Author Topic: Jays Roster Discussion  (Read 51698 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #750 on: December 03, 2018, 09:23:21 AM »

They didnít either rebuild or build around what they had. Became less competitive and squandered assets. This discussion has been had.

Well, sorry if you've had this conversation, because every time I see something like the above, I literally think of all the people who used to say "the Leafs can never rebuild". The Jays have pretty clearly been rebuilding.

They tried to hedge on Donaldson and it blew up in their face, but if Donaldson had gotten back to MVP form in St Louis, it might have accelerated the Jays rebuild, but would have been heartbreaking. If he'd gotten back to that form here, then who knows...
Did you see Donaldson's comments about the Blue Jays training staff, and also Shapiro somewhat indirectly?

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/mlb/unveiled-in-atlanta-ex-blue-jay-josh-donaldson-takes-shot-at-former-team?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1543415812

We had probably the best GM in the game and then Rogers basically replaced him by hiring Shapiro to try and save money.  That should tell you all you need to know as a fan.  Attendance was good, the organization was profitable.  Prior to Shapiro being hired the Blue Jays had a great vibe from Beeston all the way down.  Shapiro has systematically gutted pretty much all of that from the organization at this point.  It's hard to watch as fan.  You guys can talk about the rebuild and this and that.  IMO that's all nonsense.  The bottom line is that the team is poorly run from the top down.  Donaldson makes a good point.  Why did Shapiro fire the former training staff?  The same goes for the large number of Canadian employees within the organization that he has fired so he can replace them with his American cronies.  This is all about power, control, and manipulation and I will not support it as a fan.  Our family has cancelled our seasons tickets and we had four of them.  You guys will see, that place will be a ghost town this season.  All because the soul of the team has been sucked out by greedy ownership and a sleazy shill of a team president.

What did you think was going to happen to ďthe soul of the teamĒ?Donaldson should be focused on staying on the park, because if he canít, heís not getting another $23M deal next year.

Even if Anthropolous has stayed - and remember, he wasnít fired - he had traded all his chips for those 2 runs, and then left rather than deal with the fallout.

That your family chooses not to support the team via season tickets anymore now is a fair use of your money. As far as I can see - and feel free to demonstrate where Iím wrong, but it not Donaldson, itís not Encarnacion, and itís ceronot the training staff - the Jays are being run in a sensible manner and dealing with the necessity of re-invigorating their 40 man roster to be competitive... if that costs them the support of a certain bracket of fans, thatís only to be expected.

Agreed. It will be a ghost town because the Jays aren't the Leafs - winning changes everything. And I'm sorry to say the window for the team that AA built was a few years at most and the prospect pool was empty when he left.

JD can say what he likes but he should prove it on the field this year before blaming different staff.
I call BS they had 3 top prospects in Osuana, Sanchez, and Stroman on their roster. They were in a great place and Shapiro neither added the right pieces or recouped anything. Worst rebuild ever. Total buzz kill from day one and complete inept job done to date. A complete PR disaster to boot.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #750 on: December 03, 2018, 09:23:21 AM »

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #751 on: December 03, 2018, 09:32:09 AM »
I call BS they had 3 top prospects in Osuana, Sanchez, and Stroman on their roster.

Like you say, those three guys were already on the roster. And none of them turned out to be good enough players, at least not yet, to justify building a team around(to say nothing about their character).

But behind them, the actual group of prospects they had were nowhere near good enough to be the backbone of a real contender. That's not a great place for going forward by any measure.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Bender

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5566
  • Gender: Male
  • Bender cracked corn and he is great!
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #752 on: December 03, 2018, 09:40:12 AM »

They didnít either rebuild or build around what they had. Became less competitive and squandered assets. This discussion has been had.

Well, sorry if you've had this conversation, because every time I see something like the above, I literally think of all the people who used to say "the Leafs can never rebuild". The Jays have pretty clearly been rebuilding.

They tried to hedge on Donaldson and it blew up in their face, but if Donaldson had gotten back to MVP form in St Louis, it might have accelerated the Jays rebuild, but would have been heartbreaking. If he'd gotten back to that form here, then who knows...
Did you see Donaldson's comments about the Blue Jays training staff, and also Shapiro somewhat indirectly?

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/mlb/unveiled-in-atlanta-ex-blue-jay-josh-donaldson-takes-shot-at-former-team?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1543415812

We had probably the best GM in the game and then Rogers basically replaced him by hiring Shapiro to try and save money.  That should tell you all you need to know as a fan.  Attendance was good, the organization was profitable.  Prior to Shapiro being hired the Blue Jays had a great vibe from Beeston all the way down.  Shapiro has systematically gutted pretty much all of that from the organization at this point.  It's hard to watch as fan.  You guys can talk about the rebuild and this and that.  IMO that's all nonsense.  The bottom line is that the team is poorly run from the top down.  Donaldson makes a good point.  Why did Shapiro fire the former training staff?  The same goes for the large number of Canadian employees within the organization that he has fired so he can replace them with his American cronies.  This is all about power, control, and manipulation and I will not support it as a fan.  Our family has cancelled our seasons tickets and we had four of them.  You guys will see, that place will be a ghost town this season.  All because the soul of the team has been sucked out by greedy ownership and a sleazy shill of a team president.

What did you think was going to happen to ďthe soul of the teamĒ?Donaldson should be focused on staying on the park, because if he canít, heís not getting another $23M deal next year.

Even if Anthropolous has stayed - and remember, he wasnít fired - he had traded all his chips for those 2 runs, and then left rather than deal with the fallout.

That your family chooses not to support the team via season tickets anymore now is a fair use of your money. As far as I can see - and feel free to demonstrate where Iím wrong, but it not Donaldson, itís not Encarnacion, and itís ceronot the training staff - the Jays are being run in a sensible manner and dealing with the necessity of re-invigorating their 40 man roster to be competitive... if that costs them the support of a certain bracket of fans, thatís only to be expected.

Agreed. It will be a ghost town because the Jays aren't the Leafs - winning changes everything. And I'm sorry to say the window for the team that AA built was a few years at most and the prospect pool was empty when he left.

JD can say what he likes but he should prove it on the field this year before blaming different staff.
I call BS they had 3 top prospects in Osuana, Sanchez, and Stroman on their roster. They were in a great place and Shapiro neither added the right pieces or recouped anything. Worst rebuild ever. Total buzz kill from day one and complete inept job done to date. A complete PR disaster to boot.
You call BS and all I have to do is call Syndergaard. I'll have to do more research to add more to the conversation but that's how I recall things playing out - we doubled down on a roster with a small window.

Everyone is angry at Shapiro for having to clean up AA's mess and for the team not being very good once he bailed when he realized the writing was on the wall. Like many other people that are revered by others,  he wasn't around long enough to fail. If AA were here now he'd be just as loathed as Shapiro because, like I said, winning changes everything and they haven't been winning.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #753 on: December 03, 2018, 09:57:16 AM »

They didnít either rebuild or build around what they had. Became less competitive and squandered assets. This discussion has been had.

Well, sorry if you've had this conversation, because every time I see something like the above, I literally think of all the people who used to say "the Leafs can never rebuild". The Jays have pretty clearly been rebuilding.

They tried to hedge on Donaldson and it blew up in their face, but if Donaldson had gotten back to MVP form in St Louis, it might have accelerated the Jays rebuild, but would have been heartbreaking. If he'd gotten back to that form here, then who knows...
Did you see Donaldson's comments about the Blue Jays training staff, and also Shapiro somewhat indirectly?

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/mlb/unveiled-in-atlanta-ex-blue-jay-josh-donaldson-takes-shot-at-former-team?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1543415812

We had probably the best GM in the game and then Rogers basically replaced him by hiring Shapiro to try and save money.  That should tell you all you need to know as a fan.  Attendance was good, the organization was profitable.  Prior to Shapiro being hired the Blue Jays had a great vibe from Beeston all the way down.  Shapiro has systematically gutted pretty much all of that from the organization at this point.  It's hard to watch as fan.  You guys can talk about the rebuild and this and that.  IMO that's all nonsense.  The bottom line is that the team is poorly run from the top down.  Donaldson makes a good point.  Why did Shapiro fire the former training staff?  The same goes for the large number of Canadian employees within the organization that he has fired so he can replace them with his American cronies.  This is all about power, control, and manipulation and I will not support it as a fan.  Our family has cancelled our seasons tickets and we had four of them.  You guys will see, that place will be a ghost town this season.  All because the soul of the team has been sucked out by greedy ownership and a sleazy shill of a team president.

What did you think was going to happen to ďthe soul of the teamĒ?Donaldson should be focused on staying on the park, because if he canít, heís not getting another $23M deal next year.

Even if Anthropolous has stayed - and remember, he wasnít fired - he had traded all his chips for those 2 runs, and then left rather than deal with the fallout.

That your family chooses not to support the team via season tickets anymore now is a fair use of your money. As far as I can see - and feel free to demonstrate where Iím wrong, but it not Donaldson, itís not Encarnacion, and itís ceronot the training staff - the Jays are being run in a sensible manner and dealing with the necessity of re-invigorating their 40 man roster to be competitive... if that costs them the support of a certain bracket of fans, thatís only to be expected.

Agreed. It will be a ghost town because the Jays aren't the Leafs - winning changes everything. And I'm sorry to say the window for the team that AA built was a few years at most and the prospect pool was empty when he left.

JD can say what he likes but he should prove it on the field this year before blaming different staff.
I call BS they had 3 top prospects in Osuana, Sanchez, and Stroman on their roster. They were in a great place and Shapiro neither added the right pieces or recouped anything. Worst rebuild ever. Total buzz kill from day one and complete inept job done to date. A complete PR disaster to boot.
You call BS and all I have to do is call Syndergaard. I'll have to do more research to add more to the conversation but that's how I recall things playing out - we doubled down on a roster with a small window.

Everyone is angry at Shapiro for having to clean up AA's mess and for the team not being very good once he bailed when he realized the writing was on the wall. Like many other people that are revered by others,  he wasn't around long enough to fail. If AA were here now he'd be just as loathed as Shapiro because, like I said, winning changes everything and they haven't been winning.
Yep Shapiro been great... we're definitely on track...
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #754 on: December 03, 2018, 10:31:45 AM »

Yeah, the only thing the dopes running the team have done is build one of the better ranked farm systems in baseball:

https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm-systems-in-mlb/c-288576958

But whoever heard of rebuilding through an excellent farm system?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline TML fan

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #755 on: December 03, 2018, 10:57:33 AM »
Rebuilding is only supposed to take 0.0 seasons guys.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #756 on: December 03, 2018, 11:04:13 AM »

Yeah, the only thing the dopes running the team have done is build one of the better ranked farm systems in baseball:

https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm-systems-in-mlb/c-288576958

But whoever heard of rebuilding through an excellent farm system?
Imagine how much better it could have been if he actually committed to the rebuild instead of spinning his tires.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #757 on: December 03, 2018, 11:09:43 AM »
Imagine how much better it could have been if he actually committed to the rebuild instead of spinning his tires.

It's ranked as the 5th best in baseball so the answer is that it couldn't have been that much better.

Practically either. Trading Donaldson and...I don't know, Smoak I guess, would have added a couple pieces to the farm system, not drastically changed things. They moved pieces, added others. The real problem with the farm system not being as good as it could be aren't the one or two guys Shapiro could maybe have moved to get one or two extra pieces, it's the litany of older players with bad contracts the Jays have that they can't really move on from that they can't turn into extra pieces. Imagine if instead of Tulowitzki or Martin the Jays had valuable guys who could be leveraged into other prospects.

Either way, not being able to acknowledge that Shapiro/Atkins have rebuilt through the farm system and have done a good job of it kind of indicates that this isn't really being looked at fairly by people who just want to criticize them for being left holding the bag from AA's lousy deals.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Deebo

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 4710
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #758 on: December 03, 2018, 11:41:38 AM »
I don't get EE at all. Should the Jays have traded him during the playoff run of 2016? Or should they have signed him to a deal they didn't like in the hopes of trading him later on? Because at the money he was asking for, I doubt they could get much more for him than the FA compensation draft pick.

Considering they drafted Nate Pearson with the compensation pick, I'd say that's accurate.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #759 on: December 03, 2018, 12:29:11 PM »

By the way, just look how under just the tiniest bit of scrutiny and a serious look at what Shapiro/Atkins have actually done the thread goes from "They haven't rebuilt" to "Yeah, but if they'd done a few things differently the rebuild could be better".

I get people are bitter how after years of no playoffs the competitive window as only a couple of years before another building process was needed but that's the issue with trying to build a team on older players rather than with young, homegrown talent. If what Shapiro/Atkins do here is build the Jays into what they built the Indians into, then the next window of competitiveness will be larger and Rogers has proven that they're willing to spend at a level that can keep a team like that together.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline sickbeast

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #760 on: December 03, 2018, 06:10:36 PM »

They didnít either rebuild or build around what they had. Became less competitive and squandered assets. This discussion has been had.

Well, sorry if you've had this conversation, because every time I see something like the above, I literally think of all the people who used to say "the Leafs can never rebuild". The Jays have pretty clearly been rebuilding.

They tried to hedge on Donaldson and it blew up in their face, but if Donaldson had gotten back to MVP form in St Louis, it might have accelerated the Jays rebuild, but would have been heartbreaking. If he'd gotten back to that form here, then who knows...
Did you see Donaldson's comments about the Blue Jays training staff, and also Shapiro somewhat indirectly?

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/mlb/unveiled-in-atlanta-ex-blue-jay-josh-donaldson-takes-shot-at-former-team?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1543415812

We had probably the best GM in the game and then Rogers basically replaced him by hiring Shapiro to try and save money.  That should tell you all you need to know as a fan.  Attendance was good, the organization was profitable.  Prior to Shapiro being hired the Blue Jays had a great vibe from Beeston all the way down.  Shapiro has systematically gutted pretty much all of that from the organization at this point.  It's hard to watch as fan.  You guys can talk about the rebuild and this and that.  IMO that's all nonsense.  The bottom line is that the team is poorly run from the top down.  Donaldson makes a good point.  Why did Shapiro fire the former training staff?  The same goes for the large number of Canadian employees within the organization that he has fired so he can replace them with his American cronies.  This is all about power, control, and manipulation and I will not support it as a fan.  Our family has cancelled our seasons tickets and we had four of them.  You guys will see, that place will be a ghost town this season.  All because the soul of the team has been sucked out by greedy ownership and a sleazy shill of a team president.

What did you think was going to happen to ďthe soul of the teamĒ?Donaldson should be focused on staying on the park, because if he canít, heís not getting another $23M deal next year.

Even if Anthropolous has stayed - and remember, he wasnít fired - he had traded all his chips for those 2 runs, and then left rather than deal with the fallout.

That your family chooses not to support the team via season tickets anymore now is a fair use of your money. As far as I can see - and feel free to demonstrate where Iím wrong, but it not Donaldson, itís not Encarnacion, and itís ceronot the training staff - the Jays are being run in a sensible manner and dealing with the necessity of re-invigorating their 40 man roster to be competitive... if that costs them the support of a certain bracket of fans, thatís only to be expected.

Agreed. It will be a ghost town because the Jays aren't the Leafs - winning changes everything. And I'm sorry to say the window for the team that AA built was a few years at most and the prospect pool was empty when he left.

JD can say what he likes but he should prove it on the field this year before blaming different staff.
I call BS they had 3 top prospects in Osuana, Sanchez, and Stroman on their roster. They were in a great place and Shapiro neither added the right pieces or recouped anything. Worst rebuild ever. Total buzz kill from day one and complete inept job done to date. A complete PR disaster to boot.
You call BS and all I have to do is call Syndergaard. I'll have to do more research to add more to the conversation but that's how I recall things playing out - we doubled down on a roster with a small window.

Everyone is angry at Shapiro for having to clean up AA's mess and for the team not being very good once he bailed when he realized the writing was on the wall. Like many other people that are revered by others,  he wasn't around long enough to fail. If AA were here now he'd be just as loathed as Shapiro because, like I said, winning changes everything and they haven't been winning.
Yep Shapiro been great... we're definitely on track...
Thatís the thing. And Shapiro basically admitted that they should have started the rebuild earlier but there were external factors. The team is poorly run, letís face it. I can name at least five major assets that they mismanaged. Excellent assets that they could have parlayed into very nice prospects that would have put us into a position similar to the Houston Astros. Now weíre stuck with a handful of very good to elite prospects. I donít think it will be enough. Not against the Yankees and the Red Sox. I donít see the endgame here. Thatís the sad part. At least when the Leafs tanked they did it right and we had hope. Iím really down about the Jays and Iím a really huge fan. It was pretty upsetting for us to sell the season tickets. We did not take the decision lightly.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #761 on: December 03, 2018, 06:17:26 PM »

Whatever the process is, it isn't over. They can still move Smoak and other players this year. They're going to have the 11th pick in the draft next year and probably another high pick the year after. They can sign mid-tier UFAs and move them as well.

And, again, they still have one of the best farm systems in baseball with maybe the single best prospect in baseball. That is not a bad outcome of a rebuild.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline sickbeast

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #762 on: December 03, 2018, 08:30:12 PM »

Whatever the process is, it isn't over. They can still move Smoak and other players this year. They're going to have the 11th pick in the draft next year and probably another high pick the year after. They can sign mid-tier UFAs and move them as well.

And, again, they still have one of the best farm systems in baseball with maybe the single best prospect in baseball. That is not a bad outcome of a rebuild.
True, it's not bad, but it could have been *so* much better.  Look at it this way, until recently the Yankees had an equivalent or better farm system, they went to the playoffs, *and* they have endless cash and an ownership that wants to win.  That's what the Jays are up against.  And it doesn't even take the Red Sox into consideration.  The Jays only chance at contention is a stacked farm system that they can parlay into elite rentals like what AA did.

Also for all I know the Yankees could still have a farm system that's just as good as the Blue Jays.  They have been slowly emptying the cupboard and I don't know where they are at currently.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 25782
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #763 on: December 03, 2018, 08:38:26 PM »
True, it's not bad, but it could have been *so* much better.  Look at it this way, until recently the Yankees had an equivalent or better farm system, they went to the playoffs, *and* they have endless cash and an ownership that wants to win.  That's what the Jays are up against.  And it doesn't even take the Red Sox into consideration.  The Jays only chance at contention is a stacked farm system that they can parlay into elite rentals like what AA did.

Also for all I know the Yankees could still have a farm system that's just as good as the Blue Jays.  They have been slowly emptying the cupboard and I don't know where they are at currently.


That midseason ranking had the Yankees at #10 overall but they've since traded away their top prospect in the James Paxton deal so odds are they're quite a bit lower.

I feel pretty confident that the best way for the Jays to compete is to actually use the farm system to get good players and then supplement those players with free agency and trades when it's appropriate. Not only do I think it will result in better teams than AA ever put together, they'll be competitive longer. The Jays won't ever be the Yankees when it comes to player acquisition but they're not the Rays either. When they need to, Rogers has proven they can spend akin to a mid-tier team which the Jays more or less are.

As to whether or not it could have been better than it currently is, outside of the Donaldson situation I don't see that as being true and as I've discussed on here before, I think they can be forgiven for hoping that Donaldson would bounce back this year and make himself a valuable deadline piece. He didn't, which sucks, but I'm not going to let that colour the fact that they've done a very good job rebuilding the farm system. Past that, I don't think there are any situations where they could have done a lot better than they did.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline sickbeast

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
    • View Profile
Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #764 on: December 03, 2018, 08:58:38 PM »
True, it's not bad, but it could have been *so* much better.  Look at it this way, until recently the Yankees had an equivalent or better farm system, they went to the playoffs, *and* they have endless cash and an ownership that wants to win.  That's what the Jays are up against.  And it doesn't even take the Red Sox into consideration.  The Jays only chance at contention is a stacked farm system that they can parlay into elite rentals like what AA did.

Also for all I know the Yankees could still have a farm system that's just as good as the Blue Jays.  They have been slowly emptying the cupboard and I don't know where they are at currently.


That midseason ranking had the Yankees at #10 overall but they've since traded away their top prospect in the James Paxton deal so odds are they're quite a bit lower.

I feel pretty confident that the best way for the Jays to compete is to actually use the farm system to get good players and then supplement those players with free agency and trades when it's appropriate. Not only do I think it will result in better teams than AA ever put together, they'll be competitive longer. The Jays won't ever be the Yankees when it comes to player acquisition but they're not the Rays either. When they need to, Rogers has proven they can spend akin to a mid-tier team which the Jays more or less are.

As to whether or not it could have been better than it currently is, outside of the Donaldson situation I don't see that as being true and as I've discussed on here before, I think they can be forgiven for hoping that Donaldson would bounce back this year and make himself a valuable deadline piece. He didn't, which sucks, but I'm not going to let that colour the fact that they've done a very good job rebuilding the farm system. Past that, I don't think there are any situations where they could have done a lot better than they did.
The whole thing with Donaldson was shortsighted.  They were offered the eventual rookie of the year pitcher for him.  They should have taken it.  Anyone in their right mind would have.

Then there is Bautista, a franchise icon, who was unceremoniously shown the door when they could have had him for under a million last season.  He should have been made a coach IMO.  Some kind of role within the organization.

The whole Edwin negotiation was botched completely and really I think he had more value to the club than people realize.  Super great clubhouse guy.  My family got to meet him as seasons ticket holders.  Super nice guy with a great sense of humor.

There were other moves also.  I just think if they had gone with a scorched earth rebuild a year or two ago they would have gotten full value for a number of assets that they wound up getting little to nothing for.

In my own way I respect Shapiro as a penny pinching scrooge but I don't think he suits the Jays market or what they need.  When they got him I thought he might do great with a higher payroll than he had in Cleveland but so far all I have seen him do is slash and burn and make some boneheaded moves also.

The thing is also, and this is my own bias coming into play, I really liked AA.  Moreso than any Blue Jays GM I can remember since the glory days when they made the playoffs.  There was something about the way he conveyed himself and interacted with the players.  Shapiro seems fake and untrustworthy in comparison.  AA was warm, personable, enthusiastic, and most importantly, Canadian.  Worked his way to the top from the very bottom of the organization.  That's the kind of culture I would want within the team.  Not this slash and burn, fire everyone and replace them with people from Cleveland.  What message does that send the staff?  What motivation do they have to do their best or work hard if they don't have a realistic chance of moving up?

Anyhow this is flogging a dead horse, as usual.  We are going to have to agree to disagree.  Shapiro is one of the biggest idiots I have ever seen.  If you see it differently, good for you.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #764 on: December 03, 2018, 08:58:38 PM »