Quick links:  Login  |  Sign up  |  Site Rules  |  Support TMLfans

R2, G3: Panthers vs. Maple Leafs - May 7th, 6:30pm - SN, Fan 590

Started by CarltonTheBear, May 06, 2023, 11:01:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.

Gimme a new coach, but I'm definitely not against moving one of the core 4 besides Matthews. Florida moved Huberdeau to get here.
But Tkachuk fell in their laps and let's be honest, they barely made the playoffs.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.
We're lucky to have such a talented team to watch for 82 plus games a year. Playoffs are a crapshoot. Hot goalie, team gets on a heater, bounces don't go your way, whatever. Is what it is. I don't think the core goes anywhere. They've lost 3 close games this series. Last series they won them. It's a game of inches. Matthews hits the crossbar in the early minutes of the game.
We'll see what happens Wednesday but it's not over yet.

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Guilt Trip on May 07, 2023, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.

Gimme a new coach, but I'm definitely not against moving one of the core 4 besides Matthews. Florida moved Huberdeau to get here.
But Tkachuk fell in their laps and let's be honest, they barely made the playoffs.
Quote from: Guilt Trip on May 07, 2023, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.

Gimme a new coach, but I'm definitely not against moving one of the core 4 besides Matthews. Florida moved Huberdeau to get here.
But Tkachuk fell in their laps and let's be honest, they barely made the playoffs.

Remember the year that the Leafs signed Roberts and Corson, and then the team struggled throughout the year, squeaked into the playoffs and the swept the Sens in the first round.  That's kinda like what the Panthers did this year.

I think if the Leafs go out in four, then it's probably Nylander who goes.  Apparently Detroit is interested and they have three firsts in this year's draft.  Maybe you take the three first, draft some young players and use the money to get a couple of high end grinders.

It will be an interesting summer, especially if Dubas leaves.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Nik

Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:05:18 PMI think if Leafs fans saw that, or in Leafs terms, had more guys like (or played a style like) Doug, Wendel and Darcy and saw them leaving it all our there on the ice if things werent going their way, matching the other team in hustle and spirit and forecheck but not on the scoreboard we'd probably think differently as well. I think there's a reason why we still love the 92/93 team and still talk about guys like Tucker and Roberts even though they never won.

I very much disagree with this for a few reasons. Mainly you're just talking about the team playing better. More hustle, more spirit, more effective forechecking...the reason we like those things is because they tend to result in good results on the scoreboard. So, yeah, to me this is like saying "We'd be happier if the Leafs were playing better" which is probably true but perhaps not very revealing either.

But also I just don't agree with the premise. I've been around here when the Leafs weren't very good but were hitting teams and then the frustration is about the team's  lack of finish and skill. Truth is, what fans like is winning. That's why we like the 92/93 team. It was the most successful Leafs team in most of our lifetime.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Matthews isn't going anywhere for the remainder of his contract.
Nylander is the likeliest to go just because of his contract.
Marner has good point totals this playoffs but his gamestyle is the least playoff-adaptible.
Tavares is still a good player but should be making 2/3ds the money.
Rielly has shut me up.  He's delivered most every post-season.
O'Reilly's shiny new toy status has worn off quickly.

Maybe the most impactful decisions are on D.


Bender

Quote from: Nik on May 07, 2023, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:05:18 PMI think if Leafs fans saw that, or in Leafs terms, had more guys like (or played a style like) Doug, Wendel and Darcy and saw them leaving it all our there on the ice if things werent going their way, matching the other team in hustle and spirit and forecheck but not on the scoreboard we'd probably think differently as well. I think there's a reason why we still love the 92/93 team and still talk about guys like Tucker and Roberts even though they never won.

I very much disagree with this for a few reasons. Mainly you're just talking about the team playing better. More hustle, more spirit, more effective forechecking...the reason we like those things is because they tend to result in good results on the scoreboard. So, yeah, to me this is like saying "We'd be happier if the Leafs were playing better" which is probably true but perhaps not very revealing either.

But also I just don't agree with the premise. I've been around here when the Leafs weren't very good but were hitting teams and then the frustration is about the team's  lack of finish and skill. Truth is, what fans like is winning. That's why we like the 92/93 team. It was the most successful Leafs team in most of our lifetime.

Right, but I dont mean hitting vs. Talent in an all or nothing sense. In the case of our current team I think it's also a stylistic difference. The Leafs played passively and I think theres a time and place for that but the team should be capable to match stylistically to the Panthers if we wanted.

Regarding the team comparison, Ok possibly, but I still liked all of those Leafs teams from 98-04 and they didn't all do well, (that JR goal is burned into mu psyche) but I always appreciated the sandpaper and perceived compet3 they brought to most games (save that like 12 shot game against Jersey). You had skill but you also had guys like Tucker and Roberts.

I also think Toronto fans in general like heart and soul, crash and bang, not afraid to mix it up guys.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

TheMightyOdin


Knowing my past leaf trauma I'm preparing for the team to win the next 3 and then lose game 7.
The Catalyst?

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

As you would expect Petrielli lays into Keefe in the MLHS game summary for riding the top players even when they don't produce (looking mostly at Marner).

I actually think Mitch has had a more effective playoff than some of his past showings, but tonight he looked emasculated, scared, and overmatched and was simply awful.

BrownRolo

Quote from: TheMightyOdin on May 07, 2023, 11:19:46 PMKnowing my past leaf trauma I'm preparing for the team to win the next 3 and then lose game 7.

Nah. This team honestly would just rather not be playing. They won't be able to put in the effort to win Game 4.

BrownRolo

Quote from: Guilt Trip on May 07, 2023, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.

Gimme a new coach, but I'm definitely not against moving one of the core 4 besides Matthews. Florida moved Huberdeau to get here.
But Tkachuk fell in their laps and let's be honest, they barely made the playoffs.

Tkachuk did not fall into their laps. They gave up a huge amount to get him. And at the time a lot of people were saying it was a steal of a deal for the Flames. It's pretty obvious you need these type of hardnosed players to succeed in the playoffs. You look at the Oilers. They've got some major bite to them. They've got a swagger. This Leaf team always plays like it's a preseason game and they don't want to get hurt. The Leafs needed to make a big change to this core. It's something Dubas should have done after the Habs series. It was obvious then and it's been obvious since. Dubas made great deals on paper. In the regular season a lot of them looked great. Has there been one player in this playoffs that has really stoodout? I honestly can't think of one player. They've all just been so mediocre.

If I'm management I'm giving Dubas/Keefe the boot. I'm bringing in a new GM. That new GM needs to deal Marner. That new GM needs to sign Matthews now and I'm not giving Matthews a big raise. If he wants a big raise and is unwilling to sign before the season starts I'm trading him too. You can not let Matthews walk to free agency. The future isn't looking too bright in Leafland if I'm being honest.

BrownRolo

Quote from: Guilt Trip on May 07, 2023, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on May 07, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 07, 2023, 10:01:48 PMThis may be heresy, but after cooling off a bit I wonder about blowing up the core entirely and changing the playstyle.  This group has been a helluva lot of fun to watch during the season, and there is a lot more time spent watching that than the playoffs.

From a purely odds-based perspective the chances of winning the Cup are so low, for any team.

So from an overall-amount-of-fun perspective, I'm tempted to let this group get one last chance together next year ... with a new coach.

Gimme a new coach, but I'm definitely not against moving one of the core 4 besides Matthews. Florida moved Huberdeau to get here.
But Tkachuk fell in their laps and let's be honest, they barely made the playoffs.

Oh also to add to the "barely made the playoffs" Like that is something to discredit them. Who gives a flying f**k if they barely made the playoffs? Let's ask the Panthers. You could be heading to the 3rd round or you could get swept in the 2nd round but finish 2nd in the ATL. What would you choose? Ask the fans. No one cares about the regular season. Especially Leaf fans.

OldTimeHockey

So I missed the first half of the game but caught the bottom half of the second, the third, and OT

What was most concerning to me, and it's probably been stated above, is that they showed no desire to win. They showed a desire "not to lose". The overtime goal highlighted it. Why would a team suddenly go into a penalty kill formation, stop moving their feet, and start watching the puck. The last 6 minutes of the 3rd looked exactly the same way. They had the motto of "Let's not give up a goal. Please don't give up a goal. We can't lose this game. Oh please don't score on us"...Once you go into that mindset, you're defeated. It's a depressing state to be in and a tough one to climb out of.

I've been a pretty upbeat, positive supporter of this team on here, but this is Montreal and Columbus regurgitated.They almost looked like they were trying to get Keefe fired.


As a side note, did Keefe have a time out still in the OT? I would have used it after the first two shifts that we couldn't get out of our end.

Significantly Insignificant

The comparison to Florida from last year is also appropriate because Florida made a bunch of moves last year at the deadline to become harder to play against in the playoffs.  Then they lost in the second round.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bender

Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on May 08, 2023, 06:50:49 AMThe comparison to Florida from last year is also appropriate because Florida made a bunch of moves last year at the deadline to become harder to play against in the playoffs.  Then they lost in the second round.

Which is the point in that they traded arguably their best player for Tkachuk. Obviously this won't be re-created and Tkachuk is a bit of a unicorn, but there's this crash and bang element to the Panthers game that they didn't have before. They're constantly mixing it up and pressuring you to make plays and for you to fumble the puck. Worked like a charm on Marner.

I still think if they put up a good effort yesterday, maybe had the series at 1-1 and adjusted after realizing their game wasn't working and played a tight and contested OT and are down 2-1 you could at least think they could still bring it. But going down 3-0 in the fashion that they did, scoring only 2 goals for a handful of games now, to some degree lucking out of the first round... let alone literally their playoffs history for the last 6yrs I think we've all seen enough out of this iteration of this team and some offseason surgery is sorely needed.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

BrownRolo

Can someone explain to me why Keefe did not break up Matthews and Marner when they were playing so horrible?