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2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

Started by herman, May 22, 2022, 03:17:14 PM

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Bender

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 16, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 16, 2023, 09:52:37 AMI was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

That really isn't that bad at all. I mean, you definitely have options. Ideally you get a higher end 3C but I'd also like to get an upgrade on D prior to the deadline. I think all those deadline deals were in retrospect too many. The team I thought looked pretty disjointed from the deadline on and never really got into that groove of steamrolling opponents. I'm also not opposed at trading Nylander or Marner and redistributing that extra cash for depth pieces we've been looking for.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Rob on May 16, 2023, 02:34:21 PMWhat about the annual Denis Malgin ExperimentTM .

Oh that is an awesome band name.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Bender on May 16, 2023, 02:44:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 16, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 16, 2023, 09:52:37 AMI was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

That really isn't that bad at all. I mean, you definitely have options. Ideally you get a higher end 3C but I'd also like to get an upgrade on D prior to the deadline. I think all those deadline deals were in retrospect too many. The team I thought looked pretty disjointed from the deadline on and never really got into that groove of steamrolling opponents. I'm also not opposed at trading Nylander or Marner and redistributing that extra cash for depth pieces we've been looking for.

I would like Kampf to come back as the 4c
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bill33

And hey, there's NRob for the 17 minutes of ice before he's injured for the next season.

OldTimeHockey

Do any of the other Marlies have an opportunity to make the jump?

Holmberg?
Steeves?
Abruzzese?

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bill33 on May 16, 2023, 02:40:08 PMI still look enviously at the Chykrun deal the sens made.
But he can't stay healthy. He played 12 games for the Sens, got hurt again and was done for the year. He played 48 games last year. 47 the year before.

Bill_Berg

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 16, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 16, 2023, 09:52:37 AMI was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

Yep, or a legit 2nd line centre and move ROR to the third line, or a bump to the defense. They have options next year.


Bender

I'm just so baffled why Kyle randomly brought his family into the conversation at the end of season  presser. Presumably mlse would know about it but supposedly there was a deal on the table on the weekend. If his hearts not in it they need to get Eric Tulsky now before he's scooped up.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

cw

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 16, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 16, 2023, 09:52:37 AMI was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

They have to move Murray or buy him out.

Not sure about Schenn with Rielly all season in the top pairing or top 4.

I think they have to find a physical dman for the PK - which is something many felt Holl did well or was ok at.

I'd like to better understand why McCabe-Brodie pairing that looked so good in the regular season had trouble. Was there an aspect of playoff hockey that gave them trouble or was it more the forwards in front of them or both or something else ? I'd factor that into my plans for acquiring personnel.

They have good peripheral talent for scoring. That has been proven again and again to not translate as well during the tighter checking playoffs. Esposito had Hodge (& Cashman) - physical guys to get him the puck or to help finish. Gilmour had Andrechuk. Sundin had Roberts. etc, etc. You can name countless pairings - or teams that had size/muscle/grit with some scoring skill to score in the tighter playoffs. Physical guys who can muck it in or tip it in the blue paint area - going to the net. Very roughly that sort of thing gets you the "dirty" goals in the playoffs. Tavares is someone who can do that and might be more free to do so on a wing though his ability at faceoffs shouldn't be ignored. Knies seems to have the tools - he can pass the puck too. My top priority among the forwards would be to try to find a another guy who can do that beyond O'Reilly (if he re-signs).

I would be encouraging Matthews to be less peripheral - drive the net more. Nylander maybe looking to distribute the puck more when he goes for his skates to players that converge on the net to help increase the dirty goals.

I'm not that bothered by the core 4. They all have enough talent to contribute to a Cup winner. Part of their appeal is they will help defensively. They had trouble scoring more than 2 goals the last 7 games but they were competitive because they played defense. That can be difficult to get stars to do. I have a little more time for players like that.

Bill33

Quote from: cw on May 17, 2023, 07:36:01 PMThey have to move Murray or buy him out.

Not sure about Schenn with Rielly all season in the top pairing or top 4.

I think they have to find a physical dman for the PK - which is something many felt Holl did well or was ok at.

I'd like to better understand why McCabe-Brodie pairing that looked so good in the regular season had trouble. Was there an aspect of playoff hockey that gave them trouble or was it more the forwards in front of them or both or something else ? I'd factor that into my plans for acquiring personnel.

They have good peripheral talent for scoring. That has been proven again and again to not translate as well during the tighter checking playoffs. Esposito had Hodge (& Cashman) - physical guys to get him the puck or to help finish. Gilmour had Andrechuk. Sundin had Roberts. etc, etc. You can name countless pairings - or teams that had size/muscle/grit with some scoring skill to score in the tighter playoffs. Physical guys who can muck it in or tip it in the blue paint area - going to the net. Very roughly that sort of thing gets you the "dirty" goals in the playoffs. Tavares is someone who can do that and might be more free to do so on a wing though his ability at faceoffs shouldn't be ignored. Knies seems to have the tools - he can pass the puck too. My top priority among the forwards would be to try to find a another guy who can do that beyond O'Reilly (if he re-signs).

I would be encouraging Matthews to be less peripheral - drive the net more. Nylander maybe looking to distribute the puck more when he goes for his skates to players that converge on the net to help increase the dirty goals.

I'm not that bothered by the core 4. They all have enough talent to contribute to a Cup winner. Part of their appeal is they will help defensively. They had trouble scoring more than 2 goals the last 7 games but they were competitive because they played defense. That can be difficult to get stars to do. I have a little more time for players like that.

100% agree with all of this. Good post. If dubas doesn't take the job, I'll designate you 2nd in line.

L K

Whatever is going on with Dubas I do hope the organization makes a move sooner than later.   This off-season is too important to have the GM position in flux like this

CarltonTheBear

Quote from: L K on May 18, 2023, 08:00:16 AMWhatever is going on with Dubas I do hope the organization makes a move sooner than later.   This off-season is too important to have the GM position in flux like this

Leafs are going to be getting into the coaching hire discussion pretty late compared to other teams too, assuming they go in that direction.

cw

Quote from: L K on May 18, 2023, 08:00:16 AMWhatever is going on with Dubas I do hope the organization makes a move sooner than later.  This off-season is too important to have the GM position in flux like this

What if they had made it to the conference finals? Then what?

That was a key part of the reason for me to extend him. Not so much because of a few weeks. But because a new guy coming in has a lot to get his head around. Dubas is intimately knowledgeable of the talent on the team, the staff, where they fell short, etc. That is not possible to absorb very well between now and July 1. Draft is coming up and the new GM won't know the scouts, etc. New GM won't know the organizational talent as well, their health, their development progress, etc. Trade talks are back to square one. etc.

It is a different situation than when a team has fallen short and it is time for a rebuild or significant retooling. That GM has plenty of time to get oriented. The Leafs are a 4th place team that still has a window and needs some adjustments. A Sam Pollack clone would have trouble taking over in the first year. The haste to get up to speed makes it more likely to make some mistakes.

Dubas can carry on discussions with the UFA's or RFA's agents. New GM has to start up without the intimate knowledge of what has gone on with the player. Ditto for trade discussions with GMs. Or with his scouts and staff.

They would have to find a GM. I guess Shanahan or Pridham would be interim if he isn't leaving for Calgary. Then they probably have to find a coach.

I doubt this problem with Dubas will be left unresolved very long.

40 days to NHL draft
43 days to July 1.

Bill33

I'd guess they'll announce something tomorrow on the GM situation to give the org the weekend before the demands of the news cycle.

hobarth

Quote from: cw on May 17, 2023, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 16, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_less_sad on May 16, 2023, 09:52:37 AMI was poking around in cap friendly, and if they can dump Murray, the Leafs will actually have a good amount of cap space next year.

It's actually a fair bit more than I even thought. Let's just do a basic/boring breakdown of what next seasons roster could look like.

Say Murray gets dumped fully (seems likely in a Mrazek-lite trade at the draft), Samsonov is re-signed ($3.5mil) and then the trio of UFAs I think most people want back are re-signed (ROR $5mil, Acciari $1.5mil, Schenn $1mil):

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
______-ROR-Marner
Knies-______-Jarnkrok
McMann-Acciari-Lafferty

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Assuming a $83.5mil cap ceiling that roster leaves you with $8.5mil in cap space to get a couple of middle-6 forwards. Probably more than a lot of contending teams. 

They have to move Murray or buy him out.

Not sure about Schenn with Rielly all season in the top pairing or top 4.

I think they have to find a physical dman for the PK - which is something many felt Holl did well or was ok at.

I'd like to better understand why McCabe-Brodie pairing that looked so good in the regular season had trouble. Was there an aspect of playoff hockey that gave them trouble or was it more the forwards in front of them or both or something else ? I'd factor that into my plans for acquiring personnel.

They have good peripheral talent for scoring. That has been proven again and again to not translate as well during the tighter checking playoffs. Esposito had Hodge (& Cashman) - physical guys to get him the puck or to help finish. Gilmour had Andrechuk. Sundin had Roberts. etc, etc. You can name countless pairings - or teams that had size/muscle/grit with some scoring skill to score in the tighter playoffs. Physical guys who can muck it in or tip it in the blue paint area - going to the net. Very roughly that sort of thing gets you the "dirty" goals in the playoffs. Tavares is someone who can do that and might be more free to do so on a wing though his ability at faceoffs shouldn't be ignored. Knies seems to have the tools - he can pass the puck too. My top priority among the forwards would be to try to find a another guy who can do that beyond O'Reilly (if he re-signs).

I would be encouraging Matthews to be less peripheral - drive the net more. Nylander maybe looking to distribute the puck more when he goes for his skates to players that converge on the net to help increase the dirty goals.

I'm not that bothered by the core 4. They all have enough talent to contribute to a Cup winner. Part of their appeal is they will help defensively. They had trouble scoring more than 2 goals the last 7 games but they were competitive because they played defense. That can be difficult to get stars to do. I have a little more time for players like that.

They don't get paid $11 mil. to defend, defending is tedious but far less dangerous, Marner took his shots from 40' away from the crease but during the regular season his shots on average were from 30', read that somewhere, in the playoffs it would be refreshing to see all the core actually shot from even closer to the net than they did during the regular season.

They weren't competitive and outside of ROR none of them felt that they didn't give their all to win, Austin of course was injured again so I guess he didn't fell he had to, all of the core 4 couldn't overcome the Florida d, all shot from outside of their usual regular season distance, that's how TO got outgoalied, I would call that outdefended/outcoached.