Poll

Who will captain the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2019?

Auston Matthews
20 (62.5%)
John Tavares
3 (9.4%)
Morgan Rielly
5 (15.6%)
Mitch Marner
0 (0%)
No one
4 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion  (Read 26987 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25778
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #270 on: May 20, 2019, 11:29:49 AM »
Doesn't all this boil down to two different senses of "market value".

Yes. One is what the term actually means. What something would likely sell for if it were available to bidders. Hockey players aren't an interchangeable commodity.

In the fine art market, somebody just paid $90M for a rabbit sculpture the other day.  That doesn't mean my play-doh Bugs Bunny is suddenly worth $90M.  It doesn't even mean that it's suddenly worth $1 instead of 10 cents.

What it would mean is that works by the same artist would likely increase in value. Same with works by similar artists or of a similar style. Likewise, if someone like Marner gets 11.5 million it would raise what other wingers might get on the market.

If your point is that art buyers, perhaps similarly to sports team owners, sometimes spend more money than you might think is reasonable on unique things...I mean, yeah? Welcome to the last 50 years, I suppose.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

TMLfans.ca

Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #270 on: May 20, 2019, 11:29:49 AM »

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5873
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #271 on: May 20, 2019, 11:39:15 AM »
Make one wonder what is going to happen when 4 players take up to 50% of your cap, not just on a few teams but on all 32 teams.. Isn't it time to introduce a luxury tax, like the NBA?
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25778
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #272 on: May 20, 2019, 11:49:24 AM »
Make one wonder what is going to happen when 4 players take up to 50% of your cap, not just on a few teams but on all 32 teams.. Isn't it time to introduce a luxury tax, like the NBA?

In lieu of the hard cap? It's a lovely idea that would make way more sense but the owners seem pretty committed to not seeing alternatives. 
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Heroic Shrimp

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2904
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #273 on: May 20, 2019, 11:53:37 AM »
Worst part for him is he might have to move to New York or Los Angeles or Montreal or wherever to spend his millions.

Arguably, the worst part for him may be not so much changing teams and cities but rather signing a contract to play for a team that, in his heart, isn't the team he actually wants to play for.  Only he knows how strong a motivator that truly is for him, and obviously he's not going to share it with us or with Leaf management.
Supersize my Freedom Fries

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 8813
  • Gender: Female
  • TORONTO RAPTORS 2019 NBA CHAMPIONS!
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #274 on: May 20, 2019, 12:07:29 PM »
Make one wonder what is going to happen when 4 players take up to 50% of your cap, not just on a few teams but on all 32 teams.. Isn't it time to introduce a luxury tax, like the NBA?


The trouble with the luxury tax a la NBA would be the potential to create ‘super teams’.  The Leafs would definitely benefit here.

The problem with that is what of the small market teams?  Unless of course there is some sort of revenue-sharing.

Also, it may, by creating these super teams, thereby prevent smaller market teams (such as this year’s diverse crop of playoff representatives the non-traditional large markets) from competing.  It’s doubtful the NHL’s Board of Governors views a luxury tax with eagerness.

Parity aside, it would inject a certain excitability for both fans and teams as players would have more freedom of movement, etc. and things would become a little more unpredictable. 

It may be time to shake things up.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:13:53 PM by hockeyfan1 »

Online bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 20762
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #275 on: May 20, 2019, 12:22:17 PM »
In lieu of the hard cap? It's a lovely idea that would make way more sense but the owners seem pretty committed to not seeing alternatives.

Or even with a hard cap. For example, having a soft cap at $75M, and a luxury tax on everything up to a hard cap of $100M. That would help alleviate some of the worries of a “super team” (as unrealistic and unreasonable a fear as it in a sport like hockey where teams require more depth), while allowing richer teams some opportunity to flex their financial muscle.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5873
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #276 on: May 20, 2019, 12:57:26 PM »
There were many years when the Yankees outspent their competition by huge margins and did not win.
Seems the same thing happened to several NHL teams before the Cap era.
 
I just can't fathom the dichotomy of 4 players taking up half or more of the pie. It will force a lot of players with a lot of talent either off teams or having to settle for a lot less than market value because other teams can't afford to pay them either.
 
I am thinking Johnsson and to some extent Kapanen here.
 
If every team starts spending 50% plus on 4 players, how are Johnsson or Kapi going to move for bigger dollars.  Sort of like the rich getting richer and the poor not getting as rich.

Perhaps a look at the MLS solution where you have 3 or 4 players marked as exempt??  Not sure of the system but the NHL's is looking set to being broken when the inevitable happens.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25778
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #277 on: May 20, 2019, 01:03:47 PM »
I just can't fathom the dichotomy of 4 players taking up half or more of the pie. It will force a lot of players with a lot of talent either off teams or having to settle for a lot less than market value because other teams can't afford to pay them either.

Quite literally, if teams pay their top players more and middle-tier players less that is the market deciding the middle-tier players value.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5873
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #278 on: May 20, 2019, 01:05:37 PM »
I just can't fathom the dichotomy of 4 players taking up half or more of the pie. It will force a lot of players with a lot of talent either off teams or having to settle for a lot less than market value because other teams can't afford to pay them either.

Quite literally, if teams pay their top players more and middle-tier players less that is the market deciding the middle-tier players value.
Agreed Nik, no problem with this at all. In some ways this may help us keep players such as Johnsson and Kappi in the home court as no one else will be able to afford them either.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5873
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #279 on: May 20, 2019, 01:07:04 PM »
Bob McKenzie saying Leafs are bringing back Hainsey on a one year deal.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24505
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #280 on: May 20, 2019, 01:28:30 PM »
Bob McKenzie saying Leafs are bringing back Hainsey on a one year deal.

Unless I'm mistaken, he never said this. He just raised the possibility of the Leafs trying to bring him back on a cheap deal.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25778
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #281 on: May 20, 2019, 01:53:23 PM »

Also, just to be clear, the idea of every single team having 4 guys earning 50%(or more) of the cap is not a real possibility. That is the modern equivalent of teams having 4 guys earning 10 million per.

In order for there to be 4 of those guys per team,  there'd need to be 128 guys leaguewide of that ability. Right now there are 16 guys in the entire league with cap hits of even 9 million or more. Alex Goligoski, at 5.475 per, is at 131st in the league.

There simply aren't that many guys to go around. The Leafs are extremely fortunate to have three of them.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline jdh1

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #282 on: May 20, 2019, 08:34:47 PM »
  I,m wondering if the Leafs have to part with some major pieces.I can,t see this working out to a serious cup contender as it appears right now.

For example if Marner gets a big offer from another club.Maybe they have to get their 4 first rounders and move on.Use that room to get some defence and a cheaper wingers.  Without him they would still have their 3 main centers to build the team around.


How about if one of the teams doing the offer-sheeting happens to be this one:

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/hickey-on-hockey-5

  That would be something if it was Montreal. There could be a sleeper team or two that might give a big offer.  The deal with Marner needs to be done sooner than later  to bring some clarity in this off season.

Offline princedpw

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2194
    • View Profile
Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #283 on: May 21, 2019, 02:49:49 AM »
I don’t think Marner is an offer sheet threat because it is too difficult to contend for a significant period of time without your next 4 first round picks and I think the leafs would match any offer that comes in lower than that.

But if the Marner negotiations drag out, offer sheets to Kapanen and Johnsson make a ton of sense. Both guys are currently better than 90% of the 2nd round picks will be in 5 years.  So I think many teams have the cap space and the picks to improve via an offer that improves the team now and in the future.

Basically, it would be really nice if Rantanen and the other RFAs sign first to further help narrow the potential price range for Marner.  I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them really want to go first though.

It will be interesting to see what the leafs do at the draft.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see one of Johnsson or Kapanen traded there.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 16785
    • View Profile
2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #284 on: May 21, 2019, 09:43:28 AM »
Yeah I hadn't thought of that. Offload Kappi or Mango + something and recoup a first.  Sort of a proactive self- offer- sheeting.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 09:44:59 AM by Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate »

TMLfans.ca

2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #284 on: May 21, 2019, 09:43:28 AM »