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Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

Started by CarltonTheBear, May 19, 2023, 10:58:11 AM

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Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

This is why sports reporting doesn't qualify as a genuine news operation.  It's all rumors and name-floating and armchair psychologizing.

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2023, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:52:31 AMI could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes — and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 23, 2023, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2023, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:52:31 AMI could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes — and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Wait, you went to college?
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

cw

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 12:18:52 PMAfter a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

yuzisee

Quote from: bustaheims on May 23, 2023, 12:15:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 11:36:13 AMI will say maybe the media is wrong and Shanahan's GM search won't essentially be "let's just call the last GM to get fired". Fingers crossed.

It is quite astounding how quickly Treliving got the job. It's like he was hired before the team even started the interview process. He practically had the job before Dubas was even let go. ;)

Like that time Campbell had 5×5 from Edmonton 😉

Frank E

Quote from: cw on May 23, 2023, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 12:18:52 PMAfter a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

This is how I read the situation.

Shanahan had a shaky support for doing a deal at the framework he and Dubas had discussed, then Dubas goes in front of the press and says he's not sure he wants the job, PLUS he asked for more money or terms...Shanahan had nowhere to go.

cw

Quote from: Frank E on May 23, 2023, 01:30:41 PM
Quote from: cw on May 23, 2023, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 12:18:52 PMAfter a few days of thinking about it it's still just hard to believe that this is where we're at.

If Dubas didn't want to return as Leafs GM, for whatever reason, that would have sucked but fully been his right with his contract expiring. If the Leafs wanted to make a change at GM due to the lack of playoff success the team has had under Dubas, it would have been something I disagreed with but at least there's some justification there I could understand.

Instead we have a situation where on Thursday morning everyone (Dubas, Shanny, MLSE) woke up hoping that Dubas' 9 year relationship with the team was going to continue. On Friday morning Shanny and/or MLSE decided to cut things off entirely. I just can't really fathom how whatever differences popped up over the course of the day on Thursday weren't something that could have been resolved with a little bit of time and discussion.

I suspect that might have been possible if Dubas had not gone public. When he went public, the board heard it - some of that same board who wouldn't renew Dubas last summer. You can be sure they inquired with Shanahan on what the heck was going on. The sudden chasm in the contract from their perspective along with the uncertainty likely undermined their support. Dubas comes off as flaky. Shanahan knew he couldn't sell it to them. Game over. Shanahan took the heat.

This is how I read the situation.

Shanahan had a shaky support for doing a deal at the framework he and Dubas had discussed, then Dubas goes in front of the press and says he's not sure he wants the job, PLUS he asked for more money or terms...Shanahan had nowhere to go.

Shanahan backed Dubas for 9 years. They can't easily get rid of him now because they need some help to get a GM quickly. After that? Shanahan might have no job to go to ... he owns a bunch of this mess.

bustaheims

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 12:56:16 PMhttps://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1661066475564679176

LeBrun, Friedman, Mirtle, Johnston all at least floated his name out there. Like I said before, he never seemed likely but wonder where that all came from.

It's also funny to see CJ retweet this just now. "I'm a serious hockey insider who previously wrote there's been industry buzz about the possibility of Armstrong coming to Toronto and apparently that was all a complete fabrication. My bad! Don't forget to place your bet on TOR's next GM at dumbbettingsite.com"

Also, something something something crypto . . . or, is he off that now that it's dying?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Highlander

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 23, 2023, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2023, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:52:31 AMI could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes — and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.
Who is John Maynard Keynes?
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

bustaheims

Quote from: Highlander on May 23, 2023, 03:10:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 23, 2023, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2023, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:52:31 AMI could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes — and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.
Who is John Maynard Keynes?

Lead singer of Tool ;)
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Bender

Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 08:32:23 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:20:46 AMI find it incredibly bizarre that we can somewhat legitimately blame an off-the-cuff comment that Dubas made in a press conference for his demise as the Leafs GM... and potentially (key word: potentially) the demise of the Matthews/Leafs era.

Seriously. This is just such an overblown Only-In-Toronto sort of issue. Dubas, being interviewed after another very disappointing playoff exit, says something pretty mild about the effect the job is having on him and people are acting like he went out like Scarface in Half-Baked.



Only in Toronto for this sport, type of issue. The Leafs and their fan base is hardly unique in the vast world of sport.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bender

Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2023, 08:52:31 AMI could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

What the fans think really should have no bearing on how the franchise is run, and generally it hasn't or the core 4 would've been long gone by now.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

L K

I'm just going to go ahead and throw my name in the hat for GM.  I'll do whatever the board tells me to do as long as there is a pay check in it.

Rob

Coach and GM should just be tmlfans.ca loaded up on iPad behind the bench and sitting in an office at The Ford Performance CentreTM

Bender

Quote from: Nik on May 23, 2023, 09:26:11 AMYeah, that makes sense. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would over think "The end to the season made Dubas re-evaluate what he felt he needed professionally to progress with the Leafs and the Leafs/Shanahan apparently balked at what he wanted".

Im actually surprised you can be surprised at what people should or shouldn't think about the situation based on what is essentially one sentence of new information provided by Kyle via tweet.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender