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Islanders @ Maple Leafs - Nov. 21st, 7:30pm - SN, Fan 590

Started by CarltonTheBear, November 21, 2022, 09:44:39 AM

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Frank E

Quote from: bustaheims on November 21, 2022, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: Rob on November 21, 2022, 03:09:26 PMI think the argument is, what exactly is sitting in the press box doing for his development?   

Which is a valid question, of course, but secondary to what is best for the Leafs performance this season - and, with the inconsistencies in his play and the need for him to round out his game more, I'm not sure Robertson being in the lineup is the right answer most nights.

The Leafs are in a tough spot with him - he's clearly too good for the AHL, but he hasn't shown enough consistency in offensive production to overlook the areas he needs to improve away from the puck to be a full time NHLer.

I'm just having a hard time with this argument...if he's not good enough at things, and those things are keeping him from an NHL spot, then send him to the development league to work on those things.  "The NHL is not a developmental league".

I get that he can pour on points in the A, but he'll also have to be responsible with the puck/learn where to be if he wants the call-up.

bustaheims

Quote from: Frank E on November 21, 2022, 03:59:42 PMI'm just having a hard time with this argument...if he's not good enough at things, and those things are keeping him from an NHL spot, then send him to the development league to work on those things.  "The NHL is not a developmental league".

I get that he can pour on points in the A, but he'll also have to be responsible with the puck/learn where to be if he wants the call-up.

It's hard to learn when you're already so far ahead of a significant portion of your competition. Too easy to fall back on what worked instead of working on areas that need work. Some players can do it, some can't. Takes a very specific mindset that maybe the Leafs have identified Robertson as not having. That doesn't mean he won't learn, just that getting him to learn it at the AHL level may not be realistic. He needs to go in games, I agree, but the team needs to focus on winning games more than anything else.

Quite honestly, it's looking like there isn't a great "traditional" path forward to developing Robertson. So, the team has to try things that might not make sense to us and might not work, but the binary options we're looking at - play him or send him down - don't appear to be the best approaches.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

herman

Quote from: bustaheims on November 21, 2022, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: Rob on November 21, 2022, 03:09:26 PMI think the argument is, what exactly is sitting in the press box doing for his development? 

Which is a valid question, of course, but secondary to what is best for the Leafs performance this season - and, with the inconsistencies in his play and the need for him to round out his game more, I'm not sure Robertson being in the lineup is the right answer most nights.

The Leafs are in a tough spot with him - he's clearly too good for the AHL, but he hasn't shown enough consistency in offensive production to overlook the areas he needs to improve away from the puck to be a full time NHLer.

This ^

Benefits of NHL pressbox: he's still in practices with the team and the skills coaches, so he's learning at a different pace than he would in the AHL grind. Watching the games from the sky gives a better perspective on off-puck play (forecheck routes, what opposing defenses do on retrievals, NZ puck management). He's up there with Jake Muzzin, who is a pretty good brain to pick on how to annoy/bypass good defensemen. If I was on the coaching staff, he'd have an assignment on looking for system improvements, etc. and identifying actionables for his own game in the role the coaching staff have in mind for him. Oh, and his pay is significantly higher while sitting, than riding the bus for the Marlies.

Eventually, he will play. This isn't a Babcock/Holl situation.

By the by: The Marlies did this at times with players like Mason Marchment, who needed to fix certain things (skating, bulking).
"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

Downtown

Can't be cheering for Connor Brown no more.

Arn

Quote from: herman on November 21, 2022, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on November 21, 2022, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: Rob on November 21, 2022, 03:09:26 PMI think the argument is, what exactly is sitting in the press box doing for his development? 

Which is a valid question, of course, but secondary to what is best for the Leafs performance this season - and, with the inconsistencies in his play and the need for him to round out his game more, I'm not sure Robertson being in the lineup is the right answer most nights.

The Leafs are in a tough spot with him - he's clearly too good for the AHL, but he hasn't shown enough consistency in offensive production to overlook the areas he needs to improve away from the puck to be a full time NHLer.

This ^

Benefits of NHL pressbox: he's still in practices with the team and the skills coaches, so he's learning at a different pace than he would in the AHL grind. Watching the games from the sky gives a better perspective on off-puck play (forecheck routes, what opposing defenses do on retrievals, NZ puck management). He's up there with Jake Muzzin, who is a pretty good brain to pick on how to annoy/bypass good defensemen. If I was on the coaching staff, he'd have an assignment on looking for system improvements, etc. and identifying actionables for his own game in the role the coaching staff have in mind for him. Oh, and his pay is significantly higher while sitting, than riding the bus for the Marlies.

Eventually, he will play. This isn't a Babcock/Holl situation.

By the by: The Marlies did this at times with players like Mason Marchment, who needed to fix certain things (skating, bulking).

This is an area where the likes of the football "loans" system would pay off. He doesn't quite fit in a contending team's roster, but too good for the "lower divisions". No way of "loaning" him to someone like a the red wings or Canucks or something for a season where he can play good NHL minutes.
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

Frank E

Quote from: bustaheims on November 21, 2022, 03:40:55 PMWhich is a valid question, of course, but secondary to what is best for the Leafs performance this season - and, with the inconsistencies in his play and the need for him to round out his game more, I'm not sure Robertson being in the lineup is the right answer most nights.

If the Leafs playing Nick Robertson with some consistency is really going to affect the Leafs' chances of success this regular season, then maybe we should be questioning other things with more voracity.

Quote from: bustaheims on November 21, 2022, 03:40:55 PMThe Leafs are in a tough spot with him - he's clearly too good for the AHL, but he hasn't shown enough consistency in offensive production to overlook the areas he needs to improve away from the puck to be a full time NHLer.

Is he though?  He has played a grand total of 51 games in the AHL, and only played 28 games there last season.  He's a point per game player in his 28 games last year, and there are currently about 20 or so players playing at at least that pace this season, and many at far greater than that pace.

It's a least arguable that if he went there and dominated the score sheet while learning the more finer aspects of the game, it's better than practicing and pressboxing...even if the paycheque is better in the very very short term at the expense of a long career's worth of superior earnings. 


azzurri63

Well let's hope for another strong effort. Hoping Kallgren has a decent game which may be his last for a while seeing how Samsonov is near to returning. Isles have slipped recently after a good run. Going to be a tough one the way the Isles play. GLG.

herman

Justin Holl taking out Marner while on an extended attack lol
"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

Nylander is flying around out there like some kind of demi-god.

herman

"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

herman

Keefe is airdropping the Tavares line on the fly against tired opposing lines to great effect.
"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

herman

"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

herman

"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

First the Isles fended off our early push, then they took momentum, then they get a dirty one.

Bill_Berg_is_sad

Leafs outplaying their opponent, can't score a goal, get a fluke goal against. Yep, everything is normal.