2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

https://www.capfriendly.com/arbitration

Arbitration Ruling:

• Player & Club can settle on a deal at any point prior to the commencement of the hearing (Prior to the 2020 MOU, a settlement could be made at any point prior to the arbitration decision)
• Once the hearing has taken place, the Salary Arbitration decision must be issued by email within 48 hrs of the closing [CBA 12.9(n)(i)]
• Arbitration awards can only be 1 or 2 years in length [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
• The party (Player or Club) who did not elect for Arbitration decides on the awarded term [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
• Players who are in their final year Restricted Free Agency are only entitled to a 1 year term.
• Club cannot walk away from a Club elected Arbitration Settlement [CBA 12.10(e)]
  
• Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 1 year and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the awarded salary, making the player a UFA [CBA 12.10(a)]
• Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 2 years and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the second (2nd) year of the awarded salary, making the player a UFA at the end of year 1 [CBA 12.10(b)]

[Rob]

https://www.capfriendly.com/arbitration

Arbitration Ruling:

• Player & Club can settle on a deal at any point prior to the commencement of the hearing (Prior to the 2020 MOU, a settlement could be made at any point prior to the arbitration decision)
• Once the hearing has taken place, the Salary Arbitration decision must be issued by email within 48 hrs of the closing [CBA 12.9(n)(i)]
• Arbitration awards can only be 1 or 2 years in length [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
• The party (Player or Club) who did not elect for Arbitration decides on the awarded term [CBA 12.10(a)&(b)]
• Players who are in their final year Restricted Free Agency are only entitled to a 1 year term.
• Club cannot walk away from a Club elected Arbitration Settlement [CBA 12.10(e)]
  
• Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 1 year and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the awarded salary, making the player a UFA [CBA 12.10(a)]
• Player elected Arbitration Settlements of 2 years and greater than $4,538,958, Club can walk away from the second (2nd) year of the awarded salary, making the player a UFA at the end of year 1 [CBA 12.10(b)]

Thanks Herman. 

[Peter D.]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

[bustaheims]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

Samsonov was very good last season. If he can keep near that level of play, I think he can be the answer. That's obviously a big if, but that's true about like 90% of goalies.

[azzurri63]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

I wasn't and still not sold on him. Way too much flopping, movement for my liking. Think his stats were ok but I think he gets lucky a lot. I wasn't sure of Woll because of limited use in the NHL but I actually feel more confident in him. Find a cheaper replacement and ride Woll and see if he's the answer. If not Willy can net us a net minder. Demko, Gibson or Helly will do just fine.

[Nik]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

I'm not sold on him in the sense that I don't think he's a lock to be a top of the league goaltender or anything but I think we have to be realistic about what the team can do to improve the situation. Basically their options are either guys who will have just as many question marks or potentially less upside or they're guys who would require significant salary shifting.

[Bender]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

I'm not sold on him in the sense that I don't think he's a lock to be a top of the league goaltender or anything but I think we have to be realistic about what the team can do to improve the situation. Basically their options are either guys who will have just as many question marks or potentially less upside or they're guys who would require significant salary shifting.

I mean welcome to the salary cap where your team is basically never ideal barring a number of quality, controlled prospects coming up to fill positions.

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I would trade Murray to Detroit for Zadina and let them buy him out, as they likely don't need him. Gets Yzerman out of Zadina, nicely, gets us out of the Murray contract, without the hit. If we have to sweeten for the buyout, it's likely worth it, to make everything work out. Just a thought, as they have two players eligible for arbitration, I believe.

[L K]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

I'm not sold on him in the sense that I don't think he's a lock to be a top of the league goaltender or anything but I think we have to be realistic about what the team can do to improve the situation. Basically their options are either guys who will have just as many question marks or potentially less upside or they're guys who would require significant salary shifting.

Samsonov when healthy looks like a goalie who can be good enough to steal games.  We watched him do it.  Any goaltender who is able to put up a good overall season AND have games where they steal wins is capable of being a goaltender you can win with. 

If we were to make a list of the best goaltenders over the last few years it would probably be Saros, Hellebyuck, and Vasilevskiy.

Vasilevskiy - 3 Stanley Cup finals, 2 Stanley Cups, 2 first round exits in the last 5 years
Hellebyuck - Advanced out of the first round once, Missed the playoffs once, 8-15 record over that span
Saros - (only played 1 partial game in 18-19), Made playoffs twice in 4 years, Eliminated in first round twice

2023 Vezina finalists - Hellebyuck, Ullmark, Sorokin
2022 Vezina finalists - Markstrom, Saros, Shesterkin
2021 Vezina finalists - Vasilevskiy, Fleury, Grubauer
2020 Vezina finalists - Hellebyuck, Vasilevskiy, Rask
2019 Vezina finalists - Bishop, Lehner, Vasilevskiy

Of the Vezina finalists only Vasilevskiy won the cup while also being a Vezina finalist (2020, 2021).   He is also the only finalist to make the Stanley Cup finals out of those 15 selections.

You don't need a top 5 goaltender to win the Cup, you just need a goaltender capable of getting hot for 20 games (as evidenced by Bobrovsky going into God mode against the Leafs and Carolina)

[L K]

Am I the only one not sold on Samsonov as the solution for the team's goaltending?  I know we just saw a stiff in Adin Hill win the Cup, and the Leafs have very little wiggle room cap wise, but I'd rather Treliving do something creative to improve the position than just run it back with Samsonov.

I'm not sold on him in the sense that I don't think he's a lock to be a top of the league goaltender or anything but I think we have to be realistic about what the team can do to improve the situation. Basically their options are either guys who will have just as many question marks or potentially less upside or they're guys who would require significant salary shifting.

I mean welcome to the salary cap where your team is basically never ideal barring a number of quality, controlled prospects coming up to fill positions.

Even then with cheap contracts to offset your roster you still have to be ruthless and trade guys away to stay cap compliant. Only having three years of cost control with your ELCs means very little if they are truly good players as they get expensive quickly.

[herman]

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1676701740253544449
Player elected

[Highlander]

2025 Woll and Wildbeast. Bye Samson, do not cut your hair bud. Hope you have a great 24 season.

[Nik]

Samsonov when healthy looks like a goalie who can be good enough to steal games.  We watched him do it.  Any goaltender who is able to put up a good overall season AND have games where they steal wins is capable of being a goaltender you can win with.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that the measure of how good a goalie is these days isn't so much how good they are at their best so much as it is their ability to bring that consistently. Samsonov looked very good this year and so I'm happy to bring him back. But I'd be lying if I said I was at all confident about what he'd do next year.

Like I'm saying, I think that's fairly common these days for goalies in general but it's almost universally true among the goalies the Leafs could credibly get their hands on.

[Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate]

My heart says throw it all to Woll and hope he becomes the Rask we should have had way back when.

My head says it's crazy to spend $11.738 bajillion on 34/16/88/91 and then put it all in the hands of a guy who's played about 10 games in the league.

[OldTimeHockey]

My heart says throw it all to Woll and hope he becomes the Rask we should have had way back when.

My head says it's crazy to spend $11.738 bajillion on 34/16/88/91 and then put it all in the hands of a guy who's played about 10 games in the league.

Unless that's all you can afford.


I've been working with goalies for 30 years. Woll certainly brings a calmness to the net. He doesn't over exert himself. He doesn't put himself out of position to make a save. That said, we haven't seen a lot of him.

Samsonov plays overly aggressive which causes him to look ugly in the net but seems to get the job done.

Like Nik, I'm not overly confident in Samsonov, but I'm not sure the sample size on Woll is large enough to let him run with it and I'm not sure there's a stop gap out there that will fill the hole until Woll is ready that is any better than Samsonov. (Or paid less).