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2018 World Junior Allegations

Started by Significantly Insignificant, June 23, 2022, 07:06:04 PM

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Nik

Quote from: cw on October 10, 2022, 01:15:18 PMHow many volunteers will they lose from this shame?
How many arenas or development projects are getting put on hold?
It won't be as fashionable for politicians to support it for some time to come.

How could any of these directors getting $3,000 championship rings look anyone in the eye?

They have hurt the sport. Period.

They need to clean house. If they can't do that, shut it down and start over.
It should be obvious to them by now.
Enough.

Well that's the thing that I think is so revealing about this scandal. What this has shown us, maybe more definitively than anything else, is who the people running Hockey Canada really are. Because, just for argument's sake, let's say that the people at Hockey Canada genuinely don't think they did anything wrong. That means that they're either such raging egotists that they think the massive damage being done to the organization reputationally and financially by them not resigning is somehow less impactful than what would happen if they did resign or they simply don't care enough about the sport and the organization vs. whatever benefits they receive(financial or otherwise) from their current positions.

As serious as the allegations are regarding the slush funds and general attitude towards the misconduct of players is the fact that these are the sorts of people high up in the organization shows that cleaning this house was long overdue regardless. These guys getting 3,000 dollar championship rings is the sort of detail that would embarrass any decent person.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

L K

The ring thing especially made me roll my eyes because it really highlights how self important the board thinks they are.  You did absolutely nothing to impact the medals.

Also why has there not been more criticism of the Oilers and Bob Nicholson.

cw

Quote from: Nik on October 10, 2022, 08:01:08 PM
Quote from: cw on October 10, 2022, 01:15:18 PMHow many volunteers will they lose from this shame?
How many arenas or development projects are getting put on hold?
It won't be as fashionable for politicians to support it for some time to come.

How could any of these directors getting $3,000 championship rings look anyone in the eye?

They have hurt the sport. Period.

They need to clean house. If they can't do that, shut it down and start over.
It should be obvious to them by now.
Enough.

Well that's the thing that I think is so revealing about this scandal. What this has shown us, maybe more definitively than anything else, is who the people running Hockey Canada really are. Because, just for argument's sake, let's say that the people at Hockey Canada genuinely don't think they did anything wrong. That means that they're either such raging egotists that they think the massive damage being done to the organization reputationally and financially by them not resigning is somehow less impactful than what would happen if they did resign or they simply don't care enough about the sport and the organization vs. whatever benefits they receive(financial or otherwise) from their current positions.

As serious as the allegations are regarding the slush funds and general attitude towards the misconduct of players is the fact that these are the sorts of people high up in the organization shows that cleaning this house was long overdue regardless. These guys getting 3,000 dollar championship rings is the sort of detail that would embarrass any decent person.

Sadly, I've seen this kind of thing more than once before.

Part of the root of it, in my opinion, is the concern of appearances. "What would people think if they knew some of our hockey players sexually assaulted a girl?" They fear the answer. So they take these steps to sweep it under the rug - in this case "to protect our organization" "to keep it out of the media and the courts".
Happens in companies.
Happens in churches.
Happens in schools.

These directors will argue with you that they were doing the right thing. And they will feel that by quitting, they would be admitting to doing something wrong and damaging their reputation (again, concerned about what people think of them). Of course, they're wrong but most of them can't and won't see it that way.

What they often miss is how their behavior affects the victim like "Here's some dough for the gang bang but Hockey Canada's reputation is more important ..." And the perpetrators get a slap on the wrist maybe while often, the ones getting away with it, reoffend. It happened in my own school and that Principal defended his actions to the day he died while the teacher he let off went on to reoffend at two other schools.

They've lost their way. Someone needs to show them the door.
That is the best thing for Hockey Canada.

cw

Quote from: L K on October 10, 2022, 08:46:35 PMThe ring thing especially made me roll my eyes because it really highlights how self important the board thinks they are.  You did absolutely nothing to impact the medals.

Also why has there not been more criticism of the Oilers and Bob Nicholson.

That to me is like stealing money from little kids.

I haven't been following it closely but I think Bob Nicholson has been asked to appear at a future hearing. Some of the roots to this allegedly started on his watch. He may lose his job with the Oilers (... resign to keep up appearances ..)

Nik

Quote from: cw on October 10, 2022, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: L K on October 10, 2022, 08:46:35 PMThe ring thing especially made me roll my eyes because it really highlights how self important the board thinks they are.  You did absolutely nothing to impact the medals.

Also why has there not been more criticism of the Oilers and Bob Nicholson.

That to me is like stealing money from little kids

And what makes it particularly egregious is that this is a sport where a lot of kids have either restricted their involvement or never started playing at all because of the high costs.

Obviously the cost of these rings wouldn't materially change that but it definitely again speaks to the idea that these guys just have no idea about the optics of their behaviour.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

cw

Quote from: Nik on October 10, 2022, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: cw on October 10, 2022, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: L K on October 10, 2022, 08:46:35 PMThe ring thing especially made me roll my eyes because it really highlights how self important the board thinks they are.  You did absolutely nothing to impact the medals.

Also why has there not been more criticism of the Oilers and Bob Nicholson.

That to me is like stealing money from little kids

And what makes it particularly egregious is that this is a sport where a lot of kids have either restricted their involvement or never started playing at all because of the high costs.

Obviously the cost of these rings wouldn't materially change that but it definitely again speaks to the idea that these guys just have no idea about the optics of their behaviour.

Like many in Canada, I grew up with a little rink my Dad made in our backyard.
There were natural rinks in all the parks and schools around us.
Skates, gloves, stick, maybe shin pads and away we'd go.
I was addicted and usually played from about 3pm when school got out until they turned off the lights at 10pm.
It cost me 10 cents per day. My mother insisted I had to call home via pay phone every day to say I wouldn't be home for dinner. That was 10 cents more than most guys had to pay.
I played organized hockey with full equipment but most of the time, I played shinny without full equipment and was happier doing that.
Climate change pretty much ended natural rinks.
I was able to make one for my kids when they were very young. Got too warm.
Along with equipment for safety, the costs skyrocketed.

Hockey Canada needs to spend their time addressing that. It is a formidable challenge they probably won't be able to overcome. If they don't, hockey in Canada will be more rare due to its expense - like polo. Climate and sport economics will continue to push more Canadians towards more affordable and safer activities like soccer, baseball, basketball, etc

In the interim, at least the sexual assault victims will be muzzled & paid off, the perpetrators free and maybe the lawyers can design the board of directors some $3,000 rings for that!

Nik

https://twitter.com/nicolemartintv/status/1579817872867885056

Forget morality for a second, just as a practical matter what could the board members hanging on by their fingertips think is the endgame at this point? That people just forget and sponsors go right back to giving money? That new sponsors take their place?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

herman

#27 #TeamFasstholes

cw

Quote from: herman on October 11, 2022, 10:11:54 AMhttps://twitter.com/hockeycanada/status/1579851522107936769
Aaand flush goes the toilet

https://hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/hockey-canada-makes-leadership-changes-2022-news

Good.

That's a step in the right direction.

I went to look at their "Mandate & Mission" page
https://hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/corporate/about/mandate-mission
It crashed. Wouldn't load. "hockeycanada.ca Host Error"
Maybe they got some AI built into their site ...

Thoughts of "how do we get them to melt down those rings? ..."

herman

They haven't outlined how they will change anything yet, but it's finally a decision that slightly reverses the momentum of continually sewering the whole organization with tone-deaf self-righteousness in the face of overwhelming evidence.
#27 #TeamFasstholes

Nik

Obviously a step in the right direction but really just one step among many that needs to be taken for this organization to ever regain public trust. Simply turning to a new bunch of people who won't make significant internal changes isn't going to be enough.

Like, for instance, I've seen some people speculate as to what Smith was earning as CEO and what he'll be leaving with in terms of compensation and I think that right away, the idea that Hockey Canada should have someone in charge making a literal fortune is insane to begin with.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

cw

They have a lot of work to do. They will not turn this around quickly. They violated peoples trust.

Immediately, they have a real budget problem. They have to cut a lot of expenses quickly. They have to repair what bridges they can for revenue. Many will probably not be repairable in the short term or not as lucrative. Some of that dough will have to be set aside for unplanned restructuring costs.

They have to find good people and reinvent themselves. That is going to take time and good people may be hard to attract right out of the gate. Hopefully, they can find a good, credible leader or group.
On the bright side, they should come out of it as a better organization than they were.

It is going to be tough for a while. At least they are finally underway.


Frank E

Quote from: cw on October 11, 2022, 12:14:50 PMThey have a lot of work to do. They will not turn this around quickly. They violated peoples trust.

Immediately, they have a real budget problem. They have to cut a lot of expenses quickly. They have to repair what bridges they can for revenue. Many will probably not be repairable in the short term or not as lucrative. Some of that dough will have to be set aside for unplanned restructuring costs.

They have to find good people and reinvent themselves. That is going to take time and good people may be hard to attract right out of the gate. Hopefully, they can find a good, credible leader or group.
On the bright side, they should come out of it as a better organization than they were.

It is going to be tough for a while. At least they are finally underway.



Their name itself might be permanently tainted...rename/rebrand is probably going to be necessary.

L K

The bird resigning en masses is good.  As mentioned above, they are resigning with disgrace so I'd be very keen to know what kind of social parachute they gave themselves for being incompetent.

It's a step in the right direction but until we see meaningful change in terms of the culture at hockey Canada we might just get a new board doing the same shenanigans.   We still don't know how many skeletons are in the closet with this organization

OldTimeHockey

#89
Now that the board has resigned, it should be time to move onto the next steps. They need to rebuild their trust with society. They can write all they want down on a "mission" page...But they need top to bottom buy in.

The biggest issue they are facing is the system that is created around the "high talent" players. They are propped on pedestals at a very young age and their ego is massaged constantly. They can do no wrong in the hockey association's, and for that matter, the town's eyes. This creates a feeling of being untouchable. This is a big part of what we've seen occur. Spoiled teenagers, doing unthinkable acts because they think they're beyond punishment(as they have been their whole lives). It's then followed by grown adults, once again, covering up for these disgusting acts.

I remember 15 years ago or so, Akim Aliu complained about the hazing that occured on his junior team which involved 15/16 year old boys being stripped naked and locked in the team bus bathroom. At the time, it pissed off some people, but for the most part Aliu was dismissed as a whiner. One NHL Scout actually said this about Aliu:

QuoteOne long-time NHL scout, who had followed Aliu for a couple years and seen him play a dozen or so times, vouched for the Very Goods and Excellents on Aliu's NHL CSS report but wasn't completely sold on him. "He's an athlete but the question is whether he's a player," the scout said then. In the end, Aliu was seen by some in the industry as a malcontent instead of what he clearly was: Someone who would not go along to get along when things were so clearly wrong.
Full article here: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/akim-aliu-hockey-hazing-big-read/

Coaches, parents, teammates, Associations, all overlooked Aliu's treatment and continue to overlook this behaviour.

The board flipping is a step. A small one. But, society as a whole has failed these hockey players and in turn, has failed the victims. I'm not saying that the players do not have to carry a heavy share of the blame. I am saying that every association that these kids played in carries blame. The high school teacher that propped these players up as heroes carries blame. Their parents carry blame.

I guess my longwinded, all over the place point is, the covering up and misuse of funds is only a small part of the problem that needs to be fixed. There is a repair needed in how we treat the "elite athlete". Call them on their BS. Punish them early when they are out of line...and at the end of it all, if they're still a POS, banish them from the sport.