the last 3 years but at least on the drafting side
but I don't think I am. 
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Offline herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2018, 11:56:55 AM »

Offline lc9

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2018, 11:59:25 AM »
I think these moves have been tremendous.  Likely gone are the days of players like Polak and Martin.  Dubas knows the game is changing.  Lou didn’t appreciate it fully, and he kept feeding Babcock players that shouldn’t have been on the ice.  Fully on board with Dubas as the man.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2018, 12:00:32 PM »
Hunter seemed to instantly turn this around in the drafting area and I think Dubas on the development side.

The Leafs drafting under Hunter really hasn't been anything special. Or at the very least, it's really too early to say anything about it one way or another. There have been some good picks, there have been some questionable picks. The belief that he's some sort of uber-scouting genius is really unearned at this point.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2018, 12:02:11 PM »

"Thanks, but we've got this covered... *Dubas strokes his MacBook lovingly*"

Offline Highlander

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2018, 12:04:09 PM »
While I think Mark Hunter is top notch, I also believe that the team behind him is still in place and the plan for this years picks and options are completely laid out.  I also have faith that Shanahan and Dubas will bring in an excellent replacement or advance from within that existing team. I do not know Hunters motivations but seemed to be more interested hunting talent at rinks around the world than sitting at a desk.
In any case "thank you" Mark and all the best
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2018, 12:12:44 PM »
Drafting for talent is where science (data) and art (analysis) meet.

I think the very positive differences these past few years have demonstrated compared to previous Leafs regimes is as follows:

Drafting via quantity: this is controllable -- more picks = more opportunities to pick right. Each draft year has a significant talent drop-off, usually around the 21st pick, followed by an even more significant drop-off after round 3. So it's better to take a shotgun approach if you can snag multiple picks in the same projected talent tier than to try to snipe the perfect player, or even worse, spend assets to move up but not into a different echelon (Tyler Biggs!).

Development: this is controllable -- invest skills growth into your assets to maximize their performance. A lot of hockey counting stats are largely functions of opportunity, so the more opportunity you can provide to your picks, the more likely they turn out.

These two things are Dubas initiatives. Where some GMs with scouting backgrounds probably falter is that they bet on their own capabilities (as they should) and/or play it safe just to say they got an 'NHL player' out of it (Gauthier, maybe!).

Offline Frank E

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2018, 12:18:35 PM »
I think we all saw this coming.

Getting the front office sorted out before free agency was the reason that I thought the GM decision needed to be made quickly, and I'm glad Shanahan got moving quickly on it...though I imagine that his mind was made up from the get go.

I hope they can add some quality people in the short term here.

Offline herman

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2018, 12:30:37 PM »
I will also add that Dubas has been adding to the prospect pipeline (not without Hunter and the scouts' input, mind you) outside of the draft quite frequently.

Trevor Moore, Justin Holl, Mason Marchment have all been standout player on the Marlies and we didn't get them through the draft, so it's not like Dubas has no eye for players. If anything, he has no compunctions about dipping into the lesser traveled avenues and overlooked options and outlining a development plan for them and draftees alike.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2018, 12:56:13 PM »
I wonder if Dubas might dip into the Soo’s front office and hire someone alongside another more experienced guy like Ron Francis. 

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2018, 02:25:54 PM »

So what seems lost in all of this "Will the Leafs hire X to replace Y" stuff is that there doesn't really seem to be a specific constant of how you'd want a front office set up. I think we can all agree you want a smart GM who is ultimately making your trade calls and deciding on draft picks. But then, below them, what roles are really necessary to be filled? My guess is you'd ideally want five guys in sort of chief deputy roles? Effectively department heads covering:

Amateur Scouting
Pro Scouting
Analytics
Cap Management
Minor League Development(Marlies GM)

My guess is that Dubas, under Lamoriello, was effectively doing jobs #3 and 5 up there while getting a crash course in the rest of it.

Meanwhile, they still have Pridham for #4 and they still have most of their scouting staff. Darryl Metcalf is listed as the director of their analytics department and I'm guessing he'd have a good working relationship with Dubas.

So is the discussion now effectively A) Do they need to bring in someone new for jobs #1 and #2 or can they promote form within and B) Who is going to run the Marlies?  Or am I missing another area of work that would require an additional AGM?
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Offline Zee

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2018, 02:31:20 PM »

So what seems lost in all of this "Will the Leafs hire X to replace Y" stuff is that there doesn't really seem to be a specific constant of how you'd want a front office set up. I think we can all agree you want a smart GM who is ultimately making your trade calls and deciding on draft picks. But then, below them, what roles are really necessary to be filled? My guess is you'd ideally want five guys in sort of chief deputy roles? Effectively department heads covering:

Amateur Scouting
Pro Scouting
Analytics
Cap Management
Minor League Development(Marlies GM)

My guess is that Dubas, under Lamoriello, was effectively doing jobs #3 and 5 up there while getting a crash course in the rest of it.

Meanwhile, they still have Pridham for #4 and they still have most of their scouting staff. Darryl Metcalf is listed as the director of their analytics department and I'm guessing he'd have a good working relationship with Dubas.

So is the discussion now effectively A) Do they need to bring in someone new for jobs #1 and #2 or can they promote form within and B) Who is going to run the Marlies?  Or am I missing another area of work that would require an additional AGM?

Now that the other 2 are out, I'm sure clarity will come in the next little while.  This will be the Dubas show, he'll get to call his first official press conference as Leafs GM to announce what he's doing with the front office.  I can already see a tear of joy running down Shanahan's face..."there's my big boy all grown up"

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2018, 02:36:18 PM »
Now that the other 2 are out, I'm sure clarity will come in the next little while.  This will be the Dubas show, he'll get to call his first official press conference as Leafs GM to announce what he's doing with the front office.  I can already see a tear of joy running down Shanahan's face..."there's my big boy all grown up"

My question there isn't so much about the specifics of the Leafs situation as it is a sort of general thinking about what would be the ideal structure  for a front office, now that there's clarity at the top.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

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Re: Hunter Will Not Return Either
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2018, 02:36:18 PM »