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2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

Started by herman, May 31, 2023, 09:04:55 AM

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4EVRLEAFAN

Is there a rumor that Matt Murray could be back this year?

Highlander

Quote from: 4EVRLEAFAN on February 26, 2024, 04:33:49 PMIs there a rumor that Matt Murray could be back this year?
I doubt it happening. Next year Woll & the Beast take us to the cup.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

lamajama

Quote from: 4EVRLEAFAN on February 26, 2024, 04:33:49 PMIs there a rumor that Matt Murray could be back this year?

Is Tonya Harding around?
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

Zee

Quote from: Highlander on February 26, 2024, 05:02:35 PM
Quote from: 4EVRLEAFAN on February 26, 2024, 04:33:49 PMIs there a rumor that Matt Murray could be back this year?
I doubt it happening. Next year Woll & the Beast take us to the cup.


Can't they just pull a Kucherov and he's healthy in the playoffs?

cw

Quote from: 4EVRLEAFAN on February 26, 2024, 04:33:49 PMIs there a rumor that Matt Murray could be back this year?

Hockey News: 'He's Seeing Pucks Now': Maple Leafs Provide an Update on Injured Goaltender Matt Murray
Quote... How is Matt Murray doing?
"He's making good progress," Keefe said following the team's practice on Monday. "He's seeing pucks now, getting his work in. He's been very consistent in here putting his work and they've been really happy with his progress."

The time frame for Murray's recovery was placed at six-to-eight months. The earliest part of that window would see the 29-year-old return just weeks before the end of the regular season.

Six months is April 9th - about a week before the end of the season - which is probably the earliest one could hope. With cap issues, it probably can wait until the end of the season.
He may need longer than that. Who knows?

It is now possible they could have 4 NHL goalies for the playoffs.

4EVRLEAFAN


CarltonTheBear

The Leafs announced on October 9 that Murray had underwent bilateral hip surgery and was expected to be out for 6-8 months. That puts his return somewhere in the April-June range. Playoffs of course begin in late April. It's very, very, very unlikely the Leafs would be able to activate him off LTIR during the season for cap reasons but not entirely impossible. If they don't add any players/salary at the trade deadline and waive Jones, Lagesson, Reaves, and Gregor (or temporarily demote Holmberg) to drop to a 12F-6D-3G roster he would just barely squeeze under the cap. But again, that feels very unlikely to happen.

At first I was a little surprised to hear that he was back on the ice, but it's been about 4.5 months now which is a long time. Patrick Kane and Jesse Puljujarvi both also had bilateral hip surgeries this year, and while it's impossible to know if all the severity and recovery periods for all those are the same both of them were playing games (Kane in the NHL, Puljujarvi started in the AHL) almost exactly 6 months after their surgeries. Both of them resuming skating about 2-3 months after their surgery though, so at least based off the information we have Murray is behind them on that schedule.

This is all to say, will Murray play hockey again this season? Almost certainly no. Based off estimated timelines at best he's cleared to play hockey right while playoffs are in progress and it's incredibly unlikely the Leafs decide to turn to a goalie coming off major hip surgery and who hasn't played a hockey game in over a calendar year. It'd also just make way more sense for Murray's future career (he's only 29 years old) to just take the extra time the offseason will provide him to ensure he's as healthy as humanly possible for what could be a career make or break 24/25 season for him.

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

You're almost certainly right CTB but if they somehow go deep this year (!) and absolute disaster strikes (injuries to goalies, Samsonov regresses, etc.) and the choice was Hildeby or Murray ... I'd roll the dice on the guy who's won a Cup.

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2024, 12:12:47 PMYou're almost certainly right CTB but if they somehow go deep this year (!) and absolute disaster strikes (injuries to goalies, Samsonov regresses, etc.) and the choice was Hildeby or Murray ... I'd roll the dice on the guy who's won a Cup.

That would still be a really tough call to make, it'd really depend on exactly where Murray was at in his recovery. If he's just gotten cleared to play I'm not sure I call on him at any point after that surgery and after not playing a hockey game in over a year regardless of how many Cups he has. Now if he's fully, 100% ready to go and has been cleared for quite some time and had gotten in a number of starts with the Marlies then sure, I'd slot him as the #4 goalie.

With all that said I wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Murray (assuming he's healthy of course) and basically replacing Jones as the #3 goalie next season. I can't see any team offering him a definite back-up position so 3G on the Leafs would be a good gig for him.

bustaheims

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2024, 12:24:43 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2024, 12:12:47 PMYou're almost certainly right CTB but if they somehow go deep this year (!) and absolute disaster strikes (injuries to goalies, Samsonov regresses, etc.) and the choice was Hildeby or Murray ... I'd roll the dice on the guy who's won a Cup.

