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Muzzin and Brodie

Started by Rick Couchman, November 14, 2022, 12:05:31 PM

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Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:02:00 PMThe only theory I have as to why they hung on to Muzzin so tightly (besides liking him) was he wouldn't pass the physical... Really stings seeing as how Durzi is progressing.
You have to give something up to get something good and Muzz was def good. Sure it would be nice to still have Durzi but I think both teams win that deal. He wouldn't have played if he didn't pass his physical.

Bender

Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 14, 2022, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:02:00 PMThe only theory I have as to why they hung on to Muzzin so tightly (besides liking him) was he wouldn't pass the physical... Really stings seeing as how Durzi is progressing.
You have to give something up to get something good and Muzz was def good. Sure it would be nice to still have Durzi but I think both teams win that deal. He wouldn't have played if he didn't pass his physical.

He was good when healthy earlier on, but I just feel like we've really hitched our wagon on hoping guys that have an injury or inconsistency history don't have injuries or inconsistency in order to get a reasonable cap hit. I also think a number of people were worried about Muzzin's injury history when he signed the extension, and I've been in the trade Muzzin camp for a while - he hasn't been consistent even when healthy lately (except 7 games in the playoffs, but why are we basing our decision on 7 games?)

I feel for Muzzin as a player and as a person, but from a roster management perspective we let a young defenseman go when we need as many young, cheap players to fill out our rosters as possible, especially with less miles on the body. The Leafs are getting older and slower, and seeing assets disappear year after year either fixing mistakes or own rentaling or overspending on pending UFAs at the deadline... It's frustrating.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender


Nik

Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:39:43 PMI feel for Muzzin as a player and as a person, but from a roster management perspective we let a young defenseman go when we need as many young, cheap players to fill out our rosters as possible, especially with less miles on the body. The Leafs are getting older and slower, and seeing assets disappear year after year either fixing mistakes or own rentaling or overspending on pending UFAs at the deadline... It's frustrating.

I appreciate where you're coming from but I think, to some extent, it's misguided here. When the Muzzin trade happened nobody was like "Hey, we have a fun young team, let's wait until our young defensemen to develop before trying to make a deep push into the playoffs". They traded for Muzzin on the basis of trying to win and, while we know the results of that aren't what we wanted, I don't think the trade looks bad in hindsight just on that basis.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

bustaheims

Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:02:00 PMThe only theory I have as to why they hung on to Muzzin so tightly (besides liking him) was he wouldn't pass the physical... Really stings seeing as how Durzi is progressing.

I think you're overthinking things here. It's likely much more simple than that - teams weren't willing to offer value the Leafs were willing to accept for Muzzin. The reasoning from the other teams isn't really important. The Leafs weren't willing to move him for less than they valued him.

It's likely as simple as this - other teams saw him as the Leafs trying to dump cap. The Leafs didn't see him that way. Hard to make a deal in that scenario.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Arn

I did a quick google. Dr Google always throws up the worst case scenario, but I think it's worth having the context.

QuoteCervical spinal cord injuries often involve permanent complete or partial loss of sensory function , and many associated complications. As is the case with all injuries of the spinal cord, injuries located higher on the spine will be more severe, with high cervical spinal cord injury often being fatal.

Now, I always liked Muzzin. As a player and he seemed just a good all round dude.

I like that Dubas is talking about him as a person. I don't think we should be looking at him as an asset when it comes to an injury like that. It's about him and his family.
I Saw Jay McClement Score.

Bill_Berg_is_sad

Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:39:43 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 14, 2022, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:02:00 PMThe only theory I have as to why they hung on to Muzzin so tightly (besides liking him) was he wouldn't pass the physical... Really stings seeing as how Durzi is progressing.
You have to give something up to get something good and Muzz was def good. Sure it would be nice to still have Durzi but I think both teams win that deal. He wouldn't have played if he didn't pass his physical.

He was good when healthy earlier on, but I just feel like we've really hitched our wagon on hoping guys that have an injury or inconsistency history don't have injuries or inconsistency in order to get a reasonable cap hit. I also think a number of people were worried about Muzzin's injury history when he signed the extension, and I've been in the trade Muzzin camp for a while - he hasn't been consistent even when healthy lately (except 7 games in the playoffs, but why are we basing our decision on 7 games?)

I feel for Muzzin as a player and as a person, but from a roster management perspective we let a young defenseman go when we need as many young, cheap players to fill out our rosters as possible, especially with less miles on the body. The Leafs are getting older and slower, and seeing assets disappear year after year either fixing mistakes or own rentaling or overspending on pending UFAs at the deadline... It's frustrating.

I think they hitched their wagon on already having had playoff success by 2022.

A Weekend at Bernier's

Quote from: Arn on November 14, 2022, 04:17:02 PMI did a quick google. Dr Google always throws up the worst case scenario, but I think it's worth having the context.

QuoteCervical spinal cord injuries often involve permanent complete or partial loss of sensory function , and many associated complications. As is the case with all injuries of the spinal cord, injuries located higher on the spine will be more severe, with high cervical spinal cord injury often being fatal.



Now, I always liked Muzzin. As a player and he seemed just a good all round dude.

I like that Dubas is talking about him as a person. I don't think we should be looking at him as an asset when it comes to an injury like that. It's about him and his family.

Well said, Arn.  I appreciate this sentiment.

OldTimeHockey

Quote from: Bender on November 14, 2022, 02:39:43 PMI feel for Muzzin as a player and as a person, but from a roster management perspective we let a young defenseman go when we need as many young, cheap players to fill out our rosters as possible, especially with less miles on the body. The Leafs are getting older and slower, and seeing assets disappear year after year either fixing mistakes or own rentaling or overspending on pending UFAs at the deadline... It's frustrating.

Durzi hadn't even played a game in the AHL yet when the trade was made. It occurred years ago and really, he's only playing like a number 4 or 5 defensemen now. Good for him. But we have several 4 through 6 defensemen. The team needed a tough, shut down D and Muzzin was that guy. Management can't predict career threatening spinal injuries. Apparently fans can though.