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Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

Started by CarltonTheBear, May 19, 2023, 10:58:11 AM

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L K

Quote from: Nik on May 24, 2023, 12:49:50 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 24, 2023, 11:02:05 AMHonestly, I don't get the handwringing about all of this. Yes, things haven't played out how many of us would have liked them to, but the jump to suddenly the team doesn't have competent leadership feels like a huge stretch and a surface level media narrative. Anyone who has been around the league (or any business) long enough would have contingency plans in place, and I'm sure Shanahan and MLSE do.

I think the "handwringing" about this boils down to three key points:

1. After yet another tough beat in the playoffs this can read, the Leafs not getting their #1 choice to run the club, like another moral defeat.

2. There are people with concerns, as yet unfounded but with a fair argument behind them, that this could be detrimental for bringing guys like Matthews back(which I think we all agree is more important than whoever the GM might be)

3. The way in which it happened reveals both perhaps a less stable organization than some would like as well as suggests that there's no particular plan for improvement.

And for what it's worth when the subject of keeping Dubas came up I said pretty clearly I wasn't all that fussed either way. If, after the season, Shanahan had just come out and said "We weren't happy with where the team was so we're going to go in another direction" I may not have immediately been convinced that things were going to be improving but it would at least come off as stable and forthright decision making.

Obviously everything is conjecture until we have a new GM announced but the names that are being floated aren't really the ones that make me excited.  I understand that the organization hasn't won with Dubas/Pridham at the helm but I like the general approach to things with an analytics/forward thinking organization.  Names like Treiliving don't make me feel like we are moving toward an improvement in management

Nik

Quote from: L K on May 24, 2023, 01:18:48 PMObviously everything is conjecture until we have a new GM announced but the names that are being floated aren't really the ones that make me excited.  I understand that the organization hasn't won with Dubas/Pridham at the helm but I like the general approach to things with an analytics/forward thinking organization.  Names like Treiliving don't make me feel like we are moving toward an improvement in management

Yeah, I think there's the instinct to think that if they want to move on from Dubas that means that they want someone who will do things significantly differently than Dubas which can strike a lot of people as not great if they generally think Dubas did a pretty good job here.

Now, of course, that's complicated by the apparent fact that they didn't want to move on from Dubas but decided to because either they didn't want to pay him what he wanted or because, I don't know, he didn't give the exact answer Shanahan wanted at a meaningless press conference but neither of those two things are probably going to make anyone feel any better.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

#317
Quote from: bustaheims on May 24, 2023, 08:39:23 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on May 24, 2023, 08:26:09 AMOnly thing I've read was Knies + Mrazek for Hagel + Fluery was either kiboshed or not approved fast enough by Shanahan. Take that however you will.

I saw that, too, though when that was made public last season, I got the impression that Dubas wasn't so much on board with that deal either and wanted to pull the plug once the proposed deal leaked.

https://twitter.com/b1rky/status/1661411661083705355
from today's 32 Thoughts pod

That's how negotiations work, right? You ask something a bit crazy but maybe has the general shape of something useful, and you go back and forth a bit and whittle it into shape. Mrazek ended up traded to Chicago anyway without costing Knies.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

L K

The Leafs had a bunch of trades come out of nowhere because Dubas did not have leaks.  That carried over from when Lou took over the organization.  That deal 100% was leaked by Chicago at the time and the report was always that it was a move offered by Chicago and that Dubas wasn't going to trade Knies.  I don't think that is a shocking revelation....although Hagel would have been a nice acquisition.

herman

https://theathletic.com/4549473/2023/05/25/maple-leafs-kyle-dubas-3/

QuoteShanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.

Jason Spezza resigned before that press conference even began. The popular former Leaf who retired into a role with the front office after the 2021-22 season has declined to address the matter any further than that. That was intentional. Spezza wanted his actions to do the talking.

[...]

After a 19-year playing career in the NHL, in which he earned an estimated $90 million, according to CapFriendly, Spezza could afford to walk away. Others who felt the same, who were inclined to follow their leader out the door, couldn't given they lacked that same sense of financial security.

It's security they have because of Dubas.

Though he wasn't offered an extension himself, not until after the trade deadline, Dubas fought to extend staff members who entered last season with expiring contracts. He got them extended with one, two, and three-year deals.

At least one staff member was inclined to ride things out with Dubas for an uncertain year. Dubas insisted — take the security, protect your family.

"Don't worry about me," he told his people. "I'll be OK."
#27 #TeamFasstholes

herman

https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1661789430770794505
Quote"This is clearly prohibited under the regulations," one long-time agent said on Thursday, requesting anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on behalf of his firm. "It is an unwritten, understood and longstanding practice that your guy down the hall doesn't work for the other side. I'd like the NHLPA to launch an investigation and draw their own conclusion."

[...]

NHLPA Certified Agent regulations prohibit agents from representing and providing services to any officer or employee of an NHL club. Armstrong is not currently an NHL certified agent

k, so...
#27 #TeamFasstholes

bustaheims

Quote from: herman on May 25, 2023, 01:05:08 PMhttps://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1661789430770794505
Quote"This is clearly prohibited under the regulations," one long-time agent said on Thursday, requesting anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on behalf of his firm. "It is an unwritten, understood and longstanding practice that your guy down the hall doesn't work for the other side. I'd like the NHLPA to launch an investigation and draw their own conclusion."

[...]

NHLPA Certified Agent regulations prohibit agents from representing and providing services to any officer or employee of an NHL club. Armstrong is not currently an NHL certified agent

k, so...

While this certainly feels like it violates the spirit of the regulations, it doesn't violate the letter of it. Can't see anything happening here outside of clarifying the language in those regulations.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Peter D.

I don't necessarily see anything really wrong with it, but the whole situation gets more bizarre as time passes.

CarltonTheBear

This feels like a giant nothingburger but I guess the PA has a crap load of free time on their hands as they ignore the general health, safety, and well-being of their players.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: herman on May 25, 2023, 11:47:52 AMhttps://theathletic.com/4549473/2023/05/25/maple-leafs-kyle-dubas-3/

QuoteShanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.

Jason Spezza resigned before that press conference even began. The popular former Leaf who retired into a role with the front office after the 2021-22 season has declined to address the matter any further than that. That was intentional. Spezza wanted his actions to do the talking.

[...]

After a 19-year playing career in the NHL, in which he earned an estimated $90 million, according to CapFriendly, Spezza could afford to walk away. Others who felt the same, who were inclined to follow their leader out the door, couldn't given they lacked that same sense of financial security.

It's security they have because of Dubas.

Though he wasn't offered an extension himself, not until after the trade deadline, Dubas fought to extend staff members who entered last season with expiring contracts. He got them extended with one, two, and three-year deals.

At least one staff member was inclined to ride things out with Dubas for an uncertain year. Dubas insisted — take the security, protect your family.

"Don't worry about me," he told his people. "I'll be OK."
Sounds like a pretty amazing boss. There are so many stories of what an absolute amazing human being Dubas is and how he treated everyone. We don't get the behind the scenes look but I'll always remember Dubas for 2 things. Staying with Mikheyev in Jersey and him running down the stairs on the phone when Tavares got hurt. The guy cares for people. The Leafs lost a great person.

L K

Quote from: Guilt Trip on May 25, 2023, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: herman on May 25, 2023, 11:47:52 AMhttps://theathletic.com/4549473/2023/05/25/maple-leafs-kyle-dubas-3/

QuoteShanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.

Jason Spezza resigned before that press conference even began. The popular former Leaf who retired into a role with the front office after the 2021-22 season has declined to address the matter any further than that. That was intentional. Spezza wanted his actions to do the talking.

[...]

After a 19-year playing career in the NHL, in which he earned an estimated $90 million, according to CapFriendly, Spezza could afford to walk away. Others who felt the same, who were inclined to follow their leader out the door, couldn't given they lacked that same sense of financial security.

It's security they have because of Dubas.

Though he wasn't offered an extension himself, not until after the trade deadline, Dubas fought to extend staff members who entered last season with expiring contracts. He got them extended with one, two, and three-year deals.

At least one staff member was inclined to ride things out with Dubas for an uncertain year. Dubas insisted — take the security, protect your family.

"Don't worry about me," he told his people. "I'll be OK."
Sounds like a pretty amazing boss. There are so many stories of what an absolute amazing human being Dubas is and how he treated everyone. We don't get the behind the scenes look but I'll always remember Dubas for 2 things. Staying with Mikheyev in Jersey and him running down the stairs on the phone when Tavares got hurt. The guy cares for people. The Leafs lost a great person.

I think this is part of why losing him sucked so much.  He's a nice guy and I really like the setup of our front office over this.  Contrast that to the team that gets Bedard this year (or our organization under Ballard) and it was just nice not having to worry about our front office doing something stupid.

When Fletcher had his melt-down over the Muskoka 5 and was disrespecting Mats it really ticked me off.  Dubas standing by our players through their playoff struggles mattered to me from a GM perspective.  I hope whoever replaces him can at least keep some of those elements in place.

Significantly Insignificant

I want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bill_Berg

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 25, 2023, 02:30:41 PMI want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.
I want a GM who gets up early, stays up late, with uninterrupted prosperity, and who uses a machete to cut through red tape.

louisstamos

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 25, 2023, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 25, 2023, 02:30:41 PMI want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.
I want a GM who gets up early, stays up late, with uninterrupted prosperity, and who uses a machete to cut through red tape.


Rob

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 25, 2023, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 25, 2023, 02:30:41 PMI want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.
I want a GM who gets up early, stays up late, with uninterrupted prosperity, and who uses a machete to cut through red tape.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.