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Who should the next GM be? The next head coach?

Started by Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate, May 23, 2023, 09:58:46 PM

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Dappleganger

#30
I'm kinda warming to a Gillis-Gilman tandem.

Bullfrog

I don't care who; just sign Marner to an 8-year contract please.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bullfrog on May 25, 2023, 07:50:46 PMI don't care who; just sign Marner to an 8-year contract please.
You means Matthews? Marner isn't eligible until July 1 2024.


RedLeaf

Quote from: herman on May 26, 2023, 08:20:23 AMhttps://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/05/26/evaluating-brad-trelivings-candidacy-for-maple-leafs-gm/
At least he has the same glasses

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

I don't know if I came away from that feeling better about Treliving as a candidate or worse though. Lol.
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

bustaheims

Treliving really does seem like a pretty run-of-the-mill GM type - he'll do some good, some bad, and a lot in between. He won't likely screw things up terribly, but he also won't likely improve them significantly. If the team is just looking for someone as a steward, he's fine. But, teams are typically looking for more than that.

Also, when it comes to looking at a GM's drafting record, anything past the 1st round is probably giving them too much credit. From the 2nd round on, it's typically the head of the scouting staff making the determinations on who to draft. The GM will often set parameters or identify certain traits they want to prioritize, but they're rarely making the decisions on the names being called.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Guilt Trip

Quote from: RedLeaf on May 26, 2023, 08:49:10 AM
Quote from: herman on May 26, 2023, 08:20:23 AMhttps://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/05/26/evaluating-brad-trelivings-candidacy-for-maple-leafs-gm/
At least he has the same glasses

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

I don't know if I came away from that feeling better about Treliving as a candidate or worse though. Lol.
Worse foe me but that goes for whoever is out there. I think they let the best guy go.

herman

We could do a lot worse. And we had someone quite a bit better.

But Treliving's teams have generally fared about as well as Toronto, working with significantly lesser components (albeit in a weaker division) and pretty wishywashy stability. I think if Pridham remains and is listened to, most of Treliving's mistakes would be mitigated. What's up with those coaching choices, though?

Aside from all the great boss/person vibes, what we might miss most from Dubas is the longterm foresight and ability to maneuver within the confines and structure of the situation. He drew really good structural lines (see current cap sheet blocking off all the headroom for whatever Matthews/Nylander need), and then got very creative for the present day needs, and adjusting to all the injury curveballs. Pridham stands out for handling the mechanics of it all.

What we gain with Treliving is little to no personal attachment to the current roster. I know he would've done it eventually, but Dubas would've had a very hard time moving Muzzin, Murray, Simmonds before their best before dates.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Dappleganger

#38
There was a GM in the league that recently let one of their star players walk in free agency and traded his MVP-calibre player away after a trade demand. Maybe don't hire that guy.
 

RedLeaf

Quote from: bustaheims on May 26, 2023, 09:12:47 AMTreliving really does seem like a pretty run-of-the-mill GM type - he'll do some good, some bad, and a lot in between. He won't likely screw things up terribly, but he also won't likely improve them significantly. If the team is just looking for someone as a steward, he's fine. But, teams are typically looking for more than that.

Also, when it comes to looking at a GM's drafting record, anything past the 1st round is probably giving them too much credit. From the 2nd round on, it's typically the head of the scouting staff making the determinations on who to draft. The GM will often set parameters or identify certain traits they want to prioritize, but they're rarely making the decisions on the names being called.
The word 'stewart' doesn't sit well with me, unless you also include the word 'placeholder' in reference to Treliving. Maybe (if he's the best of few options) sign him to a 1-2 year contract until better options become available.
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

herman

#40
https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1662139640952897551
So these are Frank's expectations, not exactly who Shanahan is even interviewing, apart from Treliving who is already moreorless confirmed to have interviewed (Friedman 32T). These names are also mentioned as guesses by Friedman,

On the one hand: these are obvious people who have the recent experience of being a GM.
On the other: this list looks like someone feeding the media to make their already-determined mediocre choice look better.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Rob

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Pierre McGuire yet.




Dappleganger

So the Leafs had the best of the available GM's already working for them but let him go. Interesting move.

I mean, maybe Tulsky (if he's even available but he has been rumoured). Are Tulsky and Dubas the best "available" GM's currently?
 

herman

#43
Quote from: Dappleganger on May 26, 2023, 01:36:50 PMSo the Leafs had the best of the available GM's already working for them but let him go. Interesting move.

I mean, maybe Tulsky (if he's even available but he has been rumoured). Are Tulsky and Dubas the best "available" GM's currently?
 

Tulsky is the most similar to Dubas: young, progressive thinker, worked with a team that wears red/white. He comes to the same place from the other side of the coin, so to speak. By all accounts, he is a great collaborator and really good at communicating ideas. Apparently Toronto's drafting team is always a bit miffed that there is another team angling almost specifically for the same targets/player types, and most people believe Carolina is that team.

The primary difference, and likely the biggest reason he hasn't gotten a chance at sitting in the Big Chair yet is his lack of full hockey management experience. Where Dubas was a hockey lifer (the Soo Greyhounds) who took to analytics to try to gain an edge on a budget, Tulsky was a physics/chemistry nanotech researcher who parlayed his hockey hobby into a hockey analytics writing gig, and got scooped up by Carolina to head their analytics efforts. He got promoted to AGM under Wadell when Dundon purchased the team and has since interviewed for several recent openings.

Addendum: for someone to take a chance on Tulsky, they'd probably have to be well outside their contention window the way the Leafs were when Shanahan pulled in Dubas/Hunter/Lamoreillo.  If Dubas had played his hand a bit better, and perhaps if he wanted to go in that direction, there could've been a universe where Dubas is elevated to President of Hockey Ops, and he hires Tulsky to GM with Pridham in cap support to form the nerdiest hockey triumvirate:
Dubas: vision and organizational structure/behaviour
Tulsky: data and strategy
Pridham: cap and contracts
#27 #TeamFasstholes

CarltonTheBear

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1663275885607174146

Missed this over the weekend. Apparently Friedman reported that the Leafs have at least been in contact with former Sharks GM Doug Wilson. Wilson stepped down from his position as GM at the end of the 21/22 season citing health issues (after being on medical leave for most of the season). Last month Friedman reported that he could be looking to get back into hockey.

Not sure if there's mutual interest there but of all the names mentioned for the job he'd probably be right at the top of my list (if not the very top).