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Maple Leafs News and Views => 2018/19 Leafs Game Day Threads => 2011 to 2018 GDTs (OLD) => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 08:49:51 AM

Title: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 08:49:51 AM
(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/230.png)@(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/196.png)
7-4-0, 14 points | 5-5-0, 10 points

Projected Lines

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Leivo-Moore-Kapanen

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Borgman-Polak

Andersen
             
Donskoi-Thornton-Pavelski
Karlsson-Couture-Hertl
Boedker-Tierney-Labanc
Meier-Carpenter-Ward

Ryan-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Heed

Jones

Scratches

James van Riemsdyk
Matt Martin
Connor Carrick
      
Barclay Goodrow
Jannik Hansen
Dylan Demelo

Game Notes

TOR
•Andersen (6-4-0, 3.61 GAA, .890 Sv%) will likely start for the Leafs
•Projected line-up is based on our last game, but it was said that JVR and Martin were both only expected to miss one game so we'll have to wait and see if they are healthy enough to return
•Patrick Marleau is of course making his return to the city and team where he spent the first 20 years of his NHL career

SJ
•Martin Jones (4-3-0, 2.31 GAA, .928 Sv%) will likely start for the Sharks
•After scoring 29 goals and 76 points last season, Brent Burns is off to a bit of a slow start for his standards: he has 6 points in 10 games but is still looking for his first goal of the season
Injuries

•Nathan Horton - Back - Out indefinitely
•Joffrey Lupul - Actually Injured - Out indefinitely
•Matt Martin - Upper Body - Questionable Monday
•James van Riemsdyk - Lower Body - Questionable Monday
      
•Paul Martin - Ankle - Injured Reserve

Stream Options

https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLstreams
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Rob on October 30, 2017, 09:38:09 AM
No red team or variation thereof (orange) tonight, so should be a win.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 30, 2017, 09:45:38 AM
You sure JVR and Martin are still scratches?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 09:53:21 AM
You sure JVR and Martin are still scratches?

Noope. Like I said projected line-up is just based off the last game for this one. Didn't want to jump to any conclusions in regards to those two.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 01:33:31 PM
Per morning skate:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Komarov
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore-Brown

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Kristen-Bell-Laughing-to-Crying.gif)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 01:34:55 PM
"The beauty of the system is, once you get in, if you play good enough, no one takes you out."

-Mike Babcock, October 25th 2017
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
"The beauty of the system is, once you get in, if you play good enough, no one takes you out."

-Mike Babcock, October 25th 2017

It's the system man!!!!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 30, 2017, 02:02:11 PM
Why do you hate Leivo so much, Mr Babcock? What has he done to you?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 30, 2017, 02:03:39 PM
[whispers]

Fire Babcock.

First!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 02:09:25 PM
How good would this look:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
JVR-Marleau-Marner
Martin*-Bozak-Leivo

*Kap or Sosh there instead ideally but I'm trying to be real.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 30, 2017, 02:13:52 PM
I mean, I love the way his teams play -- or, uh, did during the last two seasons -- but, as far as deploying talent in the system to maximize performance, I'm beginning to think that he.... sort of sucks... That his dumb old-school quirks are now creating worse outcomes at least 4 spots in the line-up... That these crappy moves are covered when he's got a Matthews, Nylander, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Lidstrom or two or three going... That, over the last couple weeks, he's been sounding increasingly like Randy Carlyle and showing as much creativity... That he's as much a fraud as any motivational speaker you'd encounter in an exurban chain hotel's ballroom... 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 30, 2017, 02:18:57 PM
Did Leivo get a hattrick last game?  No?  Too bad so sad.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: cabber24 on October 30, 2017, 02:19:35 PM
"The beauty of the system is, once you get in, if you play good enough, no one takes you out."

-Mike Babcock, October 25th 2017
The game they "got into" was awful. No one earned a spot that night.

What I'm worried about is the atrocious goal tending and shoddy D. I am not overly worried about Andersen because he seems to be "a slow starter" so maybe we should take 7-4 record during his "slow start" and be happy with that. However we're past the start now, time to smarten up.

Why is Borgman all over the ice? Can someone tell him to chill out and hang back? Outside of Gardiner and Reilly please stay north of the offensive blue line.

Time to break up JVR and Bozak they're a proven liability together and Marnier is not the defensive answer to that equation.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
How good would this look:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
JVR-Marleau-Marner
Martin*-Bozak-Leivo

*Kap or Sosh there instead ideally but I'm trying to be real.

So I like it.  But I would like to keep Marleau on the wing and move Nylander to center.  It feels like they are grooming Nylander to be a center, as they have him taking some draws this year.  But that means that someone on the left side has to switch to right.  So maybe something like:

Hyman - Matthews - Leivo
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JVR - Nylander - Brown
Martin - Bozak - Komarov.

You could switch Leivo out for one of Marner or Brown if you are so inclined.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 02:26:37 PM
Did Leivo get a hattrick last game?  No?  Too bad so sad.

Aha, that's the answer.  He just played gud, not real gud.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 02:27:37 PM
I mean, I love the way his teams play -- or, uh, did during the last two seasons -- but, as far as deploying talent in the system to maximize performance, I'm beginning to think that he.... sort of sucks... That his dumb old-school quirks are now creating worse outcomes at least 4 spots in the line-up... That these crappy moves are covered when he's got a Matthews, Nylander, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Lidstrom or two or three going... That, over the last couple weeks, he's been sounding increasingly like Randy Carlyle and showing as much creativity... That he's as much a fraud as any motivational speaker you'd encounter in an exurban chain hotel's ballroom...

Easy there.... 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: cabber24 on October 30, 2017, 02:29:48 PM
How good would this look:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
JVR-Marleau-Marner
Martin*-Bozak-Leivo

*Kap or Sosh there instead ideally but I'm trying to be real.

So I like it.  But I would like to keep Marleau on the wing and move Nylander to center.  It feels like they are grooming Nylander to be a center, as they have him taking some draws this year.  But that means that someone on the left side has to switch to right.  So maybe something like:

Hyman - Matthews - Leivo
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JVR - Nylander - Brown
Martin - Bozak - Komarov.

You could switch Leivo out for one of Marner or Brown if you are so inclined.
I agree with you that the lines to date need a tweak. What those lines look like I am not exactly sure but I would like to see a capable defensive forward on each line. I would put one of: Hyman, Brown, Kamarov and Kadri on each line.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 02:39:23 PM
Another line-up that I think I've posted before that completely blows up the Bozak line (which can really only happen by trading JVR IMO) and best spreads out the defensive talent among the forwards:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Marner
Marleau-Bozak-Brown
Martin-Moore-Leivo
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 02:41:43 PM
I mean, I love the way his teams play -- or, uh, did during the last two seasons -- but, as far as deploying talent in the system to maximize performance, I'm beginning to think that he.... sort of sucks... That his dumb old-school quirks are now creating worse outcomes at least 4 spots in the line-up... That these crappy moves are covered when he's got a Matthews, Nylander, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Lidstrom or two or three going... That, over the last couple weeks, he's been sounding increasingly like Randy Carlyle and showing as much creativity... That he's as much a fraud as any motivational speaker you'd encounter in an exurban chain hotel's ballroom...

I'm frustrated too, but put in to context, they only lost two games in a row.  Sure it's not so much the loses, but the way the way they lost so that is concerning.  However, the Leafs did hire Mike Babcock, not P.T. Barnum.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 02:44:15 PM
Another line-up that I think I've posted before that completely blows up the Bozak line (which can really only happen by trading JVR IMO) and best spreads out the defensive talent among the forwards:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Marner
Marleau-Bozak-Brown
Martin-Moore-Leivo

I like that lineup a lot.  Not that I don't like JVR, but seeing that lineup really speaks to why trading JVR may be a good thing.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNZ0vmqVAAYEFLH.jpg)

Not gonna lie I saw this picture posted on twitter earlier this morning and I thought "oh that's cute Marleau said hi with one of San Jose's old equipment managers or arena maintenance staff".

That's Owen Nolan.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 30, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Did Leivo get a hattrick last game?  No?  Too bad so sad.

Aha, that's the answer.  He just played gud, not real gud.

See?  It's his own fault.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Frank E on October 30, 2017, 03:55:34 PM
Another line-up that I think I've posted before that completely blows up the Bozak line (which can really only happen by trading JVR IMO) and best spreads out the defensive talent among the forwards:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Marner
Marleau-Bozak-Brown
Martin-Moore-Leivo

I don't usually spend time critiquing hypothetical lineups, but the only scoring threat on the left side is Marleau.

I think you need another scoring threat on the left side on another one of those top-3 lines.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 03:55:37 PM
So usually the west coast swing is:

- Get beat by the Sharks (Marleau was usually a Leaf killer).
- 50/50 game with the Kings
- 50/50 game with the Ducks.

I hope now that Marleau is on the Leafs they can maybe win a game in San Jose.  If they do, then if they can get a win in either L.A. or Anahiem, then that part of the trip could be considered a success.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 04:04:58 PM
So usually the west coast swing is:

- Get beat by the Sharks (Marleau was usually a Leaf killer).
- 50/50 game with the Kings
- 50/50 game with the Ducks.

I hope now that Marleau is on the Leafs they can maybe win a game in San Jose.  If they do, then if they can get a win in either L.A. or Anahiem, then that part of the trip could be considered a success.

IIRC it's with St. Louis tacked on this Saturday.  4 games on the road against good opponents in 6 nights.  Major, major test to see just how good this team is.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 30, 2017, 04:13:22 PM
Leivo sitting after last game is a joke.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 30, 2017, 04:24:58 PM
Leivo sitting after last game is a joke.

I'd like a media member to quote Babcock's comment back to him and ask why Leivo is out of the lineup after being arguably the Leafs 2nd best forward.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Andy on October 30, 2017, 04:26:05 PM
Leivo sitting after last game is a joke.

I'd like a media member to quote Babcock's comment back to him and ask why Leivo is out of the lineup after being arguably the Leafs 2nd best forward.

Yea, I keep waiting for an answer to that. He has absolutely no excuse.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 05:59:10 PM
The lineup b****ing is getting terribly tiresome guys. Every single game it's Leivo this and Martin that...

GO LEAFS GO
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 30, 2017, 06:06:25 PM
The lineup b****ing is getting terribly tiresome guys. Every single game it's Leivo this and Martin that...

GO LEAFS GO

1 - You being a relentless fanboy could also be described as tiresome.

2 - Babcock "If you play well, you won't get taken out of the lineup."
     Fans and media "wow Josh Leivo played great, he must be excited given Babcock's comments."
     Babcock "Take a seat Josh, Matt Martin come on down."

If you have a problem with people pointing out the sheer lunacy of #2 then go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you're really being objective.

We all want the Leafs to win here, calling them on their BS is perfectly acceptable.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 30, 2017, 06:47:17 PM
2 - Babcock "If you play well, you won't get taken out of the lineup."
     Fans and media "wow Josh Leivo played great."
     Babcock "I thought Leivo was involved in scoring chances and was very good for us and he was competitive. We need more of that from some of the guys that have been playing each night."
     Fans and media "He must be excited given Babcock's comments."
     Babcock "Take a seat Josh, Matt Martin come on down."

If you have a problem with people pointing out the sheer lunacy of #2 then go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you're really being objective.

We all want the Leafs to win here, calling them on their BS is perfectly acceptable.

And it was even better than that (actual quote above).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 30, 2017, 06:50:36 PM
However, the Leafs did hire Mike Babcock, not P.T. Barnum.

No.

PT Barnum was an artist.

Babcock's a chintzy motivational speaker.

If he wins a Cup with this team, he'll be flogging reverse montages during his retirement.


I'm frustrated too, but put in to context, they only lost two games in a row. 

No one thinks that they're going to go 82-0. But they're supposed to be a three-line team. And they haven't been this season. Why be complacent until the results align to the performance? I thought the Leafs cast that foolishness out when they dumped Carlyle and Nonis and became a "smart" and "progressive" organization.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 07:08:37 PM
Dawwww...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 07:16:27 PM
However, the Leafs did hire Mike Babcock, not P.T. Barnum.

No.

PT Barnum was an artist.

Babcock's a chintzy motivational speaker.

If he wins a Cup with this team, he'll be flogging reverse montages during his retirement.


I'm frustrated too, but put in to context, they only lost two games in a row. 

No one thinks that they're going to go 82-0. But they're supposed to be a three-line team. And they haven't been this season. Why be complacent until the results align to the performance? I thought the Leafs cast that foolishness out when they dumped Carlyle and Nonis and became a "smart" and "progressive" organization.

I don't think I'm being complacent.  I think there is a difference between being upset with the decisions that the coach is making, and claiming that they are a glorified motivational speaker.  I don't think that Babcock got dumber between this year and last.  Nobody was complaining that he was a fraud last year, but they still didn't agree with all of his choices.  I think the progess that the Leafs have shown towards being a possession based team is a change from the Nonis and Carlyle years.  They are embracing some of the more common understandings of the way hockey is being played these days.

Players go in to slumps, just like you say, no one expects them to be 82-0, and it is also possible that over stretches lines will run hot and cold. 

What I want to see is a response from the team.  I would like them to be competitive defensively against these teams.  If they get blown out of the water over the next two or three games, then that could show an underlying problem.  However if they make progress, and show that they will have a commitment to the defensive side of the puck, then perhaps they'll be a competitive team all year.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 07:52:57 PM
1. JvR and Martin weren't playing below the coach's expectations, so sitting your veterans returning from minor injury in favour of the injury subs is a non-starter. Still, it'd be nice to shuffle some things around to get Leivo some playing time because anything less than 38 games played from here on out means Leivo walks as a UFA (and I doubt he'd stay).

2. Leivo played great, but he has to basically play at Nylander-esque levels or produce at JvR rates to supplant a middle 6 winger role; he unfortunately does not have the role-flexibility of Brown, Hyman, Komarov, Kapanen in that he isn't trusted with PK, and the lower lines are PK town. It's sort of the same thing with Carrick vs Polak. If Leivo was a centre, he'd already be in over Bozak, who at this point in the season, is probably the player that has underperformed enough to warrant it. This is a knock against the development staff not rounding out Leivo's game when they had the time like they've done with Kapanen. It's also hard to fault a management team giving development priority to their own picks/players.

3. I'm inferring from observation that Borgman is on a grooming program (similar to Rielly); once Babcock identifies a worthwhile project, he is more than willing to take short-term inefficiencies for the sake of the training program (see Rielly/Zaitsev). Babcock has shown he is aware of these inefficiencies (e.g. "the goal is not to get Matthews the most points"), but also knows we have enough firepower to ride out those bumps over a longer stretch and let those odds play out. Polak comes in over Carrick because he's there to mentor Borgman (Polak 2.0 -- now with more skating ability!). Carrick not being trusted with PK does not help his cause (and Babcock hates short guys on the backend unless they have ridiculous offensive potential -- Carrick himself pointed out, regardless of his own prodigious strength, a larger person has larger reach and leverage and thus has a stronger stick).

4. The Leafs are working through some system adjustments this past stretch of games where they've run into a spate of trap/counter-attack systems either by design of the opponent (Ottawa, NJ) or circumstance of goaltending failures leading to early deficits (Carolina, Philadelphia), hence forcing stretch passes and Gardiner looking frustrating to some (no forward support = low percentage options).

5. Is Andersen working on some new mechanics? He looks a bit unsure, and as a result, slower to react naturally. Granted a good number of the goals against him lately are a result of the Leafs not effectively stifling the counter-attack system and giving up waaaaay more odd-man rushes than usual (hi Polak!).

6. The team getting knocked down a couple of pegs at the end of October after being annointed in the media as Cup-caliber after the first week or two of playing is probably for the best. Teams that waltz into the playoffs with no experience of working together through difficult times usually don't make it through the playoff grind of hard linematching and anti-strategy that comes with repeated encounters. The Leafs making the playoffs last year and nearly toppling the Capitals put the league on notice. No one is taking them lightly this year (the way we took New Jersey lightly) and everyone had lots of time to see how the Capitals neutralized our three-line attack (stuff the weak-link Bozak line) and transition speed advantage (NZ clog + counter attack).

Edit: in case anyone is wondering, I wrote the above before I read any of this: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/10/30/leafs-notebook-dissecting-frederik-andersens-slow-start-october-30/
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 30, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
1. JvR and Martin weren't playing below the coach's expectations, so sitting your veterans returning from minor injury in favour of the injury subs is a non-starter. Still, it'd be nice to shuffle some things around to get Leivo some playing time because anything less than 38 games played from here on out means Leivo walks as a UFA (and I doubt he'd stay).

Take a moment to appreciate the managerial wizardry here...

The Leafs will pass on the couple picks and prospect or two that their expiring UFAs would garner -- effectively deadline rentals in reverse -- and by playing those vets every game, regardless of performance (JvR not below expectation...?), convert a cost-controlled, NHL-ready winger into a UFA that'll walk... so they can... uh... win the Cup this year...?

It's a move that'd make some sense if the Leafs had an old core with NMCs and the window was closing... but it doesn't make any sense at this point.

If Leivo was a centre, he'd already be in over Bozak, who at this point in the season, is probably the player that has underperformed enough to warrant it... It's also hard to fault a management team giving development priority to their own picks/players.

I wonder if the Leafs have any other players in their system or even on their roster who can play center...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 08:42:50 PM
Remember when these game day threads were more fun and we discussed how Marleau's parents got to the game?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 09:17:14 PM
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 09:24:14 PM
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 10:26:00 PM
The question is: will Arn stay up all night to watch this?

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 10:34:20 PM
I've got the youtube link if anyone needs it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Rob on October 30, 2017, 10:38:36 PM
No pre-game nap, hopefully not a snoozer of a game.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: louisstamos on October 30, 2017, 10:41:50 PM
Is it me, or is the lighting...off?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Dappleganger on October 30, 2017, 10:42:43 PM
Are they filming this game with a potato?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 10:42:53 PM
I've got the youtube link if anyone needs it.

I'd like it, please!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 10:44:44 PM
Marner looks assertive.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 10:46:19 PM
Oh my Matthews stick handling clinic.

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 10:49:40 PM
Thanks disco!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 10:52:09 PM
Thanks disco!

You bet!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 30, 2017, 10:54:22 PM
Nice to see JVR comes back in the lineup and the Bozak line resumes getting hemmed in their own zone.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 10:56:01 PM
Nice to see JVR comes back in the lineup and the Bozak line resumes getting hemmed in their own zone.

Teams are stacking their top offensive options against them where possible.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 30, 2017, 10:56:44 PM
Nice to see JVR comes back in the lineup and the Bozak line resumes getting hemmed in their own zone.

Teams are stacking their top offensive options against them where possible.

What if they just switched Marleau and JVR?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Dappleganger on October 30, 2017, 10:57:15 PM
Polak looks like a guy who needs a conditioning stint.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 10:59:05 PM
There's just no easy games in this parity league anymore. Everyone's just so competitive.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 10:59:07 PM
Polak looks like a guy who needs a conditioning stint.

Yeah, I'm a defender of Roman but he looks slooow.  Coming back from that injury ... may not happen.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 10:59:39 PM
There's just no easy games in this parity league anymore. Everyone's just so competitive.

I was just thinking that too.  It seems like we play tough game after tough game.  Like that for everyone.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 11:02:15 PM
I love Nylander.

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:02:29 PM
Nylander should get 1.5 points on that assist.

EDIT: Haha he probably doesn't even get one.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
AUSTON and WILLY getting PAAAAAAAAAAID.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2017, 11:03:01 PM
That was nice.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 11:05:10 PM
Nylander nearly dangling the whole team on the next shift = 100
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:06:01 PM
Nylander nearly dangling the whole team on the next shift = 100

101 to be precise.  Wow.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:09:29 PM
Hainsey = bombs away
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 30, 2017, 11:14:07 PM
Martin with the nice penalty after the 4th line gets hemmed.  Good stuff.  Take notes Leivo. 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:15:25 PM
Marner.  Is.  Snakebit.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
That track meet to end the period is probably the best case scenario for the Bozak line.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 11:18:24 PM
Helluva feat by Marner to get two shots off that flip pass JVR. Jones being yuge.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 11:18:49 PM
Marner.  Is.  Snakebit.

Not snakebit that period was Andersen. The Sharks tossed a lot of muffins past the net.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: x.jr.benchwarmer on October 30, 2017, 11:20:52 PM
Another terrific period by Matthews and Nylander.

But with Babcock putting Polak and Borgman out for seemingly every third shift it is going to be a long game (certainly for us Leaf fans).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:29:27 PM
Good grief VGK.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: BrownRolo on October 30, 2017, 11:38:04 PM
If Leivo wants to make this team he is going to have to learn to not be good at hockey but be a gud pro. Maybe get married and have a couple of kids.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Dappleganger on October 30, 2017, 11:39:29 PM
Polak looks like a guy who needs a conditioning stint.

Yeah, I'm a defender of Roman but he looks slooow.  Coming back from that injury ... may not happen.

Just doesn't seem up to game speed. I mean, he was never fast to begin with but it looks mental.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:44:52 PM
Polak looks like a guy who needs a conditioning stint.

Yeah, I'm a defender of Roman but he looks slooow.  Coming back from that injury ... may not happen.

Just doesn't seem up to game speed. I mean, he was never fast to begin with but it looks mental.

I think he's faster than given credit for but not like that so far this year.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2017, 11:46:43 PM
That was far from the most dangerous looking of their shots from the blue line.   :(
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 30, 2017, 11:51:20 PM
San Jose pretty much only shoot from the blueline.

Zaitsev bumped down to 3rd pair btw with Borgman.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: BrownRolo on October 30, 2017, 11:54:31 PM
San Jose pretty much only shoot from the blueline.

Zaitsev bumped down to 3rd pair btw with Borgman.

So Polak bumped up? That makes sense. He has looked amazing tonight. You gotta reward your players.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 30, 2017, 11:58:32 PM
Patty close there. Would've been epic.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:08:07 AM
That period was 95% garbage, 5% Andersen.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Rob on October 31, 2017, 12:14:31 AM
Isn't that one of the Duck Dynasty dudes?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: x.jr.benchwarmer on October 31, 2017, 12:20:29 AM
San Jose pretty much only shoot from the blueline.

Zaitsev bumped down to 3rd pair btw with Borgman.

So Polak bumped up? That makes sense. He has looked amazing tonight. You gotta reward your players.

Very insightful analysis (Mr. Babcock). ;)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 31, 2017, 12:26:39 AM
The fourth line has been visited by the sisters from Shawshank tonight, let's hope they can fight back in the third.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 31, 2017, 12:30:55 AM
I guess not...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:31:06 AM
Angry Moore is awesome. Moore in the penalty box is not optimal though.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: x.jr.benchwarmer on October 31, 2017, 12:31:51 AM
Moore is not good enough to take a selfish penalty like that.  What does Babcock see in him?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:32:38 AM
For christ's sake.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:32:44 AM
Heed has been buzzing all night. He’s quite good.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 12:36:36 AM
Polak throws the puck into the slot right on the Sharks stick.

The Leafs abysmal in this game.  Good thing we kept Leivo's offense away from this game.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:37:08 AM
Polak with the beautiful feed.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Rob on October 31, 2017, 12:37:21 AM
Polak can take his $1 million bucks and go far far away.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 31, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
How many shots in last 26 minutes?

2? 3?

Edit: 2. Apparently it's 2.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:38:48 AM
How many shots in last 26 minutes?

2? 3?

2.  Babcock needs to rip these guys a new one.  absolute crap
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 31, 2017, 12:39:37 AM
This is embarrassing after the stretch they've gone through, the book is out on them, no stomach to fight through a hard NZ trap.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 31, 2017, 12:40:39 AM
How many shots in last 26 minutes?

2? 3?

2.  Babcock needs to rip these guys a new one.  absolute crap

I hope he does that thing where he ends practice and picks up pucks himself.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:43:17 AM
Looks like Bozak is down on the fourth line again as Brown was winging for Kadri (and promptly gets penalized)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 12:44:56 AM
Looks like Bozak is down on the fourth line again as Brown was winging for Kadri (and promptly gets penalized)

Bozak has been awful this year. 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:46:40 AM
Looks like Bozak is down on the fourth line again as Brown was winging for Kadri (and promptly gets penalized)

Bozak has been awful this year.

Except for faceoffs.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:47:23 AM
Andersen has looked spectacular. He was already on that one-timer before the pass even made it there.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:53:33 AM
Three line period now.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 12:56:20 AM
He does this a lot and it never gets remarked on but as Nylander was circling back with his defense, he skated in front of his man and slowed down on the curl to lightly impede the forecheck.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 01:00:13 AM
That's about the 50th icing from the Sharks this period.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 01:01:32 AM
Brilliant.  Can't win a f/o in and into the empty.  Total garbage.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 01:02:25 AM
I'm going to enjoy Leivo sitting as punishment for this game.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 01:03:35 AM
Mm Borgman

I thought he’s been holding back on his shot this stretch aiming for more control.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 01:03:41 AM
Woohoo borgman. 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 31, 2017, 01:04:36 AM
Well... tomorrow, the sun will rise. 6-1 to start, then 1-4. Everyone plays the Toronto Maple Leafs hard now, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 01:05:20 AM
Y’all should love Hyman more.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 01:07:53 AM
I chided grieves about ragging on Babcock but this team looks real Carlyle right now and the coaching isn't helping.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: disco on October 31, 2017, 01:08:10 AM
Still a helluva lot of pieces here. We've got a lot to be thankful for. In this for the long haul.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 01:08:34 AM
Definitely deserved the loss but really nice to see them make a fight of it once they benched their terrible performers.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 31, 2017, 01:08:43 AM
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But Leivo isn't good enough.

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 31, 2017, 01:14:27 AM
I think there is a difference between being upset with the decisions that the coach is making, and claiming that they are a glorified motivational speaker.  I don't think that Babcock got dumber between this year and last.

If by "got dumber" you think I mean he's suffered severe head trauma or developed early-onset dementia, no. Obviously not.

But not-dumb people sure can get stupid when they see something they want, think they can get it easy.

Treasure of Sierra Madre sorta thing on Bay Street, I guess.


If Leivo wants to make this team he is going to have to learn to not be good at hockey but be a gud pro. Maybe get married and have a couple of kids.

It is very weird how assumptions about domestic stability and spreading of the seed play into hiring and promotion decisions, even supposedly progressive professions. I say this as someone who's certainly benefited from it.

Hockey, of course, isn't a very progressive profession. But the appeal of sports is that clear performance demands can make it a true meritocracy...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: mr grieves on October 31, 2017, 01:22:57 AM
I chided grieves about ragging on Babcock but this team looks real Carlyle right now and the coaching isn't helping.

Speaking of the Carlyle era...

Did you notice the game's call had weird echoes of the last decade?

Team's getting caved in, nothing's happening, somehow hanging on but we know what the result is... announcers grasping at straws to make the game seem more competitive, closer than it is.

Good times.

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 08:00:43 AM
Invalid Tweet ID

Wow.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 08:07:59 AM
So let's get our guesses in now. Who thinks that Martin sits on Wednesday? I'm still saying no.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 08:16:02 AM
So let's get our guesses in now. Who thinks that Martin sits on Wednesday? I'm still saying no.

Bozak will sit and Marleau will play center while Leivo gets into a game.   It's deserved but Martin getting a guaranteed spot is absurd at this point.  He's a useless loaf on the ice.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Bullfrog on October 31, 2017, 08:16:27 AM
I didn't see the game. Is there a reason Kadri got less than 13 minutes?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 08:19:05 AM
I didn't see the game. Is there a reason Kadri got less than 13 minutes?

?Babsock 

Komarov was bad.  Kadri was kind of silent but hardly a standout for poor play in the game.  Bozak/JVR were awful.  The 4th line was awful.  This probably should have been a 2-line game but really only the Matthews line did anything positive in terms of play.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 31, 2017, 09:37:52 AM
So let's get our guesses in now. Who thinks that Martin sits on Wednesday? I'm still saying no.

I mean, Babcock has a history of success in the league, he can't be stupid can he?  Can he??  If everyone watching the games sees that guys like Martin and Polak are bad, doesn't he see the same thing?  I'm saying it right here, they aren't real gud players and their drive trains are broken.  They're the opposite of real gud pros, they're real bad players.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 31, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
I didn't see the game. Is there a reason Kadri got less than 13 minutes?

?Babsock 

Komarov was bad.  Kadri was kind of silent but hardly a standout for poor play in the game.  Bozak/JVR were awful.  The 4th line was awful.  This probably should have been a 2-line game but really only the Matthews line did anything positive in terms of play.

I agree with all of this.  Komarov stopped momentum on a couple of plays by making the wrong play and coughing the puck up.  Also, Gardiner is making some really weird decisions with the puck. 

They are out of sync for sure.  Marner loses the puck with regularity now.  It's like he is trying to do something flashy on every play rather than taking his time to make the right play.

Part of it may be that the team is trying to commit to defence, but doesn't know how to do that and still generate offense.  They are so used to just blowing the zone the minute they get the puck, that they seem to be going more east-west now instead of north-south.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Coco-puffs on October 31, 2017, 10:03:51 AM
I didn't see the game. Is there a reason Kadri got less than 13 minutes?

?Babsock 

Komarov was bad.  Kadri was kind of silent but hardly a standout for poor play in the game.  Bozak/JVR were awful.  The 4th line was awful.  This probably should have been a 2-line game but really only the Matthews line did anything positive in terms of play.

Komarov was bad?  18-8 shot attempts (69% CF), 6-5 Shots.  Yeah, in a game where our team was outshot badly Komarov was a positive.  Kadri wasn't far behind (20-10 shot attempts, 7-7 shots). 

On another note: For all the praise the Matthews line got, yes, they were positive in the shot attempt battle (22-20 for Matthews, Nylander was better at 23-17)... but they only got 4 of those 22 shot attempts on net.  12 of them were blocked.  Why?  They were hard matched against Vlasic-Braun, probably the best shutdown pair in the league. Man would a pair like that be nice on the Leafs.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 31, 2017, 10:14:19 AM
They had better fix it and win next game, I don't like losing to Carlyle's face.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 10:27:06 AM
All this stuff about Leivo and Martin is really hiding the fact that Carrick is in the process of being Corrado'd. I think I'll be more ticked off if he's sitting next game than I would be if Leivo is.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
MSM coming at this now:

Quote
Leivo had a fantastic game against Carolina. Kapanen didn't play much. Neither is a centre, and the Leafs don't have a great deal of depth at centre. But if Marleau can play a bit of centre -- he used to be a centre, and certainly has the speed for it -- then perhaps it's time to sit Bozak for a few games, and see what Leivo, or Kapanen, can do.

This is not to say Bozak has hit the end of the line. There could be an injury at play. Or a private matter. Or a kink in his game that practice time will help.

No question the Leafs will be better if Bozak is better. But if this team is a meritocracy, as Babcock has suggested, then there are players that merit a chance to play ahead of Bozak.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2017/10/31/tyler-bozak-s-woes-could-translate-to-bench-time.html

Zero mention of Martin, but baby steps I guess.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 11:15:47 AM
Looks like I made the right decision choosing sleep over what was clearly a mess of a game.

Changes clearly need to be made to something. Would love to see Bozak, Martin, and Polak out; Leivo, Kapanen (or even Fehr), and Carrick in . . . but, I know that's not happening.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Andy on October 31, 2017, 11:22:44 AM
I'd be surprised to see Bozak scratched but pushing him to the 4th line and spreading Matthews, Nylander and Marner across the first 3 lines looks pretty good:

JVR       Matthews    Brown
Leivo      Kadri         Nylander
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Hyman    Bozak      Komarov
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 11:30:20 AM
I'd be surprised to see Bozak scratched but pushing him to the 4th line and spreading Matthews, Nylander and Marner across the first 3 lines looks pretty good:

JVR       Matthews    Brown
Leivo      Kadri         Nylander
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Hyman    Bozak      Komarov

I'd be hesitant to split up Matthews and Nylander - they're the only combo that seems to be working on a consistent basis.

Flip Nylander with Brown, and I think you've got something interesting going on.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 11:43:48 AM
I'd be hesitant to split up Matthews and Nylander - they're the only combo that seems to be working on a consistent basis.

Flip Nylander with Brown, and I think you've got something interesting going on.

I've been thinking about splitting them up too. Yes, they're great together, but they could also be great on their own too. I mean I think it's worth a shot at least. It's not like trying them on separate lines for a few games would make their chemistry disappear if we needed to put them back together. And they'd still play together on the PP, plus on post-PK shifts too.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 31, 2017, 11:47:38 AM
Borgman credited with the goal that was given to Kadri in the game last night.

I initially thought it was Borgman's goal and he celebrated like it was.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 11:59:32 AM
Borgman credited with the goal that was given to Kadri in the game last night.

I initially thought it was Borgman's goal and he celebrated like it was.

Invalid Tweet IDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmihcdwSZb8

I think Kadri's reaction says it all. Replays from behind Borgman don't really show the puck changing direction from deflection.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Arn on October 31, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
The question is: will Arn stay up all night to watch this?

The clocks changed here at the weekend, so it was an hour earlier start than it might have been, but I failed miserably despite my attempts. I tried to sleep early and wake up, but I forgot to do the waking up bit
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zee on October 31, 2017, 12:11:27 PM
I'd be surprised to see Bozak scratched but pushing him to the 4th line and spreading Matthews, Nylander and Marner across the first 3 lines looks pretty good:

JVR       Matthews    Brown
Leivo      Kadri         Nylander
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Hyman    Bozak      Komarov

Flip Brown with Nylander and I'm on board.

Actually just noticed that Hyman is on the 4th, that'll never happen.  So it's more realistic:
Hyman      Matthews    Nylander
JVR      Kadri         Brown
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Leivo Bozak      Komarov
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: cabber24 on October 31, 2017, 12:16:16 PM
Included in the top 50 career worst active +/-: Bozak -93,  Hainsey -71, Rielly -69, Martin -49, and JVR -41.

Honorable mentions: Lupul -79, Clarkson -66, and Kessel -64.

Yakupov is an impressive -88 in just 303 games.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Andy on October 31, 2017, 12:29:58 PM
I'd be surprised to see Bozak scratched but pushing him to the 4th line and spreading Matthews, Nylander and Marner across the first 3 lines looks pretty good:

JVR       Matthews    Brown
Leivo      Kadri         Nylander
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Hyman    Bozak      Komarov

Flip Brown with Nylander and I'm on board.

Actually just noticed that Hyman is on the 4th, that'll never happen.  So it's more realistic:
Hyman      Matthews    Nylander
JVR      Kadri         Brown
Kapanen Marleau     Marner
Leivo Bozak      Komarov

That looks quite nice too. I still don't quite understand Hyman being an absolute lock on the 1st line but if that means Martin is out of the lineup, well I can certainly live with it.

Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:38:26 PM
I chided grieves about ragging on Babcock but this team looks real Carlyle right now and the coaching isn't helping.

Speaking of the Carlyle era...

Did you notice the game's call had weird echoes of the last decade?

Team's getting caved in, nothing's happening, somehow hanging on but we know what the result is... announcers grasping at straws to make the game seem more competitive, closer than it is.

Good times.

More like a preview of hell.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:42:08 PM
The question is: will Arn stay up all night to watch this?

The clocks changed here at the weekend, so it was an hour earlier start than it might have been, but I failed miserably despite my attempts. I tried to sleep early and wake up, but I forgot to do the waking up bit

A genius move on your part.  The game was abysmal, the least entertaining since before Matthews.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
Look, playing around with the forward lines is fine and all but the defense is the crying need.  Rielly and Gardiner are inconsistent at best and probably always will be, Zaitsev is going through a similar patch, and as a top 3 they are not going to play a shutdown game.  Hainsey is OK on the bottom pairing, Polak looks done, Borgman needs seasoning.  At the very least Carrick should be in for Polak.  The fact of the matter is that, even when the offense is flying, Doughty is right.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Coco-puffs on October 31, 2017, 12:54:12 PM
I will continue to say that Komarov is our best defensive forward, and having him on our fourth line is a waste.  Why have him out there trying to "stop" the other team's 4th line from scoring? 

And as much as Hyman lacks the passing skill and finish to be considered a top-6 forward, he really does create a ton of space for our skill players out there.  My lines, if I were given the reins behind the bench.

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
JvR - Nylander - Hyman
Leivo - Bozak - Kapanen

Was really tempted to swap JvR and Leivo too... imagine having JvR and Bozak on your 4th line?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 12:54:20 PM
Look, playing around with the forward lines is fine and all but the defense is the crying need.  Rielly and Gardiner are inconsistent at best and probably always will be, Zaitsev is going through a similar patch, and as a top 3 they are not going to play a shutdown game.  Hainsey is OK on the bottom pairing, Polak looks done, Borgman needs seasoning.  At the very least Carrick should be in for Polak.  The fact of the matter is that, even when the offense is flying, Doughty is right.

The forwards are a big part of the issue with the defence, though. They're not doing their part in the defensive end well enough, they're not providing quality passing options to help them get out the zone with the puck, etc. Obviously, that's not all about the line combinations, but, there are certain groups who are worse than others, and they need to be split up and put on lines with forwards who understand the importance of defensive responsibility.

Honestly, changing the makeup of the backend isn't going to make a significant difference at this point. They're the lesser of the two evils right now - though, I agree that Polak needs to be removed from the situation. That would probably be the extent of the changes I'd make right now.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 12:56:02 PM
imagine having JvR and Bozak on your 4th line?

Those two need to separated until they both learn how to be defensively responsible. I don't care what line they're on, if they're together, it's not going to be pretty when the puck ends up in the Leafs' end.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Andy on October 31, 2017, 12:57:18 PM
Okay, JVR to Philly for their 1st; Philly's 1st, Our 2019 1st, Brooks and Dermott to Fla for Ekblad. Carrick in for Polak, Hainsey to the bottom pairing. Done.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 01:00:15 PM
I've posted some of my preferred forward combinations lately, so here's what my defence would look like:

Gardiner-Rielly
Hainsey-Zaitsev
Marincin-Carrick

Yeah, that's right, I'm still on #TeamMarty.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 01:03:14 PM
Honestly, changing the makeup of the backend isn't going to make a significant difference at this point. They're the lesser of the two evils right now - though, I agree that Polak needs to be removed from the situation. That would probably be the extent of the changes I'd make right now.

Yeah, I think that we're all focusing more on the forwards right now because there's nothing that can really be done with the defence right now. I think we all recognize the need for another top-4 righty, and I imagine/hope the Leafs do too, but until that happens no amount of shuffling is going to make our top-6 defence elite.

We should have the best forward group in the entire league though as far as I'm concerned. Or at least top-5. So they have to start playing like it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 01:05:18 PM
Yeah, that's right, I'm still on #TeamMarty.

I thought it was #TeamMarMar

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/34f122b677ecc0a8f770dec93b52808d/tumblr_n2m5jvAqXg1r95nllo4_r2_500.gif)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 01:06:53 PM
I thought it was #TeamMarMar

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/34f122b677ecc0a8f770dec93b52808d/tumblr_n2m5jvAqXg1r95nllo4_r2_500.gif)

I'll put that up for debate at our next council meeting.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 02:06:43 PM
Look, playing around with the forward lines is fine and all but the defense is the crying need.  Rielly and Gardiner are inconsistent at best and probably always will be, Zaitsev is going through a similar patch, and as a top 3 they are not going to play a shutdown game.  Hainsey is OK on the bottom pairing, Polak looks done, Borgman needs seasoning.  At the very least Carrick should be in for Polak.  The fact of the matter is that, even when the offense is flying, Doughty is right.

The forwards are a big part of the issue with the defence, though. They're not doing their part in the defensive end well enough, they're not providing quality passing options to help them get out the zone with the puck, etc. Obviously, that's not all about the line combinations, but, there are certain groups who are worse than others, and they need to be split up and put on lines with forwards who understand the importance of defensive responsibility.

Honestly, changing the makeup of the backend isn't going to make a significant difference at this point. They're the lesser of the two evils right now - though, I agree that Polak needs to be removed from the situation. That would probably be the extent of the changes I'd make right now.

Points taken but I still think the skill level of the D is not going to get us where we need to go.  The top 3 are not good enough (at least not consistently so).

EDIT: and just read Carlton's post.  Yeah.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 02:20:32 PM
Points taken but I still think the skill level of the D is not going to get us where we need to go.  The top 3 are not good enough (at least not consistently so).

There's probably some truth there. I'm just not having a great time evaluating them fairly when the forwards are putting them in bad positions and not shouldering their share of the load defensively. It's having a negative impact on their performance - and especially on their ability to be consistent.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
Praise be

Moore and Polak are the odd-men out.

So they are:
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 04:29:58 PM
Leivo getting the matchup line duties over Marner/Brown is quite a sight. Probably has something to do with a back to back against ANA/LA bruisers.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2017, 04:40:38 PM
Leivo getting the matchup line duties over Marner/Brown is quite a sight. Probably has something to do with a back to back against ANA/LA bruisers.

Most of that stretch last year where Leivo racked up points came on the Kadri and Komarov line.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 04:58:51 PM
Praise be

Moore and Polak are the odd-men out.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad, I guess.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on October 31, 2017, 04:59:27 PM
1.5 out of 3 ain't bad, I guess.

That's loser talk.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Highlander on October 31, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
It's a huge move in the right direction.  Lets trade Bozak for a good Mr. Coffee machine, put Fehr back in a 4th Centre and drop, Moore and Polak as well.
It seems we were playing and winning with Fehr and Carrick in the lineup. 
Polak gets rewarded with a Million for his broken leg and thanks for the effort. Perhaps a coaching role with the Marlies.
And finally Leivo gets to play cause he has earned it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: L K on October 31, 2017, 07:04:03 PM
Martin deserves his cemented spot for all the hypothetical fights he prevents.  Compare it to McDavid who has been murdered 11 times this year alone.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 07:19:13 PM
Martin deserves his cemented spot for all the hypothetical fights he prevents.  Compare it to McDavid who has been murdered 11 times this year alone.

This made me laugh aloud.

Responding back to Highlander, Bozak deserves his demotion but do keep in mind he's been a very good faceoff man.  In the olden days (like, what, 2 yrs ago) they kept a guy on the roster just to do that.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Andy on October 31, 2017, 07:44:11 PM
Martin deserves his cemented spot for all the hypothetical fights he prevents.  Compare it to McDavid who has been murdered 11 times this year alone.

This made me laugh aloud.

Responding back to Highlander, Bozak deserves his demotion but do keep in mind he's been a very good faceoff man.  In the olden days (like, what, 2 yrs ago) they kept a guy on the roster just to do that.

That's true but this year Kadri has a better percentage than him and Matthews, Nylander, Moore and Marner are all over 50%. He's becoming more and more antiquated.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on October 31, 2017, 11:13:20 PM
Responding back to Highlander, Bozak deserves his demotion but do keep in mind he's been a very good faceoff man.  In the olden days (like, what, 2 yrs ago) they kept a guy on the roster just to do that.

We've learned a few things since then - namely, what you do after the faceoff is significantly more important than the faceoff itself. Bozak hasn't been particularly good at that so far this season. He doesn't deserve a spot on the roster because he wins one more faceoffs than the average player every second game (which is roughly what his faceoff prowess so far this season works out to be - even at his best, it really only works out to one faceoff win above average per game).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Responding back to Highlander, Bozak deserves his demotion but do keep in mind he's been a very good faceoff man.  In the olden days (like, what, 2 yrs ago) they kept a guy on the roster just to do that.

We've learned a few things since then - namely, what you do after the faceoff is significantly more important than the faceoff itself. Bozak hasn't been particularly good at that so far this season. He doesn't deserve a spot on the roster because he wins one more faceoffs than the average player every second game (which is roughly what his faceoff prowess so far this season works out to be - even at his best, it really only works out to one faceoff win above average per game).

The other day when I checked he was 38th in the league, kadri was like 32 or something.  Not like he's worthless.  But, like I said, he deserves the demotion, just like Marner did.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 01, 2017, 02:48:14 AM
I chided grieves about ragging on Babcock but this team looks real Carlyle right now and the coaching isn't helping.

Speaking of the Carlyle era...

Did you notice the game's call had weird echoes of the last decade?

Team's getting caved in, nothing's happening, somehow hanging on but we know what the result is... announcers grasping at straws to make the game seem more competitive, closer than it is.

Good times.

More like a preview of hell.


I watched most of the game and something looked eerily familiar...now that you mention it, the Carlyle era...that thought crossed my mind.  Nah, it was a Halloween joke.  Ha!ha! No kidding! (seriously).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: bustaheims on November 01, 2017, 07:43:31 AM
The other day when I checked he was 38th in the league, kadri was like 32 or something.  Not like he's worthless.  But, like I said, he deserves the demotion, just like Marner did.

Maybe not, but the thing he does well isn't really that valuable, so . . .
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: AvroArrow on November 01, 2017, 07:52:34 AM
Yeah, Bozak gotsta go.  I'd much rather have a Brian Boyle type player at this point.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Sharks - Oct. 30th, 10:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050
Post by: herman on November 01, 2017, 09:19:47 AM
Getzlaf is on the IR.
Gibson took a puck to the giblets (or maybe the jib) yesterday so I don't know if he's good to go.
Vatanen is still out from shoulder surgery and Lindholm is only playing his 5th game of the season after the same surgery.

The Leafs have a really good shot at the Ducks tonight.