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2024 Blue Jays

Started by Arn, December 05, 2023, 08:35:47 AM

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OldTimeHockey

Something has to happen with this team right? A trade? A firing? A demotion? All 3?

Bill_Berg


OldTimeHockey

I tuned in for about 6 seconds last night. Just as the pitcher was serving up a meatball for the 2 run shot that made it 7-0.
The look of absolute defeat on Schneider and Walker's face was so very telling of the atmosphere around this team right now.

bustaheims

Schneider, Atkins, and Shapiro all need to go. They're responsible for the main facets of this mess - the flawed roster and the poor in-game decisions - and I don't trust them to be part of the solution.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Dappleganger


Bender

Quote from: bustaheims on June 05, 2024, 09:12:01 AMSchneider, Atkins, and Shapiro all need to go. They're responsible for the main facets of this mess - the flawed roster and the poor in-game decisions - and I don't trust them to be part of the solution.

The fact that Schneider is still here is baffling.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

L K

Schneider tipping his hat to the opposing team over and over again is getting tiring.  They stink and they are doing nothing.  I think this roster is not a coaching change away from being fixed, but they need to start sorting guys out now. It's two consecutive years of the team being dreadful at generating runs.

cabber24

Jays just posted to Facebook to vote them into the All-Star game!?!?! LOL.

Seriously, though it's a tough watch. I was perfectly content watching them when they were supposed to suck for decades but now I was told that they were supposed to be good and it's unbearable to watch a team at this salary stink this bad. There is no storyline to route for. The game has also changed for the worse. I enjoyed "small ball" and the manufacturing of runs and now it's the HR or nothing. I have never watched so little baseball in my life.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Frank E

Quote from: Bender on June 05, 2024, 09:29:06 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 05, 2024, 09:12:01 AMSchneider, Atkins, and Shapiro all need to go. They're responsible for the main facets of this mess - the flawed roster and the poor in-game decisions - and I don't trust them to be part of the solution.

The fact that Schneider is still here is baffling.

I think Schneider is a puppet.  I don't think this is on him...this is on Shapiro and Atkins.

IJustLurkHere

I'm all for GM's being boring, and most of the bets Shapiro & Atkins have made were individually defensible at the time, but at some point, if all your bets keep losing, responsibility lies with the one placing the bets.

Tougher to parse coaching, the single biggest failing of the Jays is hitting and I doubt Schneider is hands on with the hitters. Team has Guererro, Bichette, Springer and Turner, and their only .800+ OPS hitter is Danny Jansen. Keirmayer and Kirk are both <.600.

Which begs the question, who IS hands on with hitters? Is it Guillermo Martinez? over the offseason when Mattingly's role was expanded, Martinez seemed to be the fall guy for 2023... but they kept him. Is it Mattingly himself? Joined in Nov '22 - when Bo, Vladdy, Springer were all .800+ OPS guys. Is it someone else? What has changed in the Jays hitting process since the end of 2022?

All of which is to say that if Shapiro and Atkins are to stay, the Jays batting lineup needs to go from "aw shucks, what happened?!" to actually being good. I may not have insight the Jays hitting coaching, but they sure should, and something needs to change.


Highlander

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Arn

Quote from: Frank E on June 05, 2024, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 05, 2024, 09:29:06 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 05, 2024, 09:12:01 AMSchneider, Atkins, and Shapiro all need to go. They're responsible for the main facets of this mess - the flawed roster and the poor in-game decisions - and I don't trust them to be part of the solution.

The fact that Schneider is still here is baffling.

I think Schneider is a puppet.  I don't think this is on him...this is on Shapiro and Atkins.

I do wonder if a more "loose" manager could do more with the roster. I feel like they're too mechanical. This roster needs someone who can get them playing with a swagger and confidence.

But I think you're right that that comes down from higher than the manager. 
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

Arn

From The Athletic:

QuoteBlue Jays GM Ross Atkins doesn't think it makes sense to trade shortstop Bo Bichette and/or first baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. because he'd much rather sign both to long-term extensions. However, if the Blue Jays can't do that by the trade deadline, they'd be foolish not to shop both. One rival executive believes a deadline trade involving either one will only happen if Atkins is replaced.

I dunno what the answer is. Maybe that last line.
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

bustaheims

Quote from: Arn on June 11, 2024, 04:43:10 AMFrom The Athletic:

QuoteBlue Jays GM Ross Atkins doesn't think it makes sense to trade shortstop Bo Bichette and/or first baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. because he'd much rather sign both to long-term extensions. However, if the Blue Jays can't do that by the trade deadline, they'd be foolish not to shop both. One rival executive believes a deadline trade involving either one will only happen if Atkins is replaced.

I dunno what the answer is. Maybe that last line.

I'm no fan of Atkins, but I don't think he's necessary wrong here. Get a new manager, new batting coach, etc., and let's see if they can get things going. Vladdy has been much better of late and Bo has shown some signs of turning it around. Both are still capable of being part of a championship calibre core. The rest of the offence needs a pretty serious overhaul, though. This trade deadline could represent a real opportunity for the team to replenish their farm system, and they should really move anyone who isn't under team control next season.

Atkins and Shapiro need to go, though.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan