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Islanders @ Maple Leafs - Nov. 21st, 7:30pm - SN, Fan 590

Started by CarltonTheBear, November 21, 2022, 09:44:39 AM

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CarltonTheBear

New York Islanders
11-8-0, 22 points
@
Toronto Maple Leafs
10-5-4, 24 points



                                                                      Projected
Lineups
                                                                     
Parise-Barzal-Wahlstrom
Lee-Nelson-Beauvillier
Bailey-Pageau-Palmieri
Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Romanov-Dobson
Pelech-Pulock
Aho-Mayfield

Sorokin
Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Kerfoot-Tavares-Marner
Engvall-Holmberg-Jarnkrok
ZAR-Kampf-Malgin

Rielly-Benn
Giordano-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

Murray



Scratches
Ross Johnston
Robin Salo
Wayne Simmonds
Nicholas Robertson



Injuries
•Kyle Clifford - Shoulder - Injured Reserve
•Jake Muzzin - Neck - Injured Reserve
•TJ Brodie - Oblique - Injured Reserve
•Ilya Samsonov - Knee - Injured Reserve



Game notes
NYI
•Ilya Sorokin (7-5-0, 2.41 GAA, .925 Sv%) will likely start for the Islanders
•The Islanders are off to a better than expected start to the season as they currently sit 3rd in the Metro division. They have been tapering off a little bit recently though and their underlying numbers aren't particularly strong either so I wouldn't expect them to stay in a playoff position for very long
•The real Mat Barzal might have finally showed up this season again. He has 19 assists and 21 points in 19 games this season. The last time he had a PPG season was in his rookie year

TOR
•Matt Murray (2-1-1, 2.76 GAA, .913 Sv%) will likely start for the Maple Leafs



                                                                            Streams                                                                           
NHL66
Sportsurge

Zee

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on November 21, 2022, 09:44:39 AM
Buffalo Sabres
11-8-0, 22 points
@
Toronto Maple Leafs
10-5-4, 24 points



                                                                      Projected
Lineups
                                                                     
Parise-Barzal-Wahlstrom
Lee-Nelson-Beauvillier
Bailey-Pageau-Palmieri
Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Romanov-Dobson
Pelech-Pulock
Aho-Mayfield

Sorokin
Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Kerfoot-Tavares-Marner
Engvall-Holmberg-Jarnkrok
ZAR-Kampf-Malgin

Rielly-Benn
Giordano-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren

Murray



Scratches
Ross Johnston
Robin Salo
Wayne Simmonds
Nicholas Robertson



Injuries
•Kyle Clifford - Shoulder - Injured Reserve
•Jake Muzzin - Neck - Injured Reserve
•TJ Brodie - Oblique - Injured Reserve
•Ilya Samsonov - Knee - Injured Reserve



Game notes
NYI
•Ilya Sorokin (7-5-0, 2.41 GAA, .925 Sv%) will likely start for the Islanders
•The Islanders are off to a better than expected start to the season as they currently sit 3rd in the Metro division. They have been tapering off a little bit recently though and their underlying numbers aren't particularly strong either so I wouldn't expect them to stay in a playoff position for very long
•The real Mat Barzal might have finally showed up this season again. He has 19 assists and 21 points in 19 games this season. The last time he had a PPG season was in his rookie year

TOR
•Matt Murray (2-1-1, 2.76 GAA, .913 Sv%) will likely start for the Maple Leafs



                                                                            Streams                                                                           
NHL66
Sportsurge


Lou made the Islanders into the Sabres?

L K

The Leafs are 5th in the league in points (10th in point percentage).  Not too shabby giving how awful they looked in October.

Frank E

Quote from: L K on November 21, 2022, 10:22:25 AMThe Leafs are 5th in the league in points (10th in point percentage).  Not too shabby giving how awful they looked in October.

As the board's Chief Medical Analyst, LK, would you think it prudent to maybe rest Murray tonight?

He played Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, now it's Monday.


louisstamos

Quote from: Frank E on November 21, 2022, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: L K on November 21, 2022, 10:22:25 AMThe Leafs are 5th in the league in points (10th in point percentage).  Not too shabby giving how awful they looked in October.

As the board's Chief Medical Analyst, LK, would you think it prudent to maybe rest Murray tonight?

He played Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, now it's Monday.



*looks at schedule*

This would make sense.  Play Kallgren vs the Islanders tonight, and have a rested Murray ready vs New Jersey on Wednesday.

CarltonTheBear



Frank E


L K

Quote from: Frank E on November 21, 2022, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: L K on November 21, 2022, 10:22:25 AMThe Leafs are 5th in the league in points (10th in point percentage).  Not too shabby giving how awful they looked in October.

As the board's Chief Medical Analyst, LK, would you think it prudent to maybe rest Murray tonight?

He played Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, now it's Monday.



Yeah that would certainly be my approach.  He has chronic injury concerns and just came back.  I don't think the Leafs have made things overly difficult on Murray but he hasn't had quiet games either. 

L K


herman

Quote from: L K on November 21, 2022, 12:43:05 PMRobertson scratched AGAIN........this is unacceptable

I'm still okay with the scratching so far. I think the forum reboots wiped out my previous treatise as to why this is not the end of the world and should be for the best.

I'll preface by reminding everyone that I am a big fan of Nick Robertson: his motor, his gumption, his scintillating shot, all that. But he is not a perfect player and the team he is trying to break into is in a certain position of their contention cycle with certain requirements of their depth players.

In this contention window, the Leafs coaching staff are rightly prioritizing what's controllable and reliable with their cheapo depth -- PK effort, effective forechecking, defensively useful -- instead of outright scoring. At bottom 6 levels, scoring is inconsistent even with the most talented shooters (see Martin Frk and Mike Hoffman for example); if they were consistent scorers they wouldn't be bottom-sixers or cheapo, right?

If Robertson isn't scoring nearly at will, then is he still useful on the ice in those aforementioned ways? I'd say not at this time. His ice time, outside of that really fun debut (OT winner), has been anodyne at best, and generally possession-negative on a possession-obsessed team. This isn't a slight on Robertson's effort or anything like that, it's just a matter of developing the experience and figuring out his engagement levels. We all know he wants to go full tilt every shift, but that's literally unsustainable even for larger folk like Hyman (who always breaks down at playoff time), let alone someone of Robertson's size and skating style.

So why is NHL healthy scratch better than AHL top minutes? For now, I'd argue it is because the AHL has proven to be too easy for Robertson; that's a recipe for bad habits because he can just get away with slop when playing on the Marlies. Robertson needs to work on developing purpose to his off-puck reads and play. Practice with the Leafs and watching the game flow and example of his peers to start developing and refining that sense is a valid approach.

Surely he's better than Jarnkrok/Engvall/Kerfoot? Maybe at shooting the puck in a vacuum, but the team needs people who can reliably PK and win forechecks regularly. Forechecking:shooting opportunities are like 15:1 per game, and not winning puck battles generally saps shooting opportunities for the whole line.

Is there any hope for him? Yeah, he's still very good and he plays a position of need in the organization (top-6 LW); he recognizes his primary asset is not his shooting but his ability to move his feet and force turnovers and get to space. If the Leafs were on the front end of their rebuild they'd probably be playing him the way the Habs are leaning on Caufield.
"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

Frank E

I think there's quite a bit of space between leaning on Robertson like the habs do Caufield, and scratching him in four straight games.

herman

Quote from: Frank E on November 21, 2022, 02:09:33 PMI think there's quite a bit of space between leaning on Robertson like the habs do Caufield, and scratching him in four straight games.

Montreal doesn't have Marner/Nylander, so it's a different ecosystem niche to fill. The Leafs top lines need someone who can soak up the forechecking efforts (Bunting) and make plays. Like it's mentally very easy to see where Knies would fit on this roster, but more difficult to find a spot for Robertson without significant sheltering. Robertson is the better player at the moment to boot.
"Can't let the poison get to you"
#BeBlessed #scumbag

Rob

Quote from: herman on November 21, 2022, 02:28:38 PM
Quote from: Frank E on November 21, 2022, 02:09:33 PMI think there's quite a bit of space between leaning on Robertson like the habs do Caufield, and scratching him in four straight games.

Montreal doesn't have Marner/Nylander, so it's a different ecosystem niche to fill. The Leafs top lines need someone who can soak up the forechecking efforts (Bunting) and make plays. Like it's mentally very easy to see where Knies would fit on this roster, but more difficult to find a spot for Robertson without significant sheltering. Robertson is the better player at the moment to boot.


I think the argument is, what exactly is sitting in the press box doing for his development?   

bustaheims

Quote from: Rob on November 21, 2022, 03:09:26 PMI think the argument is, what exactly is sitting in the press box doing for his development?   

Which is a valid question, of course, but secondary to what is best for the Leafs performance this season - and, with the inconsistencies in his play and the need for him to round out his game more, I'm not sure Robertson being in the lineup is the right answer most nights.

The Leafs are in a tough spot with him - he's clearly too good for the AHL, but he hasn't shown enough consistency in offensive production to overlook the areas he needs to improve away from the puck to be a full time NHLer.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan