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2022 Blue Jays

Started by Deebo, November 16, 2021, 10:24:51 AM

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Bender

"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Bender

Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?
Both are similar but I think the Jays did great signing Gausman and he wanted to come here....doesn't sound like ray did ad that's why the Jays moved on.

https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-free-agency-ace-gausman-ray

Bender

Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 29, 2021, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?
Both are similar but I think the Jays did great signing Gausman and he wanted to come here....doesn't sound like ray did ad that's why the Jays moved on.

https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-free-agency-ace-gausman-ray

Yeah, I mean if they went for similar $ I don't see why we wouldn't sign Ray unless he specifically didn't want to resign.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 29, 2021, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?
Both are similar but I think the Jays did great signing Gausman and he wanted to come here....doesn't sound like ray did ad that's why the Jays moved on.

https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-free-agency-ace-gausman-ray

Yeah, I mean if they went for similar $ I don't see why we wouldn't sign Ray unless he specifically didn't want to resign.
Just reading that article/opinion, I would say the Jays got the better pitcher.

Joe

Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?

Very - right down to last season being potentially fluke seasons. But at least Gausman spent years in the AL east. Knows what he's getting into. And apparently the Jays went hard after him last years but he had reservations with the Jays having no home field.

Joe

Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on November 29, 2021, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?
Both are similar but I think the Jays did great signing Gausman and he wanted to come here....doesn't sound like ray did ad that's why the Jays moved on.

https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-free-agency-ace-gausman-ray

Yeah, I mean if they went for similar $ I don't see why we wouldn't sign Ray unless he specifically didn't want to resign.

You can also look at it as the Jays got a very similar player and a draft pick. So in a way they're kind of ahead? Either way I see Ray and Gausman as a wash. Neither are the ace of this staff. That's Berrios.

bustaheims

Even without Ray, the Jays have the makings of a pretty solid rotation. Ryu, Berrios, Gausman, Manoah, and Stripling/Pearson/another addition is a pretty good group. Being able to retain Ray would have been great, but replacing him with Gausman isn't much of a downgrade in terms of reasonable expected performance.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Guilt Trip

According to Steve Phillips, the Jays offered 5 x 110mill. Ray's camp was playing it that they were getting more from someone else, so they were bluffing. They were also going to wait until Dec 1 to sign and were slow playing it. Jays didn't want to wait and moved on to plan B before Gausman signed somewhere else.
Smart move to get 1 of them. Gasman isn't much of a drop, if at all.

Nik

Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?

I think so. Especially when you factor in the draft pick. In a perfect world would I have taken Ray over Gausman at these respective deals? Maybe. But there certainly isn't a huge difference and I understand why someone might lean the other way in thinking Gausman has a lot of room for improvement under Pete Walker whereas we already saw what Walker could do for Ray.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Nik


Rangers going wild. Have signed Corey Seager for 10 years, 325 million. I guess that means they keep Semien at 2B?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

L K

Quote from: Nik on November 29, 2021, 05:52:40 PM

Rangers going wild. Have signed Corey Seager for 10 years, 325 million. I guess that means they keep Semien at 2B?

I don't like the length of the Semien contract but this Seager contract is pure batshit insane

Andy

Quote from: Nik on November 29, 2021, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: Bender on November 29, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 28, 2021, 10:05:51 PM

Wow. Not sure if this closes the door on Ray but that's a solid addition to the rotation at a pretty reasonable price.

Ray just went for $115M/5yrs. Is Gausman comparable?

I think so. Especially when you factor in the draft pick. In a perfect world would I have taken Ray over Gausman at these respective deals? Maybe. But there certainly isn't a huge difference and I understand why someone might lean the other way in thinking Gausman has a lot of room for improvement under Pete Walker whereas we already saw what Walker could do for Ray.

I think, though, that the opt-out after the 3rd year on Ray's deal makes Gausman's more desirable. If Ray proves he's an ace, he's 100% gone in 3 years; if Gausman pans out, we still get him for all 5. The only way Seattle gets Ray for all 5 is if he pitches poorly and/or gets injured.

Nik

#43
Quote from: Andy on November 29, 2021, 06:51:48 PM
I think, though, that the opt-out after the 3rd year on Ray's deal makes Gausman's more desirable. If Ray proves he's an ace, he's 100% gone in 3 years; if Gausman pans out, we still get him for all 5. The only way Seattle gets Ray for all 5 is if he pitches poorly and/or gets injured.

Sure but that's mitigated a bit, I think, by the idea that these guys both might be good for the first few years of their deal and then less effective in the later years in which case the Ray scenario isn't so bad. Add in the devil you know factor and I can make an argument either way. Regardless, I'm not complaining. I think Gausman could be really good.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Nik

Quote from: L K on November 29, 2021, 06:47:33 PM
Quote from: Nik on November 29, 2021, 05:52:40 PM

Rangers going wild. Have signed Corey Seager for 10 years, 325 million. I guess that means they keep Semien at 2B?

I don't like the length of the Semien contract but this Seager contract is pure batshit insane

The thing about these huge 10 year, 250+ million dollar deals is just that, like, none of them seem smart or like they work out. Even the Mike Trout deal you have to wonder about now that he's getting hurt a bit. Guys like Betts or Lindor or Machado are all great players but do you really want those deals now? Even Harper after winning the MVP, it still seems like a crazy risk.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi