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sens vs. Maple Leafs - Feb. 10th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

Started by CarltonTheBear, February 09, 2024, 11:35:02 PM

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cabber24

An in-person hearing is ridiculous. Comprehending how they discipline is impossible.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Nik

Quote from: Chris on February 12, 2024, 11:57:24 AMHe should have just jumped him, pushed him into the boards, punched him or cross checked him in the waist area. But he didn't - he led with his stick up high. Regardless of whether Grieg's arm helped the stick run up into his neck area, the initial contact was too high and potentially dangerous.

I don't know if I like that take either though. Just about every single hit, clean or dirty, is "potentially dangerous". I think the fact that he didn't get hurt should actually be the deciding factor. I don't think Rielly hit him hard enough, or hit him in the sort of way, where a serious injury could or should be reasonably expected.

It was the wrong thing to do, no doubt, but more than a couple of games for this to me, I think, would be less about what Rielly actually did and more about using this as an example to "send a message".
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

I don't get at all the take that this can't be analogized to what happens in the "real world."  Huh?  What "world" are sports part of, if not this one?

When you consent to play a sport with violent collisions and an inherent risk of injury from them doesn't mean you are consenting to be attacked and hit in the head with a stick in an event that is totally outside the course of play.  It also doesn't make it magically right if your assailant meant to hit you the waist instead.

Chris

Quote from: Nik on February 12, 2024, 12:47:18 PM
Quote from: Chris on February 12, 2024, 11:57:24 AMHe should have just jumped him, pushed him into the boards, punched him or cross checked him in the waist area. But he didn't - he led with his stick up high. Regardless of whether Grieg's arm helped the stick run up into his neck area, the initial contact was too high and potentially dangerous.

I don't know if I like that take either though. Just about every single hit, clean or dirty, is "potentially dangerous". I think the fact that he didn't get hurt should actually be the deciding factor. I don't think Rielly hit him hard enough, or hit him in the sort of way, where a serious injury could or should be reasonably expected.

It was the wrong thing to do, no doubt, but more than a couple of games for this to me, I think, would be less about what Rielly actually did and more about using this as an example to "send a message".

OK, how about "potentially more dangerous" or "potentially very dangerous" or "more likely to cause serious injury." Pick whatever language suits you, but there are good reasons why there are rules in place against certain types of hits (hits from behind, boarding, spearing etc). The fact that Grieg doesn't appear to have been injured should be factored in, but the high cross-check certainly had more potential to cause serious injury than the typical body check.

Personal opinion, he should get 3 games or so. I expect he'll get 6.

 

Dappleganger

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_pissed_off on February 12, 2024, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Bender on February 12, 2024, 11:10:04 AM
Quote from: Rob on February 12, 2024, 11:03:44 AMIf you watch the replay in slow-Mo (pun intended) you can see the principal point of contact is Greig's arm.  Greig raises his arm, directing Reilly's stick up and into his head.

This was mentioned up thread by another poster, I feel it needs to be reiterated because Rielly didn't skate over and give Greig a two hander over the head. 

https://youtu.be/QW1pqSHmMzY?si=ApYJmTnIgFmmF2AX&t=103

If you watch that clip in 0.25 super slo-Mo (again pun intended) it gives a good view. 

The guys at 32 Thoughts give a pretty fair and clear headed take on this, and that's all that needs be said really.

Ha, I'm listening now and Elliotte says Rielly should have just punched him in the face too.

Intigator penalty with less than 5 minutes left in the game is an automatic 1 game suspension?

Frank E

It's the NHL, so he'll get 2 games, or 5, or 8, and I won't be surprised by any of it because the NHL doles out suspensions with the predictability of a drunk aligator.

Rielly could use a little break before the stretch anyways, so whatever.

Bill_Berg_is_pissed_off

Quote from: Dappleganger on February 12, 2024, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_pissed_off on February 12, 2024, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: Bender on February 12, 2024, 11:10:04 AM
Quote from: Rob on February 12, 2024, 11:03:44 AMIf you watch the replay in slow-Mo (pun intended) you can see the principal point of contact is Greig's arm.  Greig raises his arm, directing Reilly's stick up and into his head.

This was mentioned up thread by another poster, I feel it needs to be reiterated because Rielly didn't skate over and give Greig a two hander over the head. 

https://youtu.be/QW1pqSHmMzY?si=ApYJmTnIgFmmF2AX&t=103

If you watch that clip in 0.25 super slo-Mo (again pun intended) it gives a good view. 

The guys at 32 Thoughts give a pretty fair and clear headed take on this, and that's all that needs be said really.

Ha, I'm listening now and Elliotte says Rielly should have just punched him in the face too.

Intigator penalty with less than 5 minutes left in the game is an automatic 1 game suspension?


Maybe, I'm not sure, but 1 is better than 6+!

Guilt Trip

#157
This made me laugh...said it before, nobody in that room will have an issue with Rielly.

https://twitter.com/sunhornby/status/1757105646518821229

Zee

Quote from: Guilt Trip on February 12, 2024, 01:59:24 PMThis made me laugh...said it before, nobody in that room will have an issue with Rielly.

https://twitter.com/sunhornby/status/1757105646518821229

I wonder if taking a clapper on an empty net is better or worse than touching someone else's water bottle

Nik

Quote from: Chris on February 12, 2024, 01:30:06 PMOK, how about "potentially more dangerous" or "potentially very dangerous" or "more likely to cause serious injury." Pick whatever language suits you, but there are good reasons why there are rules in place against certain types of hits (hits from behind, boarding, spearing etc). The fact that Grieg doesn't appear to have been injured should be factored in, but the high cross-check certainly had more potential to cause serious injury than the typical body check.

I wasn't trying to get into semantics here. I was just making the point that any kind of hit has the potential to be all manner of dangerous based on things outside of the hitter's control. I think the fact that Greig didn't get seriously hurt suggests that while it may have looked bad, I don't think Rielly really intended to hurt him even in the sort of fog of war that you can attribute to pretty clear cases of intent to injure. Obviously the NHL has rules against cross checking for good reason but I think we can all tell the difference between the really bad examples and the less bad examples and I was just saying that I thought this was the latter.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

cw

Rielly hearing is tomorrow at 1pm in New York

Perron cross check looks worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrL5_6aMxRk&ab_channel=ToughCall
The player Perron hit, Zub, was completely innocent of the Larkin injury

Here's the ruling in that case
https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/PerronRuling.pdf

I suspect Rielly's suspension will be a little less than Perron's.

Rielly will lose $39,000 for each game suspended

herman

Quote from: Frank E on February 12, 2024, 01:42:07 PMRielly could use a little break before the stretch anyways, so whatever.

Yes, but like recovering from an injury, there is a potential for a compensation injury as a result. Rielly is one of the more physically and cardiovascularly durable d-men on the team. It's everyone else that now needs to soak up 25-min in some fashion that will pick up more wear. Definitely need to sit and cycle them more frequently once everyone is back (see Lagesson lagging).
#27

princedpw

Quote from: Bender on February 12, 2024, 09:16:05 AM
Quote from: princedpw on February 11, 2024, 05:56:56 PMViolence against others is not ok, even when your feelings are hurt.  NHL players and coaches are horrendous role models in this respect.

My girlfriend said some mean things about me so I punched her in the face and broke her arm.  Her fault.  She shouldn't have said it.

This take is so confusing. Why are you conflating actual purposefully violent sports that consenting adults engage in vs. spousal abuse? All MMA fighters should be given life sentences in your world.

I probably shouldn't have used such an extreme example.  You are right - it is different than spousal abuse because the NHL has normalized fighting. (In my opinion, it is unethical for the NHL to have done so.)

Fighting and attempting to injure is not part of the game of hockey.  The incident is against the rules and happened after the game is over.  But the NHL promotes the idea that violence is a just response to having one's feelings hurt. It is too similar to the kind of thing that happens outside a bar at 1am.  Men defending their honor with fists.

It seems somewhat different than MMA where the "game" is fighting (as opposed to the game isn't fighting but you get made and attack someone.). Having said that, I don't at all like the notion that people enjoy watching others get beat up, but it's a little different.

Peter D.

The more I think about the whole thing, the more I believe Rielly will definitely get a bit of a break, but the book won't be thrown at him.  3 or 4 games.

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Peter D. on February 12, 2024, 11:04:54 PMThe more I think about the whole thing, the more I believe Rielly will definitely get a bit of a break, but the book won't be thrown at him.  3 or 4 games.

I'm genuinely unsure if there's ever been an in-person hearing done that resulted in less than 6 games. Maybe, with a super convincing case, Rielly's camp can get it talked down to 5 but that feels like the minimum really.