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Britt Griner Loses Appeal

Started by Rick Couchman, October 25, 2022, 01:03:54 PM

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Nik


It's kind of a tough situation because on the one hand absolutely you can see this a transparent miscarriage of justice by a crooked kleptocratatic country and want her to come home as soon as possible but the other hand is that Russia right now is sort of actively committing war crimes against their neighbour. So while I feel very bad for Griner and would, on balance, support the US government engaging in some sort of prisoner swap for her there's not much that can/should be done diplomatically because you'd like to think that if the US government had any sort of leverage over the Russians they'd be playing it to get them to stop launching missles into apartment buildings.

And I can't help but think of the story of the guy who was sentenced to 16 years in jail for tweets he made criticizing the Saudi government when he went there to see relatives. Again, bad regime, hope he gets out but, like, do these people see the news about these countries and their leadership and think "Ah, well, they won't do that to me, I'm a special case". As much as female basketball players like Griner say that "only" making high 5 figures or low 6 figures in the WNBA means they "have" to play in Russia for big paydays, let's not pretend that there's not a moral trade-off they're making that they're aware of going in.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Rick Couchman

Quote from: Nik on October 25, 2022, 01:59:49 PMAs much as female basketball players like Griner say that "only" making high 5 figures or low 6 figures in the WNBA means they "have" to play in Russia for big paydays, let's not pretend that there's not a moral trade-off they're making that they're aware of going in.

I'm not saying she's not guilty of anything and she certainly was in the wrong...  9 years though?  And there's nothing the US or any other advocacy organization can do?

Nik

Quote from: Rick Couchman on October 25, 2022, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: Nik on October 25, 2022, 01:59:49 PMAs much as female basketball players like Griner say that "only" making high 5 figures or low 6 figures in the WNBA means they "have" to play in Russia for big paydays, let's not pretend that there's not a moral trade-off they're making that they're aware of going in.

I'm not saying she's not guilty of anything and she certainly was in the wrong...  9 years though?  And there's nothing the US or any other advocacy organization can do?

I'm sure there are things the US government could do, it's just that because Griner was almost certainly imprisoned to extract significant considerations from the US government they have to weigh up the costs. Like, I'm sure if they agreed to drop any more military support to Ukraine they could get her home but that's clearly a non-starter. The long prison sentence isn't a real reflection the Russian justice system(other than the fact that it's subject to the whims and political goals of Putin) it's just intended to be harsh so as to increase the pressure on the US to cede to Russian demands. It sucks that she's a football caught up in this.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi


L K

I'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

herman

Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 10:18:14 AMI'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

Sort of sets a precedent or incentivizes something very not good.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Nik

Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 10:18:14 AMI'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

Admittedly I'm no expert in these matters but it seems to me that despite the scary nickname there's no real danger in trading a guy who'll have a hard time ever getting a visa to get into another country again.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bender

Quote from: herman on December 08, 2022, 10:37:14 AM
Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 10:18:14 AMI'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

Sort of sets a precedent or incentivizes something very not good.

We'll trade you your innocent civilian, just give us our international terrorist back.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

L K

Quote from: Nik on December 08, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 10:18:14 AMI'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

Admittedly I'm no expert in these matters but it seems to me that despite the scary nickname there's no real danger in trading a guy who'll have a hard time ever getting a visa to get into another country again.

It's certainly a fair point, although I would imagine that in 2022 an experienced arms dealer could probably operate from one country and have minions do the physical lifting work that would be prohibited by the lack of a visa...ignoring that people involved in illegal activity can probably find ways to get into other countries without a passport/visa if they really need to.

Nik

Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Nik on December 08, 2022, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: L K on December 08, 2022, 10:18:14 AMI'm happy she is getting released but freeing the Merchant of Death in this exchange is hardly a 1 for 1 trade here.

Admittedly I'm no expert in these matters but it seems to me that despite the scary nickname there's no real danger in trading a guy who'll have a hard time ever getting a visa to get into another country again.

It's certainly a fair point, although I would imagine that in 2022 an experienced arms dealer could probably operate from one country and have minions do the physical lifting work that would be prohibited by the lack of a visa...ignoring that people involved in illegal activity can probably find ways to get into other countries without a passport/visa if they really need to.

Again, I know very, very little about the world of international arms dealing but it does seem to me that the building of the sort of criminal enterprise you're talking about would be made significantly harder if the authorities know who you are and are looking in your direction. Not to mention that this assumes that the arrest of Bout in the first place led to a gap in the international weapons marketplace and not just some other individual or organization filling the void he left. It certainly doesn't seem like the last 12 years have seen militias and rebel forces unable to arm themselves so the idea that another arms dealer in the mix actually increases the number of weapons being sold as opposed to just having more criminals fighting over the same sized pie....again, couldn't possibly say with anything even hinting at authority.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi