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sens @ Maple Leafs - Nov. 8th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

Started by CarltonTheBear, November 07, 2023, 09:13:03 PM

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Zee

Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Yeah I don't get this. Woll is literally the least of the issues, one bad game I'm not worried about. The bigger issue is an unplayable 4th line, all the forwards that were brought in can't defend and the big defense signing of the summer can't play in his own end

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:37:26 PM
Quote from: Peter D. on November 08, 2023, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: Joe on November 08, 2023, 09:32:39 PMI hope everyone who wanted to shoot Holl into the sun are happy with the alternative.

I'd say Giordano actually looking like he is 40 and Brodie falling off a cliff is much more contributory to the team's issues than replacing a stiff in Holl with another stiff in Klingberg.

This is Giordano's first noticeably bad game of the season. 
Well I'd argue that. He's had a few off games so far.
Quote from: Peter D. on November 08, 2023, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: Joe on November 08, 2023, 09:32:39 PMI hope everyone who wanted to shoot Holl into the sun are happy with the alternative.

I'd say Giordano actually looking like he is 40 and Brodie falling off a cliff is much more contributory to the team's issues than replacing a stiff in Holl with another stiff in Klingberg.
They're missing Holl on the PK and having McCabe and Liljegren out is def hurting them.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zee on November 08, 2023, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Yeah I don't get this. Woll is literally the least of the issues, one bad game I'm not worried about. The bigger issue is an unplayable 4th line, all the forwards that were brought in can't defend and the big defense signing of the summer can't play in his own end
Woll overall has been good to very good.

azzurri63

I'm not concerned with Woll. He's still learning getting his feet wet but watching him his calmness he'll be fine. Samsonov forget it. Again there's a reason why Caps let him go. We have some injuries on the backend so this sh*t is going to happen until we get guys back or better yet a trade to bring somebody in because even with our full lineup the D sucks.

Zee

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

All those other games were terrible team defense. There aren't goals in there you can blame the goalie on. Tonight there was.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.
No kidding. Some like to overreact....it's actually pretty comical.

Thanks anti-azzuri.  Love your objectivity.  Just because you want everything to be positive doesn't make it positive.  A person who never wants to see flaws in something can be annoying too as well as comical.
Where did I say they didn't have flaws? They do but the overreactions after goals/losses by some here is funny as hell. Trade everyone, team's embarrassing, failed prospect, etc., etc.

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.

Look, we've seen this play out before, many times.  Pogge, Gustavson, Reimer, Sparks...and the list goes on.  Sure other teams get good goalies that come up from the minors and do amazing this.  I get how Leafs fans think it's possible, but  this is the Leafs though.  That doesn't happen for this team.  Why would it?

Can you tell me that you looked at his game tonight and think that Woll is destined to become a top 15 goalie in the League?  If we can all jump on the bandwagon after 2 good games, why and I not able to remove the screws from the wheels on said bandwagon after three really bad games? 

He's young, a rookie.  The promise you see is his frame, flexibility, and positioning.  I have no idea whether he'll pan out as a top 15, but calling him a failure on the basis of 4 recent games is just nonsensical.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zee on November 08, 2023, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Yeah I don't get this. Woll is literally the least of the issues, one bad game I'm not worried about. The bigger issue is an unplayable 4th line, all the forwards that were brought in can't defend and the big defense signing of the summer can't play in his own end
Reaves was a swing and a miss for sure. Just not adding anything out there. Something's got to give sooner or later.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.

Look, we've seen this play out before, many times.  Pogge, Gustavson, Reimer, Sparks...and the list goes on.  Sure other teams get good goalies that come up from the minors and do amazing this.  I get how Leafs fans think it's possible, but  this is the Leafs though.  That doesn't happen for this team.  Why would it?

Can you tell me that you looked at his game tonight and think that Woll is destined to become a top 15 goalie in the League?  If we can all jump on the bandwagon after 2 good games, why and I not able to remove the screws from the wheels on said bandwagon after three really bad games? 

He's young, a rookie.  The promise you see is his frame, flexibility, and positioning.  I have no idea whether he'll pan out as a top 15, but calling him a failure on the basis of 4 recent games is just nonsensical.
Wasting your time ZBBM...Woll's a failure...all over for him. Team sucks too.

Zee

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.

Look, we've seen this play out before, many times.  Pogge, Gustavson, Reimer, Sparks...and the list goes on. 


What a ridiculous list you've given. The only guy on that list that started out as good as Woll was Reimer, who's actually still in the league by the way.

Pogge played 7 games and was bad from the start. 

Sparks aside from his debut shutout was horrible.

Gustavsson peaked in preseason.

Woll has played 19 games in the league and has a .919 right now. He's technically sound, is calm in the net and has shown the ability to make big saves when needed. Calling him a failed prospect is just flat out dumb

azzurri63

#115
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.

Look, we've seen this play out before, many times.  Pogge, Gustavson, Reimer, Sparks...and the list goes on.  Sure other teams get good goalies that come up from the minors and do amazing this.  I get how Leafs fans think it's possible, but  this is the Leafs though.  That doesn't happen for this team.  Why would it?

Can you tell me that you looked at his game tonight and think that Woll is destined to become a top 15 goalie in the League?  If we can all jump on the bandwagon after 2 good games, why and I not able to remove the screws from the wheels on said bandwagon after three really bad games? 

He's young, a rookie.  The promise you see is his frame, flexibility, and positioning.  I have no idea whether he'll pan out as a top 15, but calling him a failure on the basis of 4 recent games is just nonsensical.
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.
No kidding. Some like to overreact....it's actually pretty comical.

Thanks anti-azzuri.  Love your objectivity.  Just because you want everything to be positive doesn't make it positive.  A person who never wants to see flaws in something can be annoying too as well as comical.
Where did I say they didn't have flaws? They do but the overreactions after goals/losses by some here is funny as hell. Trade everyone, team's embarrassing, failed prospect, etc., etc.

Guilt Trip we don't see eye to eye that's fine. My take on this team and I don't care what they bring to fill out this roster is they aint going to win with this core. I've said it a thousand times. Fine they gave it a few years but when do the come to the realization that this team isn't going anywhere with this core. That's what frustrates me and why I witch and complain about this team. Because what I see is nothings changed. You think otherwise. We win one round and management thinks it's all hunky dory. They were lucky to win that series. Talent is one thing. Heart is another. The makeup is what needs to change. There are teams with less talent than us that play hard everyday and compete hard we don't. The injuries don't help but we've played 13 games, barely above .500 have given up a whack of goals and realistically have played well in maybe 4 games. The record could be easily worse. We have regressed plain and simple in my mind.

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.
No kidding. Some like to overreact....it's actually pretty comical.

Thanks anti-azzuri.  Love your objectivity.  Just because you want everything to be positive doesn't make it positive.  A person who never wants to see flaws in something can be annoying too as well as comical.
Where did I say they didn't have flaws? They do but the overreactions after goals/losses by some here is funny as hell. Trade everyone, team's embarrassing, failed prospect, etc., etc.

Well I'm glad you are the type of person who laughs when other people are upset.

Tell you what I am going to do.  I'm going to cancel my monthly Patreon payment to this site, and just stop coming by.  That way you don't have to read my "comical" and "funny as hell" rants about the Leafs when they suffer a loss, and I don't have to be taken to task and talked down too by some elitist positive thinker just because I have a negative emotional reaction to the way the Leafs play.

I wish you all the best.     
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

azzurri63

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 08, 2023, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 08, 2023, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on November 08, 2023, 09:26:22 PMGood to see we all over-reacted to Woll's fast start.
Woll is fine. Just a bad game.

Just a bad game?  Here are his last 4 starts:

Nov 8, 23 vs OTT L 27 6 .778
Nov 6, 23 vs TBL W 19 1 .947
Nov 4, 23 vs BUF L 40 5 .875
Oct 31, 23 vs LAK L 27 4 .852

It's not a bad start, it's a regression to the mean.  He isn't a goalie of the future, he's a failed Leaf prospect.

Oh come on.  I get you're upset but this is just silly.
No kidding. Some like to overreact....it's actually pretty comical.

Thanks anti-azzuri.  Love your objectivity.  Just because you want everything to be positive doesn't make it positive.  A person who never wants to see flaws in something can be annoying too as well as comical.
Where did I say they didn't have flaws? They do but the overreactions after goals/losses by some here is funny as hell. Trade everyone, team's embarrassing, failed prospect, etc., etc.

Well I'm glad you are the type of person who laughs when other people are upset.

Tell you what I am going to do.  I'm going to cancel my monthly Patreon payment to this site, and just stop coming by.  That way you don't have to read my "comical" and "funny as hell" rants about the Leafs when they suffer a loss, and I don't have to be taken to task and talked down too by some elitist positive thinker just because I have a negative emotional reaction to the way the Leafs play.

I wish you all the best.     

Don't cave into them SI. We all have our opinions and there are always going to be indifferences. There are probably some running this shit show that think there is nothing wrong. All of management should have been shown the door after last season. They had ample time to try and build a winning team and all we keep doing is spinning wheels. Rinse and repeat is what I've been saying. Stay put that's why it's a forum so we all can post what we feel.

Bill_Berg

Say what you will about Woll, this team's GA is out of control. And I didn't hear that somewhere else before posting this.

L K

That was a really bad game from Woll.  But despite his high GAA he's 3rd in the lead in goals saved above expected at 7.4

The reality is this teams defense has regressed significantly.

Domi was a bad defensive player when we signed him.  That's to be expected.  I didn't expect Bertuzzi to be this useless.  He had a decent game yesterday offensively but he's not good defensively and coupling that with Nylander/Tavares who have consistently been a problem at 5on5 is just bizarre to me to have them paired up.  It's playing the salary instead of the lineup.

The 4th line is completely unusable.  Kampf is significantly overpaid for what he brings.  Reaves is significantly overpaid for what he brings in both salary and years. (Let's not forget that Reaves is a 35+ contract too!).  Reaves out on the ice trying to start a fight in the final few seconds was embarrassing.  You do nothing all game.   He's beyond useless. Waive him yesterday.

I still kind of like Gregor but we are talking about a 12th/13th forward playing with two anchors so anything that he can actually do is completely wasted.

The defensemen are also a mess.  McCabe will help a bit when he comes back although he's now missed 6 games (almost 7) and counting so who knows when he will actually dress.

Liljegren is gone for months and high ankle sprains are notorious for having players not feel right for a long time.

Lagesson's been ok but I think we see stretches of why he only has 66 NHL games at 27.  I like him as a 7th defenseman.

Timmins is working toward coming back but that's just taking Benoit/Lagesson out of the lineup when he returns. 

Klingberg is unplayable right now.  He's not just bad defensively, he's making other players worse.  I can't remember seeing a defenseman be out of position as much as him in the last few years. 

Gio is 40.  We can't change that.  He still has really good games and then has games like last night where he isn't as good.  He keeps getting overrelied on because we have no other depth/options.  At 40 we are asking him to be our 2nd/3rd best defenseman.

I don't know where we go with this team.  Yes, last year they had a slow start too.  In October last year the core 4 had 13 combined goals in 40 combined games.   This year they had 20 in a combined 36.  So we are having a mediocre start with our big guns firing.  The core four have 30 goals on the season now and that would have them 26th in NHL team scoring.