2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd actually be interested in Cogliano on a cheap/hometown deal. Always liked him. Him and Kampf would be a solid duo on the 4th line.

[hobarth]

Nic thinks if your team isn't as good as the other team because of depth then losing is inevitable, I assume he's also saying that Columbus and Montreal were better teams, not necessarily in the regular season but definitely in the playoffs because of their depth. I think TO has had decent depth over the years except in superior player effort/results.

I think TO has been the better team both in regular seasons and in the playoffs but due to the quality of TO's superior players TO has consistently lost in the 1st round. They are paid like they can move mountains but when the crunch comes they wilt, they need to be motivated to give their all like Drisaitl did for Edmonton during these playoffs, TO's stars remind me of Kessel, they shot from the perimeter and don't hang onto the puck when physically challenged, when was the last time you saw Matthews carry the puck to the opposition's net, shot yes carry no, same for Mitch. I don't expect players like Kerfoot or Mikhey to win anything for TO, I simply hope they can hold their own against players of similar ability. JT at least makes himself available to contribute but MM, AM and Willie are generally difficult to see during the crunch, they need to be reminded that they are paid to make TO better than the opposition and play that way in the playoffs or at any time all year long. When I watch Crosby I see a player that seems to take losing personally, that's what we need from AM and MM and from Willie if he seriously wants to be paid like AM and MM.   

Keefe has had 2 years of playoffs to motivate TO to win, he hasn't and I don't think he has the ability to do so, it's time to move on to someone that might be able to coax that extra effort, that desire to win at all costs out of JT, WN, AM and MM. If the desire to win continues to wane from those players then the sooner TO moves on from them the better.
 
 

[Nik]

Nic thinks if your team isn't as good as the other team because of depth then losing is inevitable

You might notice I also said they had better goaltending and defense. Combined with better depth and that doesn't make getting beat inevitable but it does make it the most likely outcome if both teams play well.

Also, I mean, my name has three letters.

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm kinda done with the Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford type 4th liners.

Sure they can come in and give you 8 minutes a night of filler, but I think they need to use that space to bleed young guys that are doing well in the AHL.

The more swings you take the more chances you have at finding a guy who is too good to be kept on the 4th line and your depth improves.

They need to find players that can play meaningful roles on ELC's.

[Arn]

I'm kinda done with the Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford type 4th liners.

Sure they can come in and give you 8 minutes a night of filler, but I think they need to use that space to bleed young guys that are doing well in the AHL.

The more swings you take the more chances you have at finding a guy who is too good to be kept on the 4th line and your depth improves.

They need to find players that can play meaningful roles on ELC's.

I think you can have one, and I think there's value in having one, all be it probably more in the mould of Spezza.

If a Spezza can only offer 10 minutes a night, I don't mind cycling in someone like Nylander for extra shifts, especially if he's playing more of a 3rd line role.

But the other 2 fourth line spots should definitely be used more productively.

[Arn]

I'm all in on Fleury in on a 2 year deal to be our goalie. Modern version of Belfour.

[Hobbes]

I'm kinda done with the Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford type 4th liners.

Sure they can come in and give you 8 minutes a night of filler, but I think they need to use that space to bleed young guys that are doing well in the AHL.

The more swings you take the more chances you have at finding a guy who is too good to be kept on the 4th line and your depth improves.

They need to find players that can play meaningful roles on ELC's.

I think you can have one, and I think there's value in having one, all be it probably more in the mould of Spezza.

If a Spezza can only offer 10 minutes a night, I don't mind cycling in someone like Nylander for extra shifts, especially if he's playing more of a 3rd line role.

But the other 2 fourth line spots should definitely be used more productively.

Love him or hate him, Corey Perry was a beast for Tampa during their playoff run this year and would be the ideal sort of guy to pick up for the 4th line. I guess Simmons was hoped to be in that vein but just doesn't quite have enough left in the tank to play at the level Perry still can -- a danger to score; a capable penalty killer; and big, heavy, tough as nails play shift in and shift out.

I guess in the end it depends on what you're looking for from your 4th line. IMO having them score isn't nearly as useful as having them be able to eat up around 10 minutes of safe and reliable ice time a night and do some crashing and banging along the way. They shouldn't require babysitting from our best defensive pair, and shouldn't spend their shifts buried in our own end. Having one or two of our key penalty killers on that line would be good, too, since it would help keep them fresh for when they're needed. Those sorts of requirements are easier to satisfy from the "old but not quite yet dead" category of player rather than the up-and-coming ELC type.

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm kinda done with the Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford type 4th liners.

Sure they can come in and give you 8 minutes a night of filler, but I think they need to use that space to bleed young guys that are doing well in the AHL.

The more swings you take the more chances you have at finding a guy who is too good to be kept on the 4th line and your depth improves.

They need to find players that can play meaningful roles on ELC's.

It really depends on what they do with Kampf and where he plays. If they try to keep him in the 3C spot and have that as a checking line then I agree, the 4th line needs to be one that can play at a faster pace and can pot in a few more goals than what we've been used to for the past few years and getting younger guys to play in those roles would help with that.

But if they drop him to the 4C spot (I would argue that every team in the final 4 this year had their version of Kampf on their 4th line) then I think there's still probably room for one more addition of a grindy/defensive/veteran/shutdown 4th liner to maybe go alongside Kampf and say Engvall. This 4th line would also have a much more defined defensive role than the 4th lines we've had in past years which were basically just used as filler like you said.

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm all in on Fleury in on a 2 year deal to be our goalie. Modern version of Belfour.

Would depend on his contract demands but I think he's a legitimate option. I'd be very hesitant to go 2-years though unless it really brings the AAV down a lot.

[Arn]

I'm all in on Fleury in on a 2 year deal to be our goalie. Modern version of Belfour.

Would depend on his contract demands but I think he's a legitimate option. I'd be very hesitant to go 2-years though unless it really brings the AAV down a lot.

Yeah that was my thinking on the 2 years really. Pay him £2m a year for 2 years rather than £3m for one or whatever and if he goes well this year he remains an option for next and if not then there's less cap to bury or he can slide in as a backup or more easily traded.

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2022/06/20/maple-leafs-offseason-game-plan-part-1-the-secondary-core-and-team-depth/

MLHS Notebooks are always a good longform read

Part 2
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2022/06/27/maple-leafs-offseason-game-plan-part-2-the-core/

[herman]

https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1542539734093893634

[CarltonTheBear]

Well he won't need that soup endorsement money after the contract he's about to get.

[Joe]

Who is going to replace Mikheyev's 0 playoff goals?

[Guilt Trip]

Who is going to replace Mikheyev's 0 playoff goals?

I'd rather Mikheyev at 3.5 the Kerfoot.