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Coronavirus

Started by Highlander, March 03, 2020, 02:10:23 PM

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Nik

We probably shouldn't be advocating that people spend all of their time researching whatever spurious nonsense is spat out by cranks on the internet instead of just listening to advice from actual public health experts.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

hockeyfan1

#16
Public health experts give out the same advice time and again which is what we've already heard — wash hands, avoid touching facial features, wipe surfaces clean, be aware of any changes in your health, etc., etc.

No one is going to individualize a specific plan for each one of us which is why we need to take charge of our health for we know how we feel, and what is best for us to do.

Our immune system is key.  Again, an older person or a very young one, an immune-suppressed individual are at higher risk of disease and viruses.  That is common knowledge to know that our bodies/cells aren't as adept at an older age in compared to when we were younger.  It also makes practical sense to keep fortifying your health so that when you do get sick (from colds, etc.) it won't be so overwhelming in the first place.
I happen to know this for a fact.  There was a time when I caught colds, coughs, etc. easily, long before I ever went to an Integrative MD. 

For the record, Dr. Rona has a practice in Thornhill, is an MD (graduated from Medical School), has been in practice for over 30+ years, has a M.Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.   I credit him for helping me to navigate my autoimmune condition and continue to do so. 
My family physician whom I still go to?  Well, she's nice and empathetic but she doesn't know too much regarding that field.

No one is advocating that Vitamin C or other nutritional supplementations are the be all or end all.  Just a part of a health program in conjunction with whatever other preventive measures the individual is undergoing.

When it comes to times like these with this Coronavirus, individuals like me have to be very careful in not catching anything serious.  My mother & I are taking precautions for ourselves.

Nik


No one ever said snake oil didn't sell.

Personally, my preparations for the virus are largely hoarding related. Laugh if you want but I'm going to be the pudding cup king of our post-apocalyptic wasteland.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

hockeyfan1

Quote from: Nik Bethune on March 08, 2020, 07:07:36 PM

No one ever said snake oil didn't sell.

Personally, my preparations for the virus are largely hoarding related. Laugh if you want but I'm going to be the pudding cup king of our post-apocalyptic wasteland.


Right.  Oh by the way, all that sugar is bad for your health.  That's snake oil for better health to you.

Nik


Consuming the things you're hoarding is entry level piker mentality.

These are commodities to be bartered with. Mainly for fuel from Lord Humungous, then use the leftover for whoever corners the market in human trafficking to put together a post-apocalyptic version of the Leafs. My hunch is I can get Nylander for two snack-pack Butterscotch, Ceci for a half empty store brand fat free chocolate.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: Nik Bethune on March 08, 2020, 07:21:37 PM

Consuming the things you're hoarding is entry level piker mentality.

These are commodities to be bartered with. Mainly for fuel from Lord Humungous, then use the leftover for whoever corners the market in human trafficking to put together a post-apocalyptic version of the Leafs. My hunch is I can get Nylander for two snack-pack Butterscotch, Ceci for a half empty store brand fat free chocolate.

Where do I apply to be the guitarist that rides on the car next to the shooting flames during high speed car chases?  I have my own guitar and face paint.
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Bender

Quote from: Highlander on March 08, 2020, 01:51:17 PM
I really think everyone here has the best intentions and no one should be ridiculed for trying to help.  We are all going through this together. This virus is the great leveller,  it doesn't matter what your background or social status is, its going to touch rich and poor all the same. 
If one of us recommends Vitamin C, then this is good, do you own due diligence before you act (or ridicule).  It only makes sense to take a great Vitamin C supplement, as it is proven to bolster immune systems. When I suggest NAC, instead of ridicule, look at it, do your due diligence and make your own informed decisions.  I am open to all suggestions, as I will investigate all claims and make my own decisions.   Let's help each other instead of playing games of one-upmanship.
How is taking something with a grain of salt because something is entirely unsubstantiated cheapen the discussion or anything of that sort? Personally I think it's morally irresponsible to make unsubstantiated health claims on a message board, period, and if you can't take the skepticism coming, which comes from a place generally of good faith, then I really don't know what to tell you or anyone else who can't take even the most basic level of scrutiny for making that claim.

In closing, an extraordinary claim requires an extraordinary level of evidence. The onus is on the person making the claim to give good evidence from vetted sources before making the claim. People have the right to scrutinize it. And as an aside, as a kid I used to go to a homeopathic doctor because my mom was distrustful of normal doctors. I have a condition where if I don't treat my lungs properly when catching a cold I am almost guaranteed bronchitis. For years I was given a tincture and was told it would work and when it inevitably failed I would be taken to emerg and put on an oxygen mask with Ventolin. Guess what, it worked. Looking back at that I am pretty livid at how irresponsible that level of care I received from that homeopathic doctor was because I was supposed to trust a treatment that didn't follow the best practices at the time. So forgive me for not being ok with something that has circumstantial evidence at best surrounding its efficacy. I've been close to death because of that kind of thing.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Hobbes

#22
When 9999 out of 10000 experts in the field say that [item x] has no appreciable effect on a patient, quoting that 1 remaining Dr Oz-like "expert" isn't helpful. *Usually* what they're recommending isn't directly harmful, but what it can do is give a patient a false sense of security which they might foolishly rely upon instead of carrying out the recommendations of the other 9999 as well.

By all means pump yourself full of anything you want, but don't ignore the overwhelming majority of the *real* experts...you know, the ones who work for the CDC and WHO and who are the front line researchers.
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

princedpw

Ordinary people do not need masks and should not be buying masks.  Doing so will deplete the supply of masks, which are needed by healthcare professionals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html

In general, if someone is promulgating incorrect medical information, it is important to speak up and let people know it is incorrect. Incorrect information about medicine leads to things like people not getting vaccinated and then getting the flu or measles and dying.  Of course, when correcting misinformation, we don't have to be a$$holes.

Hobbes

It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

Nik


I don't think anyone would care if someone came in here and said "I eat 5 bananas a day and I feel great! I think they're the key to good health" because that sort of thing is easy enough to take or leave. I think what rubs some people the wrong way is trying to add the veneer of authority to it with second hand medical endorsements or trying to ascribe specific health benefits to products without medical education or evidence.

Like, as a for instance, I've heard lots of people say that taking vitamin supplements essentially does nothing for you that a balanced diet with a lot of nutrient rich food wouldn't already do. Despite that, because I was raised in kind of a hippy-ish household, I take a daily multi-vitamin. I like taking something that I at least think may help with my health.

But I'd never say, you know, I'm in pretty good health generally so the vitamin must be working or, you know, that it healed me of a specific condition because I don't have the first idea if that's true or not.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

bustaheims

Quote from: Nik Bethune on March 09, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
I don't think anyone would care if someone came in here and said "I eat 5 bananas a day and I feel great! I think they're the key to good health" because that sort of thing is easy enough to take or leave. I think what rubs some people the wrong way is trying to add the veneer of authority to it with second hand medical endorsements or trying to ascribe specific health benefits to products without medical education or evidence.

Like, as a for instance, I've heard lots of people say that taking vitamin supplements essentially does nothing for you that a balanced diet with a lot of nutrient rich food wouldn't already do. Despite that, because I was raised in kind of a hippy-ish household, I take a daily multi-vitamin. I like taking something that I at least think may help with my health.

But I'd never say, you know, I'm in pretty good health generally so the vitamin must be working or, you know, that it healed me of a specific condition because I don't have the first idea if that's true or not.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with advocating for supplements as something that may or may not improve your health. As long as you're not taking too much of any particular substance, on their own, they're unlikely to have a significant negative impact on you.

The problem is the spread of disinformation that comes with situations like this. Can vitamin C improve your health and strengthen your immune system? Sure. Will it have a significant impact on your immunity or ability to fight this particular virus? No.

The best thing we can do is stick to spreading facts that comes from organizations like the WHO, the CDC, and Health Canada, and not signal boost those that comes from less reliable sources.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Bullfrog

Quote from: princedpw on March 09, 2020, 02:16:45 AM
Ordinary people do not need masks and should not be buying masks.  Doing so will deplete the supply of masks, which are needed by healthcare professionals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html

In general, if someone is promulgating incorrect medical information, it is important to speak up and let people know it is incorrect. Incorrect information about medicine leads to things like people not getting vaccinated and then getting the flu or measles and dying.  Of course, when correcting misinformation, we don't have to be a$$holes.

I mostly agree with you, but I do feel we need to be a bit more assertive in our defense of actual science. While it's easy for some to say "this advice is harmless", it's demonstrably NOT harmless. Many people will eschew actual effective treatments because so-and-so told them that megadoses of vitamin C will prevent, cure, or treat a virus. This doesn't just harm this person; it harms everyone else who is affected and/or infected by their virus due to misguided or flat out ignorant "advice."

If Nik wants to waste $8 a month on a multivitamin, that's harmless (except for the danger of him getting too much iron or other minerals).

But saying, "I haven't had a cold in three years because of mega vitamin-D doses" can certainly be harmful.

Bullfrog

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on March 08, 2020, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on March 08, 2020, 12:50:38 PM
good lord, people. Vitamin C will not prevent or treat the coronavirus. Your body needs a certain amount; after that, you're literally pissing money down the drain.

What about silver? That'll help right?



Only if directly injected into the carotid artery.

Hobbes

This is very much worth watching: Last Week Tonight's look at nutritional supplements but also applies to lots of similar questionable medical promoters (plus it's very funny).
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.