Author Topic: Jays Roster Discussion  (Read 51702 times)

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Offline Deebo

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #690 on: August 31, 2018, 10:24:19 PM »
They weren't going to get anything for him anyway.

Then qualify him and keep him.

There's a pretty good chance he wouldn't have signed a QO. In which case the return for him is just FA compensation so whatever return they got from Cleveland should probably be measured against that.

QO compensation would be a pick in the 80 range.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #690 on: August 31, 2018, 10:24:19 PM »

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #691 on: August 31, 2018, 10:30:12 PM »
I donít disagree with you - but it seems like optics at this point. If it comes to the same in terms of perceived value why  do you take the option where it looks like youíre desperate to throw out the trash rather than maybe giving some respect to the player that resurrected the franchise.

I know, I know, thereís no real thing as loyalty in sports.

Actually what I was going to say was that maybe the way they showed Donaldson respect was in asking him whether he'd rather be kept around or if he'd like to go somewhere that he could maybe build a little free agency value by means of playing some postseason baseball.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #692 on: August 31, 2018, 10:37:31 PM »
Thatís a fair point actually.

Iím not sure Iíd give this management team that much credit, but what youíre saying makes sense.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #693 on: August 31, 2018, 10:47:26 PM »
Thatís a fair point actually.

Iím not sure Iíd give this management team that much credit, but what youíre saying makes sense.

Obviously I have no idea what conversations took place between the Jays and Donaldson but given that this is a situation where what's best for the Jays(given that, as Deebo points out, FA compensation is pretty minimal) and what's best for Donaldson line up fairly closely it seems like this was the right move regardless.

Sure, it stinks that a player as good as Donaldson who very likely could still be a good player is going to leave without much return but unless the Jays were going to make a real attempt to sign him next year(and even if, it's hard to imagine him wanting to come back outside of them offering him the most money) then this was probably inevitable.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #694 on: August 31, 2018, 11:21:38 PM »

Granderson to the Brewers now too, apparently.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Captain Canuck

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #695 on: August 31, 2018, 11:29:28 PM »
Ideally the Jays would have traded a healthy Donaldson at the July deadline for a decent return. With that not being an option it was essentially trade him at the August deadline for next to nothing or hold onto him and extend him a qualifying offer for roughly $18 million in the off-season. Management didn't want to risk the qualifying offer because they believe he would have taken it.

Why would that have been bad? In part because it would block Vlad Jr.'s path to the majors. The Jays only need someone to plug in at 3B for a few weeks at the start of next season to avoid burning a year off Vlad Jr.'s contract. They have players on the roster currently to fill that short-term void without bringing Josh back.
Another factor is all the large contracts on the books for next season in Martin, Morales and Tulo. We are already seeing the team have to get creative with Martin because Jansen is ready to be the #1 catcher. This log jam in the infield could potentially affect how quickly guys like Bichette and Biggio reach the majors.

I'm grateful for all that Josh Donaldson did for the Jays, but at the end of the day also looking forward to having the 3B position free for Vlad Jr. to step in. It sounds like things unfortunately soured at the end between Josh and the Jays, but that's likely more to do with him being one of AA's guys and Shapiro and Atkins wanting to take the team in another direction by committing to the rebuild.

Offline Captain Canuck

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #696 on: August 31, 2018, 11:35:51 PM »

Granderson to the Brewers now too, apparently.

All the best to the Grandy Man, one of the classiest guys in MLB.
Opens up more playing time for Billy McKinney in the 4th OF spot. He's also a LH bat and has looked good thus far.

Jays get A ball OF Demi Orimoloye from Milwaukee in the deal. Interesting background, born in Nigeria and grew up in the Ottawa area.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:52:40 PM by Captain Canuck »

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #697 on: September 01, 2018, 06:48:38 AM »
Best of luck to Donaldson & Granderson.

Up until this season, Donaldson remained among the best in baseball:

Donaldson, 32, was the 2015 American League MVP and one of the most productive players over the previous five years. From 2013 through 2017, Mike Trout was the only position player with a higher cumulative fWAR than Donaldsonís 34.1.

https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-jays-get-little-return-in-donaldson-deal-1.1166045


For the Blue Jays, up until last season, he remained among their most impactful player:

In 2015 and 2016, he produced 16.1 WAR in 2015 and 2016 ó more than his world-class teammates Bautista and Encarnaciůn combined.

Donaldson had a down year in 2017 by his own standards, but an incredible one by just about anybody elseís. According to Fangraphs he was worth 5.1 WAR in just 113 games for the season ó good enough for 20th in the league among position players, even though all but four of the players ahead of him played in 145 games or more. Whatís easy to forget about Donaldsonís 2017 season, though, is that a tremendous amount of his value was produced late in the year.


https://theathletic.com/490692/2018/08/28/stoeten-if-this-is-the-end-of-the-josh-donaldson-era-he-will-go-down-as-one-of-the-best-to-suit-up-for-the-blue-jays/[/color]
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 02:44:02 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline LittleHockeyFan

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #698 on: September 01, 2018, 11:44:31 AM »
::::repealing my Blue Jays fandom::::

:(

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #699 on: September 01, 2018, 12:36:25 PM »
Player to be named later.

Good times.

Online Highlander

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #700 on: September 01, 2018, 02:29:42 PM »
Player to be named later.

Good times.
I would say the player to be named later will be based upon any performance or non performance on Donaldson part. If he is MVP of the World Series we probably will reap a good pick or prospect. If he is in his non movement period due to ruptured Calf muscle then not so much in return.
Welcome Vlad (next April).
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #701 on: September 01, 2018, 02:52:58 PM »
Player to be named later.

Good times.
I would say the player to be named later will be based upon any performance or non performance on Donaldson part. If he is MVP of the World Series we probably will reap a good pick or prospect. If he is in his non movement period due to ruptured Calf muscle then not so much in return.
Welcome Vlad (next April).

It will end up being no one or a player who amounts to be no one.

Whoever (if anyone) it is will be an answer to a trivia question in a few years.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #702 on: September 01, 2018, 05:38:57 PM »
The Jays' (management) and Donaldson obviously "didn't see eye to eye" on several fronts:



https://theathletic.com/500105/2018/08/31/lott-the-glorious-rise-and-mysterious-fall-of-josh-donaldson-with-the-blue-jays/
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 05:42:37 PM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #703 on: September 01, 2018, 08:53:37 PM »
I would say the player to be named later will be based upon any performance or non performance on Donaldson part. If he is MVP of the World Series we probably will reap a good pick or prospect. If he is in his non movement period due to ruptured Calf muscle then not so much in return.

That's not how PTBNL deals work. The Jays and Indians will have agreed on a list of players, all of relatively equal value, and the Indians will choose one to send to the Jays later on. If Donaldson does well, the Indians aren't going to send the Jays a better grade of prospect out of the goodness of their hearts.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #704 on: September 01, 2018, 09:02:52 PM »
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=merryw000jul

Apparently this is the player the jays are getting.

ďThereís more to it than the fact that the player hasnít touched the big-leagues Ė itís the years of control, the cost of that player and what that means for potential contributions and efficiency within your roster,Ē Atkins said

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-believe-ptbnl-valuable-retaining-donaldson/

I donít like this management team, I really donít.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #704 on: September 01, 2018, 09:02:52 PM »