That would still be a really tough call to make, it'd really depend on exactly where Murray was at in his recovery. If he's just gotten cleared to play I'm not sure I call on him at any point after that surgery and after not playing a hockey game in over a year regardless of how many Cups he has. Now if he's fully, 100% ready to go and has been cleared for quite some time and had gotten in a number of starts with the Marlies then sure, I'd slot him as the #4 goalie.

With all that said I wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Murray (assuming he's healthy of course) and basically replacing Jones as the #3 goalie next season. I can't see any team offering him a definite back-up position so 3G on the Leafs would be a good gig for him.

Yeah. There's basically zero chance Murray suits up for anything more than practice this season or playoffs. If he dresses for a game, it would basically mean disaster has struck the team.

I'd also be up for bringing him in as a 3rd/4th string option next season. On a one year, near league minimum contract, there's basically zero risk to the team. If he recovers any of his form from the beginning of his time in Pittsburgh, as unlikely as that may be . . .
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

cw

For cap reasons, there is no way Murray comes back for the regular season. His earliest scheduled return is a week before the season ends. Makes no sense to lose players off the roster for that.

As for "could he play"? I took a look. I'm not as sure that he won't be able to.

Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, 20 at the time, Sabres goalie. had double hip surgery in April 2019. He was back playing in the ECHL regularly in early Nov 2019 - 6 months.
Linus Ullmark had double hip surgery in April 2016. He played Oct 10, 2015 in the AHL and Oct 24, 2015 in the NHL - five plus months
Demko had it in April 2015 and played 39 games for Boston College starting Oct 9th, 2015 to finish as a Hobey Baker finalist - five plus months
Korpisalo had double hip surgery around beginning of April 2022. Played AHL game Oct 29, NHL early Nov 2022
Comrie has surgery in Jan, back on ice in June.

Apparently, with this surgery, the younger you are, typically, the less damage has been done which makes the recovery shorter - there is less to shape/repair. Most, if not all of the goalies above were younger than Matt Murray.

There were others that had one hip done at a time or other surgery that took longer (Lack, Lehner). Leafs prospect Ian Scott had the surgery and never recovered - some groin issues. JS Giguere had groin issues after. There are no guarantees.

When this surgery worked, as it often did, these goalies were often rejuvenated. Murray might come back better than we saw him as a Leaf with better mobility and less pain.
If the report is accurate and Matt Murray is taking shots now, there's a chance he could make it back during the early playoffs. But hips are not the sort of recovery you can rush. It will obviously also relate to how long the Leafs last in the playoffs. If they're still playing in June, there's a very good chance he could help but another Leafs goalie would have been playing exceptionally well to get that far (one can dream ...).

cabber24

#1316
Vegas had 5 goalies start regular season games last year and 2 in the playoffs.

ROSTERED VEGAS GOALIES 22/23: HILL, HUTCHINSON, THOMPSON, BROSSOIT, LEHNER, PATERA, QUICK

Leafs had 5 goalies play last season too: SAMSONOV, MURRAY, WOLL, KALLGREN, ALEXANDER?

Had to look up Jett Alexander:

Maple Leafs emergency backup goalie Jett Alexander, who was signed to an amateur tryout prior to the game, relieved Samsonov and played the final 1:10. He did not face a shot on goal.
"It was pretty special, pretty nerve-racking obviously, but something I'll remember," Alexander said.


https://www.nhl.com/news/montreal-canadiens-toronto-maple-leafs-game-recap-343081998
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

cw

NHL Rumours Trade Idea
QuoteEric Duhatschek of The Athletic: Looking at a hypothetical three-team trade involving the Arizona Coyotes, Toronto Maple Leafs and Calgary Flames.

Coyotes receive the Toronto Maple Leafs 2024 first-round pick.
Maple Leafs receive defenseman Matt Dumba and a 2024 second-round pick.

Maple Leafs receive defenseman Chris Tanev.
Flames receive a 2024 second-round pick (via the Coyotes)

I'm reluctant to trade a first but the above and the guy who proposed it (Eric Duhatschek) caught my eye.
I'm not sure it is realistic but the concept is not completely nuts.
I had been thinking if they had to trade a first, I'd like a 2nd back to lessen the pain and voila ...

It got me thinking when I was looking at the Coyotes Cap Friendly numbers
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/coyotes
Weber, Shea RD   Injured 3yrs @ $7,857,143 on LTIR
Costing a team in a building with 4,600 capacity

I thought of the Marleau deal where the Leafs traded a 1st to get the Hurricanes to take the last year of his $6.x Mil deal off the Leafs hands.

Arizona has a boat load of 2nd round picks. Leafs have none.
If Az get any more draft picks, they'll run into Chicago's problem of signing them all. (They could roll them over ..)

So I wondered, for example - a sketch of an idea: Leafs trade Lagesson (to give Az a dman) for Dumba & Weber plus 2? second round picks - one for each $7 mil season and some consideration towards getting Dumba and they retain 50% of what remains of Dumba's deal (which will be offset by taking Weber's salary off them this season). Something like that ...

It would be a sweet deal for the Leafs - they get a RH dman and 2 picks for $ and Lagesson. AZ saves a bundle of dough to help their bottom line while still being well north of the cap minimum with a bunch of RFAs to sign.

Play around with the numbers or picks - the concept is something where the Leafs could use their money to get a RH Dman, picks to help the prospect pipeline or maybe turn around and get Tanev.

I figured Arizona must be hurting with only 4,600 tickets/game. I've seen mixed reviews of their profitability.

Another one: maybe the Caps would send a prospect and pick for the last year and a bit of Backstrom's $9.x deal ...

Am I crazy?

Guilt Trip

#1318
Quote from: cw on February 27, 2024, 10:38:40 PMWeber, Shea RD   Injured 3yrs @ $7,857,143 on LTIR
Weber isn't on LTIR. He's on IR and the Yotes use contracts like his to get to the cap floor. As for the building...they could care less right now. They get money from the NHL...the Leafs and other profitable teams.
Also Arizona got a 5th and Weber for an unknown player. You're not getting anything close to a 2nd rounder for an potential LTIR guy.

Quote from: cw on February 27, 2024, 10:38:40 PMAnother one: maybe the Caps would send a prospect and pick for the last year and a bit of Backstrom's $9.x deal ...

Am I crazy?
Maybe lol...no you're not but I don't see Wash giving up anything to dump a guy that can go on LTIR. They may want to dump Wilson though. His new contract 6.5M x7 kicks in next year. That's a terrible deal for a 30 year old.

Rob

Quote from: cw on February 27, 2024, 10:38:40 PMNHL Rumours Trade Idea
QuoteEric Duhatschek of The Athletic: Looking at a hypothetical three-team trade involving the Arizona Coyotes, Toronto Maple Leafs and Calgary Flames.

Coyotes receive the Toronto Maple Leafs 2024 first-round pick.
Maple Leafs receive defenseman Matt Dumba and a 2024 second-round pick.

Maple Leafs receive defenseman Chris Tanev.
Flames receive a 2024 second-round pick (via the Coyotes)

I'm reluctant to trade a first but the above and the guy who proposed it (Eric Duhatschek) caught my eye.
I'm not sure it is realistic but the concept is not completely nuts.
I had been thinking if they had to trade a first, I'd like a 2nd back to lessen the pain and voila ...

It got me thinking when I was looking at the Coyotes Cap Friendly numbers
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/coyotes
Weber, Shea RD   Injured 3yrs @ $7,857,143 on LTIR
Costing a team in a building with 4,600 capacity

I thought of the Marleau deal where the Leafs traded a 1st to get the Hurricanes to take the last year of his $6.x Mil deal off the Leafs hands.

Arizona has a boat load of 2nd round picks. Leafs have none.
If Az get any more draft picks, they'll run into Chicago's problem of signing them all. (They could roll them over ..)

So I wondered, for example - a sketch of an idea: Leafs trade Lagesson (to give Az a dman) for Dumba & Weber plus 2? second round picks - one for each $7 mil season and some consideration towards getting Dumba and they retain 50% of what remains of Dumba's deal (which will be offset by taking Weber's salary off them this season). Something like that ...

It would be a sweet deal for the Leafs - they get a RH dman and 2 picks for $ and Lagesson. AZ saves a bundle of dough to help their bottom line while still being well north of the cap minimum with a bunch of RFAs to sign.

Play around with the numbers or picks - the concept is something where the Leafs could use their money to get a RH Dman, picks to help the prospect pipeline or maybe turn around and get Tanev.

I figured Arizona must be hurting with only 4,600 tickets/game. I've seen mixed reviews of their profitability.

Another one: maybe the Caps would send a prospect and pick for the last year and a bit of Backstrom's $9.x deal ...

Am I crazy?

Weber's real money salary is only $1 million a year.