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The Core

Started by hobarth, May 06, 2023, 09:35:35 PM

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Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Quote from: bustaheims on May 16, 2023, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 16, 2023, 01:22:44 PMSandin (and Lilejgren) got badly burned against Boston's forecheck back in Feb or something, and I think that sealed his fate with Dubas.  But part of that is lack of experience.  Otherwise he's exactly what people now say the Leafs lacked: a Rielly-lite guy who can dance the line, thread pucks through, etc.  And on the cheap.  Dubas made a pretty big mistake there.

His skating isn't good enough to take on the responsibilities the team needs from him. He's good in the offensive zone, but, against a strong forecheck, he struggles to get it out of the defensive end. It's the latter that the team needs improvement in - moving the puck out of the zone. As Guilt Trip correctly points out, he would have been eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.

The Leafs need a guy who can skate the puck out efficiently against a heavy forecheck. Sandin is not that guy and may never be that guy.

I know we don't agree on this, but I don't agree.  I don't see the skating problems you're claiming.  They gave up on him too early.

And TBH pretty much every one of them got eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.  Honestly, the Leafs need to study up on playoff interference and how to make it work.  Everybody else uses it to slow down the kamikazes.

RedLeaf

In real general terms ... I think the team needs more 'bite'
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

Rob

Quote from: RedLeaf on May 16, 2023, 05:17:43 PMIn real general terms ... I think the team needs more 'bite'



Bender

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 16, 2023, 03:53:36 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 16, 2023, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 16, 2023, 01:22:44 PMSandin (and Lilejgren) got badly burned against Boston's forecheck back in Feb or something, and I think that sealed his fate with Dubas.  But part of that is lack of experience.  Otherwise he's exactly what people now say the Leafs lacked: a Rielly-lite guy who can dance the line, thread pucks through, etc.  And on the cheap.  Dubas made a pretty big mistake there.

His skating isn't good enough to take on the responsibilities the team needs from him. He's good in the offensive zone, but, against a strong forecheck, he struggles to get it out of the defensive end. It's the latter that the team needs improvement in - moving the puck out of the zone. As Guilt Trip correctly points out, he would have been eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.

The Leafs need a guy who can skate the puck out efficiently against a heavy forecheck. Sandin is not that guy and may never be that guy.

I know we don't agree on this, but I don't agree.  I don't see the skating problems you're claiming.  They gave up on him too early.

And TBH pretty much every one of them got eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.  Honestly, the Leafs need to study up on playoff interference and how to make it work.  Everybody else uses it to slow down the kamikazes.

Sandin will be a good player. He got eaten alive as soon as he was traded. All those points but a massively negative player ar 5 on 5, which is where we lost.

Holl ran a pick and got called, Gudas didn't. The Leafs never get away woth shit. I also think this team doesn't have it in them to play a gritty game.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

bustaheims

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 16, 2023, 03:53:36 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 16, 2023, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 16, 2023, 01:22:44 PMSandin (and Lilejgren) got badly burned against Boston's forecheck back in Feb or something, and I think that sealed his fate with Dubas.  But part of that is lack of experience.  Otherwise he's exactly what people now say the Leafs lacked: a Rielly-lite guy who can dance the line, thread pucks through, etc.  And on the cheap.  Dubas made a pretty big mistake there.

His skating isn't good enough to take on the responsibilities the team needs from him. He's good in the offensive zone, but, against a strong forecheck, he struggles to get it out of the defensive end. It's the latter that the team needs improvement in - moving the puck out of the zone. As Guilt Trip correctly points out, he would have been eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.

The Leafs need a guy who can skate the puck out efficiently against a heavy forecheck. Sandin is not that guy and may never be that guy.

I know we don't agree on this, but I don't agree.  I don't see the skating problems you're claiming.  They gave up on him too early.

And TBH pretty much every one of them got eaten alive by Florida's forecheck.  Honestly, the Leafs need to study up on playoff interference and how to make it work.  Everybody else uses it to slow down the kamikazes.

That's because, other than Rielly, none of them are particularly swift skaters or good at skating with the puck. Sandin's skating speed was identified as an issue well before he was drafted. This isn't news or my opinion. This is what the overwhelming majority of the hockey world has observed. He's not painfully slow, but he's only average at best, regardless of whether or not you agree with that.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: Bender on May 16, 2023, 05:34:37 PMHoll ran a pick and got called, Gudas didn't. The Leafs never get away woth shit.

Man I was raging about that Holl interference call last night to some buddies. Leafs won that series.

hobarth

QuoteLots of players were asked about injuries, and only Auston Matthews half-indicated he was nursing something beyond the usual bumps and bruises

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/05/16/locker-cleanout-day-recap-kyle-dubas-strikes-a-different-tone/

That's our Austin, every year.






mr grieves

To market we shall go...

Walkin' around money: one 100-point, Selke finalist right winger with 2 years left on deal.

Shopping list: two or (with salary dump?) three of — a 20-23yo emerging top-6 forward (ideally C/RW) who can go to the net, has good hands and a decent 2-way game; a mid/late-20s defenseman who can move the puck; a team's #2 prospect; a first round pick.

Store: a team that's been rebuilding/retooling, is/getting impatient, has incentives to accelerate their move into the playoffs or contention.

CarltonTheBear

#83
Quote from: mr grieves on May 18, 2023, 10:01:42 AMTo market we shall go...

Walkin' around money: one 100-point, Selke finalist right winger with 2 years left on deal.

Shopping list: two or (with salary dump?) three of — a 20-23yo emerging top-6 forward (ideally C/RW) who can go to the net, has good hands and a decent 2-way game; a mid/late-20s defenseman who can move the puck; a team's #2 prospect; a first round pick.

Store: a team that's been rebuilding/retooling, is/getting impatient, has incentives to accelerate their move into the playoffs or contention.

The "store" kinda screams LA. Not sure they fit the exact shopping list you laid out but something around Kempe + Byfield/Kaliev + draft pick could make some sense.

hobarth

I'd love to see that LA trade.

Dappleganger

A Byfield/Marner swap was the one that came to mind for me.

hobarth

TO brings back the core, brings back the coach and GM, is there any reason to expect improvement or even be excited about the team.?

Seattle won a round of playoffs in their 2nd year, Vegas did even better in their first year, why can't TO at least match those teams. St.L. won a Cup recently with one superstar, beyond that they had 3 strong lines , a good d and an emerging(hot) goalie.

Pitts. won a Cup with probably one of the worst ds to win a Cup ever, Chicago won with Niemla as their goalie, it really does seem like TO is cursed.

SJ had probably one of the best teams perennially for like 15 years, they never won a Cup.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: hobarth on May 18, 2023, 05:42:54 PMTO brings back the core, brings back the coach and GM, is there any reason to expect improvement or even be excited about the team.?

Seattle won a round of playoffs in their 2nd year, Vegas did even better in their first year, why can't TO at least match those teams. St.L. won a Cup recently with one superstar, beyond that they had 3 strong lines , a good d and an emerging(hot) goalie.

Pitts. won a Cup with probably one of the worst ds to win a Cup ever, Chicago won with Niemla as their goalie, it really does seem like TO is cursed.

SJ had probably one of the best teams perennially for like 15 years, they never won a Cup.
It depends what else is done to the team. And yes it would be exciting. This is a very good team. They have their warts. You have to keep going, whether you trade say a Marner or not. You gotta find the right chemistry. I still think the Leafs lack, besides a solid Muzz type, a solid top 6LW. Knies seems to be a fit there but we need another guy. Can it be JT if he moves to wing and then they need a Centre. Maybe it's Robertson. I don't know. The team still lacks secondary scoring. I hope they stop adding older guys to the bottom 6 and bring the kids up and let them play. I watched a lot of Marlies games this year and guys like Steeves, Abruzzese, McMann, Holmberg and SDA are knocking on the door. SDA is an interesting guy for me. I know he was injured this year but I don't know why he never got a longer look. This guy does everything at high speed. Great set of hands and improved a lot defensively from previous years.
 
Anyway to be successful you also need a lot of luck to win. Game 1 and 3 Matthews misses goals on the 1st shift by and inch. They go in, things change. Going to be an interesting off season, that's for sure.

Nik

#88
Quote from: hobarth on May 18, 2023, 05:42:54 PMPitts. won a Cup with probably one of the worst ds to win a Cup ever, Chicago won with Niemla as their goalie, it really does seem like TO is cursed.

That Chicago team probably had the single best collection of players in the entire cap era. Those Pittsburgh teams were led by maybe the single best 1-2 punch at C in the history of the game and had Phil Kessel on the 3rd line.

They didn't win with alchemy. They were better teams than the Leafs.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

OldTimeHockey

Quote from: hobarth on May 18, 2023, 05:42:54 PMTO brings back the core, brings back the coach and GM, is there any reason to expect improvement or even be excited about the team.?

Seattle won a round of playoffs in their 2nd year, Vegas did even better in their first year, why can't TO at least match those teams. St.L. won a Cup recently with one superstar, beyond that they had 3 strong lines , a good d and an emerging(hot) goalie.

Pitts. won a Cup with probably one of the worst ds to win a Cup ever, Chicago won with Niemla as their goalie, it really does seem like TO is cursed.

SJ had probably one of the best teams perennially for like 15 years, they never won a Cup.

What are you trying to convince everyone of here? That sometimes the best team wins and sometimes they lose?