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Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

Started by CarltonTheBear, May 19, 2023, 10:58:11 AM

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Nik

Quote from: Bender on May 19, 2023, 11:26:32 AMProgress is progress I guess, but it's hard to look at the Leafs/Tampa series and call winning a round progress when if Vasi played like a league average goalie we'd be out of the first round again.

Sure. Feels like I could just as easily say though that if Bobrovsky plays like anything other than a Vezina winner the Leafs very well could have won the 2nd round too.

Regardless, I don't even just mean in terms of playoff results. I think this year's team took a real step forward before the playoffs began. Like I said, I don't think this is a terrible decision. Just not one I'd have made right now. Especially when contracts might force the team to shift drastically next year anyway. The guy you hire to try and keep the skeleton of this year's team together might not be the same guy you'd hire to build something new.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: herman on May 19, 2023, 11:05:23 AMAm I sad or mad?

I'd be sad if this was Kyle's decision. Mad if it was Toronto's.

I'm a bit both. A lot both actually.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Zee


princedpw

There are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes.   

Zee

Quote from: princedpw on May 19, 2023, 11:44:12 AMThere are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes. 

We'd like to welcome our new GM


Bill_Berg


herman

Alright, fire up the Armchair President thread:
TULSKY time
#27 #TeamFasstholes

CarltonTheBear

Eric Tulsky or a Gillis/Gilman reunion.

Highlander

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: herman on May 19, 2023, 11:05:23 AMAm I sad or mad?

I'd be sad if this was Kyle's decision. Mad if it was Toronto's.
Ditto, I think he was suffering from burn out, he is a family man, but he lived for the Leafs.  Back to the dinosaur era.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Deebo


Arn

Hugely disappointing.

But I hope it's for the best for him re his family etc.
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Deebo on May 19, 2023, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2023, 11:54:40 AMEric Tulsky or a Gillis/Gilman reunion.

Who is Gillis?

Mike Gillis, was a candidate to replace Fehr in the NHLPA and is still currently with them in some capacity. Laurence Gilman, been in the Leafs organization since 2018 first as an assistant GM but his current title is now "Senior Vice-President and Governor" with the Marlies. They were the GM/AGM duo for the Canucks between the Burke/Nonis and Benning eras. Seemed very much ahead of their time in running the Canucks then.

Bender

Quote from: princedpw on May 19, 2023, 11:44:12 AMThere are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes.   

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

bustaheims

While I don't think the Leafs' failures in the playoffs lie at Dubas' feet, sometimes you just need a new voice/viewpoint/whatever to get a team over the hump. After enough time with an organization, GMs and coaches can get to the point where they can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I don't know if Dubas was at that point, but, I'm also not sure he wasn't too close to the situation to be able to make the difficult moves that might need to be made or identify the right unconventional/under the radar options that could push the team to the next level in the post season.

Here's hoping the next guy can - and that's it's not just another worn-out retread that's been floating from team to team for the past 15-20 years.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Rob

Quote from: Bender on May 19, 2023, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: princedpw on May 19, 2023, 11:44:12 AMThere are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes.   

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.

Which could very well be the hill that Dubas' Leafs GM career died on. 

I thought Kyle Dubas did an ok job.  At the end of the day this team is part of a multi-billion dollar conglomeration that is interested in winning.  We have heard different players say that everything is the best of the best in Toronto, all trappings and luxuries are taken to the next level.  MLSE is doing that to win, not just to make sure the players are not mad the toilet paper is too scratchy.