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Pietrangelo Watch

Started by herman, September 18, 2020, 07:36:36 PM

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Guilt Trip

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 19, 2020, 09:56:15 AM
Quote from: princedpw on September 18, 2020, 11:34:03 PM
This seems impossible. They can?t ask someone to sign a contract without showing them the contract.  And anyway, the player would just assume it is the worst possible contract for them at that AAV. It can?t possibly be true.

They couldn't have asked him to sign, but maybe they wanted him to agree to a deal in principle so that way they'd know exactly how much cap space they'd need to start clearing.
That def sounds like like a possibilty. So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

.

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 19, 2020, 09:56:15 AM

They couldn't have asked him to sign, but maybe they wanted him to agree to a deal in principle so that way they'd know exactly how much cap space they'd need to start clearing.

That sounds like a much more likely scenario than any other I've read. It just doesn't make sense for St Louis to go full monty burns in this; it reflects upon the franchise and attracting other free agents in the future -it's just bad business. It's clearly just player agents trying to put pressure on through the media like another local situation we had last summer. 

.

Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.
It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

.

#19
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.
It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

Yeah, but you're getting a #1D who will likely begin a decline, while giving up a very young forward who will likely maintain or improve. I know they're in win-now mode, but they're painting themselves into massive corner. Any injuries to key players, and they're sunk with no depth to backfill.

If they could move Nylander for a young defenceman for which they could get more or less equivalent value, that would be something I'd investigate, but I doubt they'd end up with significant cap savings to fit pieterangelo on top of that. I dunno. I can see the appeal, don't get me wrong, but you'll have 20M in Tavares and Pieteranglo in a few years that can't be moved (assuming an NTC) of which you'll likely lament the situation.

Guilt Trip

#20
Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.
It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

Yeah, but you're getting a #1D who will likely begin a decline, while giving up a very young forward who will likely maintain or improve. I know they're in win-now mode, but they're painting themselves into massive corner. Any injuries to key players, and they're sunk with no depth to backfill.

If they could move Nylander for a young defenceman for which they could get more or less equivalent value, that would be something I'd investigate, but I doubt they'd end up with significant cap savings to fit pieterangelo on top of that. I dunno. I can see the appeal, don't get me wrong, but you'll have 20M in Tavares and Pieteranglo in a few years that can't be moved (assuming an NTC) of which you'll likely lament the situation.
No disagreeing with you at all. This is what makes it so intriguing. And yes AP will be 31 in Jan but will his game fall off the cliff? Duncan Keith is 37 and can still play. Giordano is up there. I mean can we get 5 good years out of him on a front loaded, cough cough, signing bonuses, and then potentially trade him down the road for a to team that wants cap hit, not actual salary? Get the popcorn out.

Guilt Trip

Just to add. If this was Hedman we were talking about, would anyone hesitate? Asking because he's 11 months younger. I know I wouldn't so is Hedman that much better the AP?

.

Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:44:26 AM
Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: Frycer14 on September 19, 2020, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 19, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
So if the ask is 9 mill, can the Leafs do it? Should they?

Personally, I think it's an incredibly risky move the way the team is constructed. I'd reluctantly pass.
It's a tough call because you're going to have to get rid of in or around Nylander's money to make it work, but you're getting a bonafide #1 D man.

Yeah, but you're getting a #1D who will likely begin a decline, while giving up a very young forward who will likely maintain or improve. I know they're in win-now mode, but they're painting themselves into massive corner. Any injuries to key players, and they're sunk with no depth to backfill.

If they could move Nylander for a young defenceman for which they could get more or less equivalent value, that would be something I'd investigate, but I doubt they'd end up with significant cap savings to fit pieterangelo on top of that. I dunno. I can see the appeal, don't get me wrong, but you'll have 20M in Tavares and Pieteranglo in a few years that can't be moved (assuming an NTC) of which you'll likely lament the situation.
No disagreeing with you at all. This is what makes it so intriguing. And yes AP will be 31 in Jan but will his game fall off the cliff? Duncan Keith is 37 and can still play. Giordano is up there. I mean can we get 5 good years out of him on a front loaded, cough cough, signing bonuses, and then potentially trade him down the road for a to team that wants cap hit, not actual salary? Get the popcorn out.

Definitely agree. It's a weird scenario when someone as good as the guy can actually get to market and you have to consider whether or not its a good move. I guess it's the flat cap and the economy that really takes the wind out of comparing to Keith, etc. Those guys' contracts don't look quite so bad as they age as the cap has increased and the % goes down, but that very likely might not be the case here.

Anyway, it could be moot if it ends up in a stamkos. I don't think things has "broken down" quite as much as advertised.

Frank E

I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

L K

I think the big determine factor for me would be what return you get for the guy we send out.  If we are getting pennies on the dollar on the trade I don?t think it is worth it.   If we get fair value for say Nylander then that could be a good piece coming back plus some prospect depth.   I mean if we get a second good defenseman to add to Pietrangelo that does become very enticing

Bullfrog

Quote from: Frank E on September 19, 2020, 11:24:19 AM
I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

Joe

Quote from: L K on September 19, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
I think the big determine factor for me would be what return you get for the guy we send out.  If we are getting pennies on the dollar on the trade I don?t think it is worth it.   If we get fair value for say Nylander then that could be a good piece coming back plus some prospect depth.   I mean if we get a second good defenseman to add to Pietrangelo that does become very enticing

If Kapanen was worth a first you?d have to think Nylander will command a significant haul.

Heroic Shrimp

#27
Quote from: Bullfrog on September 19, 2020, 02:10:19 PM
Quote from: Frank E on September 19, 2020, 11:24:19 AM
I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

Leetch, I guess, though he was 35 when they got him. If you mean in his prime, probably Salming. I should add that AP is not as good as either Salming or Leetch in their prime.
Supersize my Freedom Fries

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Heroic Shrimp on September 19, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on September 19, 2020, 02:10:19 PM
Quote from: Frank E on September 19, 2020, 11:24:19 AM
I look at it like would I trade Nylander at $7m X 4 years, then he's UFA, for Pietrangelo at $9m X 7 years (when he'd be 37 at contract maturity)?

Given where the Leafs' defense vs. offense is at, I say yes.  Pietrangelo doesn't seem to have any big injury issues, plays 25 minutes per game, scores very well, is RHD, and is a team captain.

So if you ask me if I'd sign Pietrangelo to that contract, and get the proceeds of trading Nylander (futures, maybe a goalie prospect, maybe another great d-man prospect)?  I'm all in.

There's always going to be inherent risks, but Pietrangelo is a pretty solid bet.

I'd make that move. And it really pains me to say that; Nylander is frigging awesome. I'd imagine you'd get a pretty good return for Nylander though.

When's the last time the Leafs have had a defenseman of Pietrangelo's caliber?

Leetch, I guess, though he was 35 when they got him. If you mean in his prime, probably Salming. I should add that AP is not as good as either Salming or Leetch in their prime.
Salming was the Leafs best ever D man. Loved watching him play.

Highlander

Lord I agree, if we had two Salming's on our blue line this coming year, then plan the parade. Too bad they broke the mold with him.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki