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Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

Started by CarltonTheBear, May 19, 2023, 10:58:11 AM

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azzurri63

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:15:07 AMWe'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.

Bender

Quote from: Rob on May 19, 2023, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 19, 2023, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: princedpw on May 19, 2023, 11:44:12 AMThere are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes.   

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.

Which could very well be the hill that Dubas' Leafs GM career died on. 

I thought Kyle Dubas did an ok job.  At the end of the day this team is part of a multi-billion dollar conglomeration that is interested in winning.  We have heard different players say that everything is the best of the best in Toronto, all trappings and luxuries are taken to the next level.  MLSE is doing that to win, not just to make sure the players are not mad the toilet paper is too scratchy. 

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling he overcorrected from the old guard in some ways.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Highlander

Wow more housecleaning with the Marlies coaching staff gone, gone  gone
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Zee

Quote from: azzurri63 on May 19, 2023, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:15:07 AMWe'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.

Careful what you wish for.  We've been down the road of regime changes in the past and they never work out.  If they bring in the polar opposite of Dubas you'll be trading skill for toughness, welcome back 80s Leafs.

herman

#27 #TeamFasstholes

Nik


Even a rumour like that..you wonder what sort of autonomy he had. Like, could he have chosen to slow things down? Or not buy heavy at the deadline?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bender

Quote from: Zee on May 19, 2023, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: azzurri63 on May 19, 2023, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:15:07 AMWe'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.

Careful what you wish for.  We've been down the road of regime changes in the past and they never work out.  If they bring in the polar opposite of Dubas you'll be trading skill for toughness, welcome back 80s Leafs.

What has worked in this era? A good regular season team. And?

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the 80s but something has to give at some point.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bender

Quote from: Nik on May 19, 2023, 01:15:19 PMEven a rumour like that..you wonder what sort of autonomy he had. Like, could he have chosen to slow things down? Or not buy heavy at the deadline?

I mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

It could be as simple as not having someone looking over his shoulder all the time.

Either way, now I'm here for the juicy goss!
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Bender on May 19, 2023, 01:18:13 PMI mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

Wait, I didn't watch this, huh?

herman

Speaking of juicy goss, let's see who the 'insiders' are stumping for
https://twitter.com/NHL_Watcher/status/1659609951155765249
Ah, the man known for taking great players and buying them out and/or shipping them off to more successful places
#27 #TeamFasstholes

L K

Obviously who the new GM is going to really determine how I feel about this.  On the surface I'm not thrilled but it's not entirely unexpected or undeserved.

That presser on Monday didn't sound like a guy ready to go through the grind again

The autonomy stuff makes you wonder what he did/didn't want to do at times.   Shanahan sitting through multiple GMs with nothing to show for it.  The Shanaplan has been more of a bust in my mind and I hope he's the guy facing criticism moving forward

Bender

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 19, 2023, 01:18:13 PMI mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

Wait, I didn't watch this, huh?

Maybe not outirght permission exactly, but it felt like he had to confer with Shanny first. I'll have to re-watch it to confirm, but I remember that standing out.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bender

Quote from: herman on May 19, 2023, 01:20:29 PMSpeaking of juicy goss, let's see who the 'insiders' are stumping for
https://twitter.com/NHL_Watcher/status/1659609951155765249
Ah, the man known for taking great players and buying them out and/or shipping them off to more successful places

I really don't think he's the right guy. I do think their season was sewered by awful goaltending and a coach nobody wanted to play for though.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bullfrog

I quite liked him and hoped he'd be back. My criticism is not on the success of the team, but the lack of upcoming depth. All those picks traded away are brutal.

Highlander

Interesting Factoid. Strange things you discover when your surfing. Shanahan is worth over 80 Mill. 
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki