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TRADE DAY: Sandin / Engvall / Schenn

Started by bustaheims, February 28, 2023, 03:57:07 PM

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bustaheims

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

CarltonTheBear

#1
I kinda said my piece about Sandin a few weeks ago. Good guy, not super high on his potential. I don't have a problem with moving him, although I figured he'd get more than a very late 1st rounder (apparently it's Boston's pick). If it was Washington's pick I think I'd have given this the thumbs up.

princedpw

I liked Sandin.  Who is Gustafson?

bustaheims

Quote from: princedpw on February 28, 2023, 04:00:30 PMI liked Sandin.  Who is Gustafson?

Puck moving D. Basically a 3rd pairing PP specialist. Also, $600K cheaper on the cap than Sandin.

That being said, won't be surprised if the Leafs flip him, too.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: bustaheims on February 28, 2023, 04:01:10 PM
Quote from: princedpw on February 28, 2023, 04:00:30 PMI liked Sandin.  Who is Gustafson?

Puck moving D. Basically a 3rd pairing PP specialist. Also, $600K cheaper on the cap than Sandin.

That being said, won't be surprised if the Leafs flip him, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs flipped him before Friday. He'd a decent defenceman but not in Toronto's top-6. And they have Timmins as an offensive depth guy.

L K

#5
A really late 1st for Sandin isn't exactly what I would consider a good return, particular when he was signed to a cheap deal next year.

That being said, he was the odd man out after the McCabe trade.  I think the Leafs should have looked at him playing over Holl but that just wasn't going to happen with Keefe as the coach.  It's a great opportunity for Timmins to get into the top 6 next year.

The difference in salary the Leafs exchanged here still doesn't get them under the cap when Murray comes back.  I wonder if Gustafson and the 1st could be on the move before Friday (not likely in the same deal)

CarltonTheBear

#6
Quote from: L K on February 28, 2023, 04:05:45 PMThe difference in salary the Leafs exchanged here still doesn't get them under the cap when Murray comes back.

Waiving or trading one of Gustafsson or ZAR gives the Leafs cap space to take Murray off LTIR. Doing both gives them space for Murray and Knies. I think that's the play here since they're both on the outside of the line-up.

princedpw

Combining trades:

In:
Jake McCabe 50% retained for 2.5 years,
Sam Lafferty,
conditional 2024 5th,
conditional 2025 5th,
2023 1st

Out:
Sandin,
a conditional 2025 1st,
2026 2nd,
Joey Anderson,
Pavel Gogolev

Doing some math:

In:
Jake McCabe 50% retained for 2.5 years
Sam Lafferty,
2 conditional 5ths

Out:
Sandin,
2026 2nd round pick,
minor leaguers no one cares about

(modulo a late first rounder now vs an earlier first rounder in 2 years ... equivalent value?)

Did we just trade Mccabe at 50% retained for Sandin?  Seems like a great deal.  Sandin may be earning more than Mccabe in 2 years.

RedLeaf

"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

A Weekend at Bernier's

And, to boot, Erik Gustafsson is not nothing.  He's got 38 points this year (I did a double-take) and scored 17 goals and 60 points with Chicago in 18-19.  30 years old, looks like he'll be an UFA at the end of this year.

bustaheims

Quote from: L K on February 28, 2023, 04:05:45 PMA really late 1st for Sandin isn't exactly what I would consider a good return, particular when he was signed to a cheap deal next year.

If they can flip Gustafsson for a decent return, it could make the deal look better. As it stands right now, it's kinda meh.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Bender

Quote from: L K on February 28, 2023, 04:05:45 PMA really late 1st for Sandin isn't exactly what I would consider a good return, particular when he was signed to a cheap deal next year.

That being said, he was the odd man out after the McCabe trade.  I think the Leafs should have looked at him playing over Holl but that just wasn't going to happen with Keefe as the coach.  It's a great opportunity for Timmins to get into the top 6 next year.

The difference in salary the Leafs exchanged here still doesn't get them under the cap when Murray comes back.  I wonder if Gustafson and the 1st could be on the move before Friday (not likely in the same deal)

I mean Gustafsson was also included. I think he has some value, he's racked up a good amount of pts this year. Had a great game against the Leafs iirc. I mean, I'm kind of meh on Sandin at this point so I don't really think that's out of line, esp when that's near where we picked him.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Peter D.

Depends how one views Sandin.  If they see top 3/4 potential and a 40+ player, then not sure this is a good move.  If he's just a run-of-the-mill second pair D, then good to recoup a late 1st which likely is used for another asset prior to the deadline.

Sandin has left a bit more to be desired, but I also understand that he is 22 and defencemen usually take longer to come into their own.  Don't mind the trade now, but I can see us looking back in a few years and saying he was one we gave up on too early. 

CarltonTheBear

He still has some shine on him, so I did think he could get more than this, but in 2 or so years I think people will look back on this the same way they do the Kapanen and Dermott deals. Or they won't and I'll look like an idiot. Bookmark either way I guess.

L K

I will say that his contract negotiations being slightly tense rubbed me in the wrong way, particularly compared to how Nylander got treated (for ultimately signing a value contract in the end that sounded like the Leafs were the ones who weren't willing to offer earlier).  I know he was looking for playing time surety over money but just comparing the development path of Liljegren I've liked how he has handled his time in the organization more (and he's also the better defenseman at this point)