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2023-24 NHL Thread

Started by herman, September 13, 2023, 02:46:31 PM

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Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington

#480
Also wondering what this could do to the salary cap for 2025/26 onwards. You'd think attendance at Utah games would be around three times higher with their 11k capacity than what the Coyotes were getting, and also with $200m apparently to be distributed among the other team owners as a result of the sale.

Guilt Trip

Amazing finish in Hockeytown. Was actually hoping the red Wings would pull it out and they did.

bustaheims

Quote from: Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington on April 15, 2024, 03:36:21 PMAlso wondering what this could do to the salary cap for 2025/26 onwards. You'd think attendance at Utah games would be around three times higher with their 11k capacity than what the Coyotes were getting, and also with $200m apparently to be distributed among the other team owners as a result of the sale.

The $200M from the sale doesn't impact the cap.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Nik

Quote from: Highlander on April 13, 2024, 12:51:29 PMI know a lot of people on this board wanted this move. I invested a lot of income over the years going to see the Leafs and other teams play the Yotes.  I had some really good times and am sad to see the franchise go.  I don't think the ownership group was paying there bills. Pity, as another group may have secured the Loop site and it would have worked there.  Salt Lake is one weird place

I don't think this is an entirely fair reading of the situation. The only reason anyone "wanted" this move is because the League trying to stay in Arizona moved past plan B or C and we're on Plan V at this point, a plan that has involved the team playing in a college arena the last few years. The only reason this ownership group owned the team in the first place is because the league had exhausted every single potential alternative. If "another group" had been capable of getting anything done arena-wise they would have owned the team.

This is a bad situation that has been going on so long that at one point it prominently involved an ownership bid from someone who made their money from Blackberries being the hot new tech. The league fought tooth and nail to keep the team put at the cost of millions of dollars.

I don't think anyone has, or ever really had, any actual bad feelings towards the Coyotes but at some point you just have to call the fight.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Nik

Quote from: Dappleganger on April 13, 2024, 02:20:42 PMhttps://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/05/17/why-tempe-vote-arizona-coyotes-failed-miserably/70227759007/

This was the beginning of the end. Less than a year later the team is moving to Utah. The Tempe site and proposal was great in my opinion and was going to be funded entirely with private money. Citizens voted no.


Leaving aside that this "private money" included the city spending 200 million on infrastructure upgrades to accommodate the building and 700 million in tax relief there was still the reality that this group, whose financing was always dubious, wanted the city on the hook for a pretty significant portion of the debt they'd be taking on in order to build the "entertainment district". If the project fell apart, the city would be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. These projects always, after independent analysis, are found to exaggerate the economic benefits.

I mean, think of it this way, if this project was this entirely privately funded enterprise which made a ton of economic sense without risk or cost to the city...why involve the city at all? Why not just build the thing?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

#27 #TeamFasstholes


Dappleganger

Quote from: Nik on April 17, 2024, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: Dappleganger on April 13, 2024, 02:20:42 PMhttps://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/05/17/why-tempe-vote-arizona-coyotes-failed-miserably/70227759007/

This was the beginning of the end. Less than a year later the team is moving to Utah. The Tempe site and proposal was great in my opinion and was going to be funded entirely with private money. Citizens voted no.


Leaving aside that this "private money" included the city spending 200 million on infrastructure upgrades to accommodate the building and 700 million in tax relief there was still the reality that this group, whose financing was always dubious, wanted the city on the hook for a pretty significant portion of the debt they'd be taking on in order to build the "entertainment district". If the project fell apart, the city would be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. These projects always, after independent analysis, are found to exaggerate the economic benefits.

I mean, think of it this way, if this project was this entirely privately funded enterprise which made a ton of economic sense without risk or cost to the city...why involve the city at all? Why not just build the thing?


If you watch the video below, 16:50 to 23:45, it addresses the infrastructure and some parameters of the proposed deal:


cabber24

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

bustaheims

Quote from: cabber24 on April 18, 2024, 10:12:49 AMWhat do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

herman

Quote from: bustaheims on April 18, 2024, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on April 18, 2024, 10:12:49 AMWhat do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

bustaheims

Quote from: herman on April 18, 2024, 10:53:19 AMI saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

Yeah. That's extremely tight. Someone in Philly's room would have needed to have been watching the game to get the info to Torts in time. Sucks for Detroit, but, that's what happens when you put your fate in the hands of other teams.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

cw

Quote from: herman on April 18, 2024, 10:53:19 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on April 18, 2024, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on April 18, 2024, 10:12:49 AMWhat do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

I was flipping between the Washington-Philly game and the Detroit game and the scoreboard.
I didn't realize Philly was eliminated before they pulled their goalie. I never knew about it until the media reported it. The Wings looked like they were going to lose - they tied it up with 5 seconds left and then won in OT.
And I missed the empty net goal while I was flipping around.

cabber24

Quote from: bustaheims on April 18, 2024, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: herman on April 18, 2024, 10:53:19 AMI saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

Yeah. That's extremely tight. Someone in Philly's room would have needed to have been watching the game to get the info to Torts in time. Sucks for Detroit, but, that's what happens when you put your fate in the hands of other teams.
They review offsides in real time... I suppose it can take 90 seconds to let the dust settle (to determine no reason to challenge a goal) and if Torts was told he was eliminated, didn't pull the goalie and then it got overturned, PHI would be irate. I do think if there was adequate time to let him know they should though. His team should let him know, it's not the league's job to.

Rough way to go down for Detroit but yes, don't put yourself in those situations would be the solution.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

CarltonTheBear

#494
It feels like a moot point. It the Flyers don't pull the goalie there then the game goes to overtime where the Capitals could and probably would have still won. Especially since it would have been clear then that Philly's season was officially over while Washington would be playing for their playoff lives to earn a point.