Author Topic: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock  (Read 4193 times)

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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2019, 05:48:54 PM »
Babs isn't getting the can tied to him and I don't see the core going anywhere. You don't trade from weakness. I think Dubas, Shanny and Babs have a nice chat about what they thought he should have done. I also think Dubas will take more of Babs' favs away like he did last year. I say Babs gets one more shot at this group.


I have no faith that Babcock will learn anything from this failure. I can see us 12 months from now complaining again now Babcock kept rolling 4 lines while down in the 3rd period.   Connor Brown baby, I know he can score big goals because he scored against Pittsburgh to get us into the playoffs 4 years ago!
Sadly, I can see the same thing. If Dubas and company don't think Babs will adjust, then he needs to go. Pretty simple.

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2019, 05:48:54 PM »

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2019, 06:26:07 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
“How many people from Ontario play in the National Hockey League? Once we make it safe, they’re coming home. Mark my words, they’ll be coming.”
~ Mike Bacock, in an open letter to Steven Stamkos Drew Doughty John Tavares

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2019, 06:46:50 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Online Rob

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2019, 07:00:07 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Why does even have to come to that?  Mike isn't a 2 year old where you have to take away his toys.  Why can't Dubas sit down with Mike and say, "Look Mike, we went out in the summer and signed a legit 1st line player in John Tavares, who scored almost 50 goals and we are paying him $11 million dollars a year. We also have Matthews, who scored a bunch, Mitch Marner who scored a bunch". 

But no, Babcock has Marleau out there who scored all of 16 goals all year, and Matthews played 18 minutes last night.  It's insanity. 

Then when questioned last night about Marleau's deployment, he throws a hissy fit and ends the press conference.  How is he going to react to Dubas questioning his coaching decisions? 

Offline BermudaBudsFan

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2019, 07:42:48 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Why does even have to come to that?  Mike isn't a 2 year old where you have to take away his toys.  Why can't Dubas sit down with Mike and say, "Look Mike, we went out in the summer and signed a legit 1st line player in John Tavares, who scored almost 50 goals and we are paying him $11 million dollars a year. We also have Matthews, who scored a bunch, Mitch Marner who scored a bunch". 

But no, Babcock has Marleau out there who scored all of 16 goals all year, and Matthews played 18 minutes last night.  It's insanity. 

Then when questioned last night about Marleau's deployment, he throws a hissy fit and ends the press conference.  How is he going to react to Dubas questioning his coaching decisions?
There is simply too much at stake.  It’s the best talent in years, maybe more. The window is limited.  If Babcock doesn’t give you the best chance, he should be gone.  It may also be Dubas’ career if doesn’t work, but he has to take the chance.

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2019, 08:05:50 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Why does even have to come to that?  Mike isn't a 2 year old where you have to take away his toys.  Why can't Dubas sit down with Mike and say, "Look Mike, we went out in the summer and signed a legit 1st line player in John Tavares, who scored almost 50 goals and we are paying him $11 million dollars a year. We also have Matthews, who scored a bunch, Mitch Marner who scored a bunch". 

But no, Babcock has Marleau out there who scored all of 16 goals all year, and Matthews played 18 minutes last night.  It's insanity. 

Then when questioned last night about Marleau's deployment, he throws a hissy fit and ends the press conference.  How is he going to react to Dubas questioning his coaching decisions?

I thought it was interesting that Matthews, Tavares and Marner all took the exact same number of shifts in game 7. Apparently Matthews kept his shorter.
“How many people from Ontario play in the National Hockey League? Once we make it safe, they’re coming home. Mark my words, they’ll be coming.”
~ Mike Bacock, in an open letter to Steven Stamkos Drew Doughty John Tavares

Offline Frank E

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2019, 09:12:30 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Why does even have to come to that?  Mike isn't a 2 year old where you have to take away his toys.  Why can't Dubas sit down with Mike and say, "Look Mike, we went out in the summer and signed a legit 1st line player in John Tavares, who scored almost 50 goals and we are paying him $11 million dollars a year. We also have Matthews, who scored a bunch, Mitch Marner who scored a bunch". 

But no, Babcock has Marleau out there who scored all of 16 goals all year, and Matthews played 18 minutes last night.  It's insanity. 

Then when questioned last night about Marleau's deployment, he throws a hissy fit and ends the press conference.  How is he going to react to Dubas questioning his coaching decisions?

I thought it was interesting that Matthews, Tavares and Marner all took the exact same number of shifts in game 7. Apparently Matthews kept his shorter.

Is this true?  Did Matthews have as many shifts as those guys, but just went off sooner?

If that's the case, that's going to throw a big stick in the wheel of most of the posting complaining about Matthews' ice time management last night.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2019, 11:09:42 PM »
I'm upset like everyone else, but Babcock is not going anywhere. Back-to-back 100+ point seasons, 3 straight years in the playoffs, and multiple team and individual records broken (a sign of growth?). All that with what a lot of us argued were a bunch of rusty mufflers on defence. Dubas needs to take away Hainsey, Zaitsev and Marleau, and hopefully sign a backup that can be trusted with more games. That would be a good start.
We all believe Babs isn't going anywhere but we all know his line management or whatever you call it was horrible in game 7 and most of the year. Like I said, I think they sit down and talk it out and Babs will get 1 more shot at it. If he doesn't improve everything he can control I don't think Dubas will hesitate to dump him.
As for Zaitsev and Marleau, while we hope Dubas can shed these contracts it may be difficult. We can thank Lou for those and I won't hold them against Dubas.

Why does even have to come to that?  Mike isn't a 2 year old where you have to take away his toys.  Why can't Dubas sit down with Mike and say, "Look Mike, we went out in the summer and signed a legit 1st line player in John Tavares, who scored almost 50 goals and we are paying him $11 million dollars a year. We also have Matthews, who scored a bunch, Mitch Marner who scored a bunch". 

But no, Babcock has Marleau out there who scored all of 16 goals all year, and Matthews played 18 minutes last night.  It's insanity. 

Then when questioned last night about Marleau's deployment, he throws a hissy fit and ends the press conference.  How is he going to react to Dubas questioning his coaching decisions?

I thought it was interesting that Matthews, Tavares and Marner all took the exact same number of shifts in game 7. Apparently Matthews kept his shorter.

Is this true?  Did Matthews have as many shifts as those guys, but just went off sooner?

If that's the case, that's going to throw a big stick in the wheel of most of the posting complaining about Matthews' ice time management last night.
It's true and no it won't. Why would it? 2:19 of ice over 27 shifts that JT had, Matthews had 26, works out to 5 seconds a shift. We also don't know when Babs changed the line or Matthews came off himself. All you need to know is this. Even at JT's number of 21:19, that's still not enough for the 2nd leading goal scorer in the playoffs in an elimination game. Did you see Matthews getting out with the 4th line? How about with Willy? Babs did nothing to try and get him and JT more ice and that's unacceptable. Goat shouldn't have seen the ice in the 3rd. Babs should have been running Matthews, Tavares, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Matthews, Tavares etc. Add in the fact that he played Marleau over Willy with the goalie pulled. You know Marleau, the guy who had 8 total shots in 7 games. I mean c'mon. Elliot Friedman I think pointed it out. Matthews played a whopping 4 mins of the first 14 in the 3rd period. That again is unacceptable. Time for Dubas to take away Mike's toys again.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2019, 11:50:52 PM »
Dubas is running the show, he's in charge of the coach.  He had the moxie to lure Tavares.  I assume he has the cajones to sit down with Mike and tell him where he found his coaching lacking, in season and in the playoffs.  It's standard performance review stuff.  And Babcock should be able to offer whatever critique he may have of Dubas.  But Dubas is his boss, not the other way round.

And if you're Dubas you don't say to Babcock, "I want you to play Matthews x minutes a night."  That's the coach's decision.  But you can say, "I want to see a system out there that results in 34/91/16/29 with x% TOI/60 -- you figure out how to make it happen."  You can say, "I want to see us in the top X in the league on the PP, and the top Y in the PK -- you figure out how to make it happen."  In other words, you, Dubas, the boss, you set some parameters and let the coach get there.  And if he doesn't, then you decide if it's time to move on.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2019, 12:37:46 AM »
Dubas is running the show, he's in charge of the coach.  He had the moxie to lure Tavares.  I assume he has the cajones to sit down with Mike and tell him where he found his coaching lacking, in season and in the playoffs.  It's standard performance review stuff.  And Babcock should be able to offer whatever critique he may have of Dubas.  But Dubas is his boss, not the other way round.

And if you're Dubas you don't say to Babcock, "I want you to play Matthews x minutes a night."  That's the coach's decision.  But you can say, "I want to see a system out there that results in 34/91/16/29 with x% TOI/60 -- you figure out how to make it happen."  You can say, "I want to see us in the top X in the league on the PP, and the top Y in the PK -- you figure out how to make it happen."  In other words, you, Dubas, the boss, you set some parameters and let the coach get there.  And if he doesn't, then you decide if it's time to move on.
Agree. Dubas is still going to take his toys away tho me thinks lol.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2019, 02:21:40 AM »
In some way, the Leafs and Babcock’s coaching (decision-making re: season & playoffs) can be termed as predictable. 

Whereas the Bruins strategized, analyzed, (according to Boston’s Bergeron who mentioned about picking up the little things, the tendencies & ‘weaknesses’ of those you’re playing against), as the series wore on  especially in Games 6 & 7.  If anything, Boston made the changes that made the odds work in their favour, while the Leafs remained static (hence predictable).

It’s doubtful Dubas will fire Babs.  The assistant staff will most likely undergo change.  Hopefully, with a stronger & better support system in place — some roster changes namely to strengthen the defence and add even more fluidity in the offensive category, next year, expectations will again rise but this time the Leafs should win a round and advance.

No one is saying the team needs to win the Cup so soon, but at least in defeating Boston this playoff year would have been seen as more of a confidence booster, and in getting that mental monkey off their backs, so to speak.  No one out there (media/hockey writers, etc.) chose the Leafs to come up winners but as we’ve all seen, this year’s NHL playoffs results have been nothing short of unexpected.   It would have been nice if Toronto could have been there too.

We’ll need to wait ‘till next year. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 02:23:42 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Online herman

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2019, 10:04:20 AM »
This was a good read.
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/04/24/this-years-game-7-was-mike-babcocks-tipping-point/

Quote
It really felt like Babcock, at a certain point had decided that he’d rather risk losing his way than try winning a different way.

If he's willing to a) see that his current way needs an update and b) follow through with adapting, then I still think he can accomplish a lot with the Leafs. Like really good players coming up through junior who've never had to play defense before because no one could stop them, at some point, you hit a ceiling and you either wash out or adapt to thrive.

Why hasn't he already changed? Success is a bit of a blinder, yeah?

If I'm Dubas, when I sit down with the coaching staff, that's the exact conversation I'm having. You guys had a good regular season with reasonable improvement given the circumstances; the next level is going to require not-too significant adjustment.

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths. The team is strong enough in talent now that you can use the first half to build up your bench and give your vets additional recovery time (screw their pride). This is an easy fix.

We got killed on predictability (again). Players are smart and can handle more than two routes and breakout plays. Let your skill be creative. The horses are already in the stable, so this is an easy enough fix.

Balanced attack and ice time in the regular season is great to keep your workhorses fresh. In crunch time, accordion the bench and stack the percentages in your favour with your best players. Easy fix. you love to win, Babcock? Then play to win, not to not-lose.

Online Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2019, 11:52:21 AM »
Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2019, 11:59:44 AM »
This was a good read.
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/04/24/this-years-game-7-was-mike-babcocks-tipping-point/

Quote
It really felt like Babcock, at a certain point had decided that he’d rather risk losing his way than try winning a different way.

If he's willing to a) see that his current way needs an update and b) follow through with adapting, then I still think he can accomplish a lot with the Leafs. Like really good players coming up through junior who've never had to play defense before because no one could stop them, at some point, you hit a ceiling and you either wash out or adapt to thrive.

Why hasn't he already changed? Success is a bit of a blinder, yeah?

If I'm Dubas, when I sit down with the coaching staff, that's the exact conversation I'm having. You guys had a good regular season with reasonable improvement given the circumstances; the next level is going to require not-too significant adjustment.

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths. The team is strong enough in talent now that you can use the first half to build up your bench and give your vets additional recovery time (screw their pride). This is an easy fix.

We got killed on predictability (again). Players are smart and can handle more than two routes and breakout plays. Let your skill be creative. The horses are already in the stable, so this is an easy enough fix.

Balanced attack and ice time in the regular season is great to keep your workhorses fresh. In crunch time, accordion the bench and stack the percentages in your favour with your best players. Easy fix. you love to win, Babcock? Then play to win, not to not-lose.
Good article and agree with it all. I've bitched about Babs all year and his insistence of starting the 4th line after a goal. I never liked him doing that and in the end it cost us in game 6 when he started the 4th line after going up 1-0. There's lots of good things about Babs but there's lots of stuff I don't like to and most were mentioned in the article. He needs to change or he needs to go. I think the leash is going to be really short for him next year. What is Sheldon Keefe's contract status for next year?

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2019, 12:05:02 PM »
We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths.

Is it though? Last year in game 7 against the Bruins our 4th line was JVR-Bozak-Kapanen. And we still had 3 legitimate NHLers in the pressbox in Komarov, Leivo, and Martin.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 12:09:00 PM by CarltonTheBear »

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2019, 12:05:02 PM »