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A fair return for Nylander ?

Started by RedLeaf, July 08, 2023, 10:33:00 AM

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CarltonTheBear

#15
Quote from: azzurri63 on July 11, 2023, 12:17:42 PMNot sure how negotiations are going with Willy but if I was Trev I would be all over Keller from the Coyotes. Said he wants out. Similar numbers to Willy, only 24 and signed for another 5 years at just over 7 million. Don't think you'll be losing much for offence. Arizona I'm sure not on Nylander's list but maybe a 3 team deal. Great replacement, good contract and save us a couple million a year at least. Thoughts?

1) Were you trying to give people a heart attack by posting that in main and with that title?

2) It's not the worst idea from a Leafs perspective. Keller's a solid PPG forward and on a great contract. But for that reason it also doesn't make any sense for Arizona to trade him.

Bender

Jeez, I thought that was a trade!
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

bustaheims

#17
Quote from: azzurri63 on July 11, 2023, 12:17:42 PMNot sure how negotiations are going with Willy but if I was Trev I would be all over Keller from the Coyotes. Said he wants out. Similar numbers to Willy, only 24 and signed for another 5 years at just over 7 million. Don't think you'll be losing much for offence. Arizona I'm sure not on Nylander's list but maybe a 3 team deal. Great replacement, good contract and save us a couple million a year at least. Thoughts?

Keller's been riding an inflated shooting percentage the last couple seasons. If he can't keep that up, the Leafs will lose a good chunk of offence there.

Also, no way Nylander signs an extension in Arizona.

EDIT: I'd also be wary of the "Ponikarovsky effect" AKA being the guy who puts up decent numbers for bad teams but struggles with good teams. With the Yotes, Keller almost certainly faced backup goalies more frequently that he would with the Leafs, and also likely had a number of nights where the team he was playing against didn't necessarily give 100% because, well, they were playing the Coyotes.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Nik


I'm not sure how this trade is supposed to make sense for anyone. If Keller is roughly as good as Nylander, why would one of the poorest teams in the league trade a younger, cheaper player for his older, more expensive counterpart? And the idea of a third team involved makes even less sense because if Keller is as good as Nylander and this mythical third team is trading things to Arizona for Keller to flip Keller to the Leafs for Nylander, why wouldn't they just keep Keller?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

azzurri63

#19
Quote from: Nik on July 11, 2023, 12:59:21 PMI'm not sure how this trade is supposed to make sense for anyone. If Keller is roughly as good as Nylander, why would one of the poorest teams in the league trade a younger, cheaper player for his older, more expensive counterpart? And the idea of a third team involved makes even less sense because if Keller is as good as Nylander and this mythical third team is trading things to Arizona for Keller to flip Keller to the Leafs for Nylander, why wouldn't they just keep Keller?

Keller stated a month ago he wants out of Arizona. So if he's not wanting to go back what are the Coyotes options? Nylander I'm sure in his list of teams has Arizona not included thus you need a 3rd team. Sounds like he wants some changes and direction from the team. I guess his Dad made the comments after the new arena rejection. If he's not happy and may want out he may be there to snag. Love Nylander to stay but not at around 10 million.

Nik

Quote from: azzurri63 on July 11, 2023, 01:37:00 PMKeller stated a month ago he wants out of Arizona. So if he's not wanting to go back what are the Coyotes options?

I mean, he's under contract for 5 years. They don't have to trade him just because he wants it. I'm sure there are lots of guys under contract who'd like to be traded.

But even then, they have the option of trading him for picks and prospects as opposed to someone making even more money than Keller but who isn't, in your view, appreciably better.

Quote from: azzurri63 on July 11, 2023, 01:37:00 PMNylander I'm sure in his list of teams has Arizona not included thus you need a 3rd team.

Right so why would this third team give Arizona what it would take to get Keller, again a player you think is roughly as good as Nylander, but then flip him to Toronto for the more expensive, older but not significantly better player?

Basically, in this proposal, you're saying you'd rather have Keller than Nylander but your trade proposal hinges on a team rather having Nylander than Keller.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bill_Berg

I don't think you can circumvent a no-trade list by involving a 3rd team. I imagine that 3rd team would need to honor the no-trade list the player submits.

Nik

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on July 11, 2023, 02:14:25 PMI don't think you can circumvent a no-trade list by involving a 3rd team. I imagine that 3rd team would need to honor the no-trade list the player submits.

I think the idea is that Nylander would end up on the third team, one that presumably isn't on his list. So basically it would be two different trades. The third team trades Arizona what Arizona would want for Keller, then trade Keller to Toronto for Nylander.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

azzurri63

Wow when I made the post it was basically a suggestion of what everyone thought of moving Nylander in some sort of trade involving Keller. Was talk a month or so ago supposedly from his Dad that Clayton wasn't happy. Sounds like someone hacked the Dads twitter account. Having said that Keller has made comments about what he'd like to see from the team to keep him there. He doesn't sound happy there with the arena bs etc. If Nylander is pricing himself out of Toronto and we could find a 3rd team to involve Keller I'd try and make a move. That's all I was suggesting and wanted thoughts on it. Also if I posted it and some thought a deal was made that was not my intention and thus ended it with thoughts?

Nik

Quote from: azzurri63 on July 11, 2023, 02:27:28 PMThat's all I was suggesting and wanted thoughts on it. Also if I posted it and some thought a deal was made that was not my intention and thus ended it with thoughts?

And you got thoughts on it. My thoughts were that a trade doesn't really make sense if one of the things it needs to happen is to find a team that wants to make a trade that you think wouldn't be very good(Which, again, is trading Keller for Nylander and then agreeing to pay Nylander 10 million instead of Keller 7 million).
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi